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Author Topic: Custom icc profile for B&W  (Read 8371 times)

dumainew

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Custom icc profile for B&W
« on: October 22, 2015, 03:56:28 PM »

Hi All,
Learning to print in B&W.
Using an Epson R2880 and PSCC.
Starting off with Epson Luster paper.
If I choose Advanced B&W settings, letting printer manage color, would a custom ICC profile be advisable ?
And if I don't have a custom profile how, or should I even bother, to soft proof the image?
Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
Richard
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digitaldog

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 04:12:05 PM »

No, ABW is it's own black box, no ICC path. You can't soft proof.
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Andrew Rodney
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 04:41:00 PM »

My understanding is that you can build a profile with QTR for soft proofing. Of course, it will only be valid for the settings that you use to print the target.
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dumainew

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 05:17:02 PM »

DD- Does you mean I can forego any soft proofing ?
Jeff- Does QTR make sense without the hardware to go with it ?
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 05:47:48 PM »

To build a softproof profile, you will need an i1Pro. QTR comes with tools to let you build ICC profiles. As to whether QTR is a goer without an i1 Pro, I think that many people use it that way. I just couldn't do it.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 08:20:51 PM by Jeff-Grant »
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wattsies

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2015, 06:11:46 AM »

DD- Does you mean I can forego any soft proofing ?
Jeff- Does QTR make sense without the hardware to go with it ?

I have had profiles built for ABW for the Epson P800 by Les Walkling in Melbourne.  I print through QTR Print Tool.  They allow soft proofing (provided you have a profile for any particular tint setting) and are a considerable improvement on the default.
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JohnBrew

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2015, 07:01:57 AM »

Check out Eric Chan's ICC profiles for Epson.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2015, 07:50:58 AM »

This topic has been discussed many times over the past several years.  The only way you can use a custom ABW profile is through Windows; Mac OS will not let you assign a profile in the ABW mode.  Eric Chan stopped making ABW profiles about the time that Apple closed off that route for profiling.  OTR is pretty easy to work with and you can use either a Color Munki or an i1 to create ABW profiles using either a 21 or 51 B/W patch chart.  I use Argyll CMS to create the patch set and read them.  You can soft proof using such profiles.
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digitaldog

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 10:44:48 AM »

DD- Does you mean I can forego any soft proofing ?
It does, at least unless you want to go though 3rd party software hoops. Personally I'd just the Advanced B&W for dead nuts neutral prints, or an actual, good quality ICC Profile for sending RGB "toned" (not neutral) B&W which you could soft proof but it probably is mostly unnecessary. KISS.
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Andrew Rodney
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wattsies

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2015, 04:58:08 PM »

This topic has been discussed many times over the past several years.  The only way you can use a custom ABW profile is through Windows; Mac OS will not let you assign a profile in the ABW mode.  Eric Chan stopped making ABW profiles about the time that Apple closed off that route for profiling.  OTR is pretty easy to work with and you can use either a Color Munki or an i1 to create ABW profiles using either a 21 or 51 B/W patch chart.  I use Argyll CMS to create the patch set and read them.  You can soft proof using such profiles.

In QTR Print Tool in the Colour Management section you select Application Managed, tick the ABW box and then select the custom profile in the box beneath the two.  The custom profile can also be used for soft proofing.
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JohnBrew

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2015, 07:43:32 AM »

This topic has been discussed many times over the past several years.  The only way you can use a custom ABW profile is through Windows; Mac OS will not let you assign a profile in the ABW mode.  Eric Chan stopped making ABW profiles about the time that Apple closed off that route for profiling.  OTR is pretty easy to work with and you can use either a Color Munki or an i1 to create ABW profiles using either a 21 or 51 B/W patch chart.  I use Argyll CMS to create the patch set and read them.  You can soft proof using such profiles.
Eric may have stopped making new profiles but the old ones are still valid for specific papers for the 3800 & 3880.

dumainew

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 10:28:32 AM »

Is it true that split toning and ABW in the Epson printer pipeline are incompatible ?
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TylerB

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 11:53:54 AM »

yup
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dumainew

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 01:13:39 PM »

Thank Ye !
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RMW

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 09:59:33 AM »

Thanks all for your help.
Have decided to go the ICC route. Please suggest a good affordable custom ICC profile maker who's patient with beginners like me.
Thanks again.
Richard
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IanBarber

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2016, 12:08:03 PM »

This topic has been discussed many times over the past several years.  The only way you can use a custom ABW profile is through Windows; Mac OS will not let you assign a profile in the ABW mode.  Eric Chan stopped  OTR is pretty easy to work with and you can use either a Color Munki or an i1 to create ABW profiles using either a 21 or 51 B/W patch chart.


I would move to QTR if I could find a good Color Munki Tutorial

unesco

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2016, 03:56:33 AM »


I would move to QTR if I could find a good Color Munki Tutorial
Hi,
What would you like to know?
I use QTR with ColorMunki on daily basis and it doesn't need any special tutorial other than those available over the net. The key is to understand how all things work with QTR, than it is easy with any spectro.
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IanBarber

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2016, 04:00:37 AM »

What I would like to know is ....


A step by step instruction how to to create a curve for a paper type using the Color Munki from start to finish.



unesco

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2016, 05:55:00 AM »

You can use manual/tutorials available on QTR web page. There is a lot of content, but curve creation, at least if you use original inks, is fairly simple:

1) print ink separation target for all of your channels (in fact black and grays would be enough at the beginning) for given % of ink limit (which you can estimate by printing the same for 100% first and then finding by CM the darkest black while it stops getting more black)
2) measure the darkest patch of each gray in relation to black (you can even do it with scanner, since no absolute values are needed, only relative) - with ColorMunki you use spot metering
3) put those values in the curve creation tool (for beginners by modification of some default paper curves included in QTR)
4) print 21 or 51 step wedge with those settings (e.g. CM 21 chevron-like tiff is available in QTR)
5) measure the values of the wedge - by spot or strip measuring (writing down L* values menually or by exporting the whole measured CM palletd to cxf and then importing to Excel using xlm import macro easy to find on the web)
6) put the values into linearisation tab, and that's all.

If you want to change tint of the print, you must experiment.
In my opinion, the most important is to know how QTR works, more than having step-by-step instruction for given spectro - QTR documentation is far from ideal and it leaves number of actions for aware user to experiment.
hope it helps
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IanBarber

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Re: Custom icc profile for B&W
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2016, 06:05:26 AM »

Thank you


For 1) are you referring to the inksep.psd file
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