Topic: Apple Cinema Display 20" (Read 6225 times)

Ben Rubinstein · « **on:** April 02, 2006, 07:01:15 am »

I'm on the point of buying an Apple Cinema Display 20" screen to go with an upgrade to my system (finally!) from a p4 1.6 with 2 gig ram to a AMD 64 dual core 3000 with 3 gig ram.

A few questions about using this screen with a PC. Firstly are there any video cards that would be recommended. I do nothing but photo editing, no movies, no gaming etc so I need a basic card that will provide the DVI connection, the widescreen capability and preferrably also show the boot up screen which I've heard is an issue with this screen on a PC using some cards. Nothing fancy.

Secondly I'm thinking about keeping my older CRT and running a two screen display, I assume the CRT will plug into the analogue port. As I understand it a two screen display setup is not native to XP, you need a program to run it like a Mac. What is this program (or am I wrong?) and how do I set up the system to run a 2 screen display?

The Cinema Display only provides a brightness control when used on a PC. Is this an issue considering I will be using a Spyder 2 (can't afford anything better at present and I was happy with the original spyder) to calibrate and control the colours? Will I or should I even try to control the screen from the video card software or just let it alone, do the calibration and set the brightness relative to ambient light using a test shot as I've done until now, etc?

I understood from stuff I've read that using XP you can only have one calibration set up on the system. As I would only be using the CD for photo processing and the CRT for filing, invoicing, etc while files process, should this be a problem or will the zany colours on the CRT using the CD's profile drive me mad?

Any help and suggestions appreciated.

allan67 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:13:40 pm »

Hello,

Can't help you with video card selection, but what concerns XP - you don't need any special programme to run double screen system. Multiple screens are supported natively by XP (up to 4 in various positions - horisontal, vertical, matrix...) and they can have different resolution as long as you video card have two separate outputs and supports different settings for each on them.
You'll have to setup the screens in "Display Properties" dialogue -> Settings - just read what's on this page (by clicking on a picture of a screen you activate the settings for it).
As for calibration - that depends on which calibration software you use. I have Monaco EZColor and it is capable on loading correct LUT for each display at bootup. Widows itself uses only one LUT for all screens, but Monaco Loader bypasses this limitation. As a by-thought - don't forget to remove Adobe Gamma Loader from startup folder when using any other calibration software - they conflict on who's going to load which LUT and you (generally) don't have any control on the sequence running startup programmes (unless you want to write your own startup script).

Allan

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:21:27 pm »

Would it cause problems to use 2 seperate cards, or more accurately, the mboards built in video card for the CRT and the video card for the LCD?

Peter McLennan · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:33:14 pm »

Quote

Would it cause problems to use 2 seperate cards, or more accurately, the mboards built in video card for the CRT and the video card for the LCD?
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Of course, even if XP can handle two monitors, you still need either two video cards or a dual-monitor-capable card.
You may or may not be able to assign "Monitor 02" (the secondary monitor) to the motherboard's on-board video. I'd think you'd have to test this.

I've run a Matrox G550 for the last few years, and like you, I do no gaming or movie watching. The G550 has an excellent reputation for display quality, a factor I won't dispute. It's also quite economical. This solution would avoid the on-board video altogether. If video is like audio, the on-board hardware will be not as good as the Matrox display quality.

Running two display resolutions can be a bit annoying at first, but the joys of dual monitors are not to be missed.

Peter

61Dynamic · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:38:19 pm »

You can use any video card that can output to 1680x1050. Just double-check the specs to make sure it supports wide-screen resolutions. On my last PC I was running a GeForce 4 Ti with the ACD.

You won't be running a CRT with the ACD for long. I tried it for a whole hour before it drove me nuts. The differences in tech will make it difficult. The sharpness and brightness of the ACD will make you squint each time you look at the CRT.

Running two displays is native on a PC. It's just that you cannot use separate color profiles for each display without using two separate video cards as Allan mentioned. If you go that rout, make sure both cards use the same chip-set (i.e. Nividia cards or ATI cards) so you don't have driver conflicts.

The ACD only provides a brightness control on PC or Mac and that's all you need. The ACD runs at 7000K. Just set the software to calibrate for 6500K and leave all else alone.

61Dynamic · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:49:49 pm »

Oh, and the ACD might not fully work for your. I had no problems when I tried it but others have. WinACD are open-source drivers for the display that give you full functionality of the monitor on Windows and may be necessary.

Steve Miller · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2006, 02:38:19 pm »

I'm using an ACD 23" on my XP Pro PC. It works perfectly, but I was one of those users that had the problem Daniel mentioned. Sometimes the Brightness controls would freeze up and often times I would have to turn off the monitor by unplugging it. Through the Apple discussion board, I found the WinACD driver highlighted above. Perfect. No shut down or brightness problems, and through the Display Properties functions, I get the translucent Brightness level indicator on screen (though I must admit that I haven't really used that). One feature that is very handy, similar to Mac functionality I believe, is the ability through the driver to lock the brightness "buttons". This is very nice because it's very easy to hit the Brightness- when turning off the display, and accidentally throw off the brightness from the level that you used during calibration/profiling.

Regarding your colorimeter, as long as the Spyder 2 shows you what the luminance is for the display, I think you'll be okay. This is key, however, because I've had to turn my ACD down to about 1/3 brightness to get the luminance to measure 120.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2006, 06:47:49 pm »

What is the brightness value meant to be? Does that not depend on ambient lighting? With my CRT I calibrated the monitor then using my desktop picture (a B&W of my wife with some useful heavy shadows) I turn the brightness down until a certain shadow blocks up. I know from experience that that exact brightness level matches the brightness of the prints I get from my lab and I've found it to be a good way to adjust the brightness of the screen before each batch of processing so that even in the RAW software I get WYSIWYG. It changes of course depending on the level of ambient light. Can I assume that the same would hold true for the ACD and I could still use the brightness controls based on my 'test' image?

pobrien3 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2006, 08:35:12 pm »

I use two ACD 20" monitors on a WinXP box, driven by an ASUS V9560 dual DVI card, calibrated using Monaco Optix Pro. I use PowerStrip (http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm) to create a custom driver for this setup and it works fine. Does anyone have any experience of the WinACD driver vs PowerStrip?

61Dynamic · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:01:26 pm »

Quote

What is the brightness value meant to be? Does that not depend on ambient lighting? With my CRT I calibrated the monitor then using my desktop picture (a B&W of my wife with some useful heavy shadows) I turn the brightness down until a certain shadow blocks up. I know from experience that that exact brightness level matches the brightness of the prints I get from my lab and I've found it to be a good way to adjust the brightness of the screen before each batch of processing so that even in the RAW software I get WYSIWYG. It changes of course depending on the level of ambient light. Can I assume that the same would hold true for the ACD and I could still use the brightness controls based on my 'test' image?
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Ambient light can have an effect on how bright the display can run at. However, having ambient light too bright can increase issues with glare and reflected light since there is more of it. Whenever I mention the optimal luminance of a display, I'm going off of ISO 12646 (I swear I'll have that number memorized by the time these threads are done!) which states 120cd/m2 as optimal for print-output. The standard actually mentions a range of 80cd/m2 (CRT, though I've read ~90cd/m2 is more optimal) to 120cd/m2 (LCD) and also describes an ambient light level of 32lux or lower.

The whole point in the system is to minimize variables for the sake of consistency so that comparing the monitor to test prints is not needed.

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:13:23 pm »

Well some research later I think I can answer my own questions:

The Nvidia GeForce cards from 6200 onwards support both the required resolution and dual screens though I don't think there are two LUT's but then for the price of a Matrox that does I can buy 4 Nvidia cards with ease! Of course having two off the same card should it be necessary means that there arn't chip conflicts. I used to run a AGP card in a motherboard with onboard video, boy did windows not like it! used to crash regularly till I realised what was wrong.

I can run my CRT alongside the LCD without a problem under XP, the Nvidia software provides extensive tools for running a two screen setup (according to their webpage at least! )

Thank you all for your advice and help especially Daniel who pointed me towards the WinACD which I think would have been the last hurdle.

I'm receiving it tomorrow night though it will be a week till I have time to set it up and sort it out, I'll let you know what I think.

61Dynamic · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:21:45 pm »

Steve Miller deserves credit for pointing out the drivers to me originally. Good stuff.

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:27:14 pm »

forgot to add that the bios screen won't show up with these cards, I'm hoping that it will on the CRT and therefore solve the problem. I've emailed the Nvidia support who from the list of questions asked exactly about these issues, seem to really know what they are talking about, no 'um' or 'er', just straight informative answers.

Thanks Steve!

Author Topic: Apple Cinema Display 20" (Read 6225 times)