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Author Topic: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum  (Read 10634 times)

eyedear

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Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« on: October 22, 2015, 11:25:30 am »

WOndering if there is any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum. would love t see some images and a long term review of the system
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Gigi

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 01:20:58 am »

Ye, there are a few of us around. Have been using an AFI II 7 for about 5 years....with little difficulties. Works well, good files, easy to use. Rotating screen is a delight, sorry its not on other gear or backs. It really is nice to have.

What else would you like to know? Am on the road and can't post pics of any quality, but if its important, will do later.

Geoff
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Geoff

eyedear

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2015, 10:45:41 am »

hi thanks Geoff for the update. was just wondering how is the reliability and the consistency with the tethering to computer is it stable can you do it on a Windows machine instead of a mac. Overall image quality compare to current generation sensors such as the IQ and credo

would love to hear more
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parkn123

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 09:21:07 pm »

I use Leaf Afi ll 10R with my Hy6mod2 for 2 years . I seldom tethering to computer but also have made trial for calibrate the lenses offset setting , no problems . For connecting to PC, I found that it is diffcult to find PC with firewire ports .  Also , newer Macs also lack of FW . So I kept an older Macbook pro.

The following is my link  which post my AFi ll images ( those landscape mainly) .

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54877744@N03/albums
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:24:13 pm by parkn123 »
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eyedear

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 05:05:39 am »

thanks for the sharing really nice photos you have there. and the image quality from the AFI-II i really like I think i know what i am getting thanks
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Gigi

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2015, 10:12:10 am »

Have been very happy with the AFI II 7 back on a Hy6 - it works well, connects practically flawlessly to the camera, and has great user interface. The electronic interface to the camera has been pretty much seamless, with the occasional glitch taken care of by a restart. Usually any problems are from low battery levels, easily fixed with a fresh battery. I've rarely tethered, and had problems with it, but I think these are due more to a bad hub and cables than the back. Again, I rarely tether, and honestly haven't spent enough time to figure out what isn't working. But it has worked in shorter bursts (says up to an hour) without flaws.

Things to like about the system: the AFI (or Hy6) has a lot of flexibility, and can be profiled in any one of a different ways. For lightweight use, a single lens, WLF, and film back work well. Also the digital back can be used as a heavyish walk around - had good luck with a monopod, shooting down to 1/40 without difficulties (60mm lens) and even as low as 1/20th with mirror lock up, and a burst of three shots, one will usually come out. That makes it able to shoot into shadows fairly well, still around ISO 100. Or it can be set up with prism, larger lenses, and on a tripod for more serious work. Easily configurable.
 
Focus offset allows tuning for each lens, which is quite effective, and the mod.2 will save these but only for AF lenses. its easy enough to keep a list of the offsets on your phone. Easy to change, and well worthwhile. A 150 telexenar, thought to be soft, dialed in sharp and is a favorite lens.

Lenses - The lens range is quite extensive, but you need to be clear on AF vs MF lenses. I prefer the MF lenses, for flexibility, and cost benefits. The focus confirmation is dead on, so its pretty easy to use the MF lenses. One AF lens (say the 80) with the 1.4 TX gives some pretty good traveling flexibility too. And its fast. I've been less interested in the 50 AF or the 180AF due to size and mass, but they are good lenses. In general, all the Schneider lenses are excellent, and compare well to the current tech lens, the only exception being the 40mm which is a bit soft on the edges. All others are strong edge to edge, the distortion (if any) is simple barrel, not the more complex mustache of the Zeiss. I have little familiarity with the Zeiss lenses, which are a generation behind the Schneiders, but more likely comparable to the Hassy versions, loved by many.

Some of these lenses are really very good, tack sharp, consistent color and look - the 300mm is a "gotcha" lens, hard to use, but wonderfully sharp when you get it all together. The 90 is a standout and gives nothing up in comparison to a Rodie 90 HRW. Favorite is the 60mm Curtagon. All pretty much available from Eric Hiss (Rolleiflex USA), typically used.

The only shortcomings (IMHO) are the lack of good shifting options and the weight/mass. Shifting is via the 55mm PCS boat anchor, pretty good at f11 or 16, but not small by any means. The eight of the system is not ideal for traveling with many lenses, but pack a second lens, and some batteries, and its OK. A bit awkward in the shape, but very easy to use. The mod 2 has some upgrades, but isn't critical. The first version works just fine for me.

The ergonomics of the camera are well considered. The controls are easy, the level of electronic integration and flexibility was ahead of its time, but is by now standard. There are a myriad of options, most of which we never use - such as focus trap, bracketing options, and shutter delay (so there is no need to carry a cable release) a bunch of others, so the camera can really do what you want. I tend to use it pretty basically, and like it for that. The MLU is right at hand, so its easy to set for the shot, and then lock up the mirror quickly and shoot. At low speeds, the leaf shutters just have no vibration. On a borrowed Manfrotto monopod (with three little legs), the leaf shut and delayed shutter allowed 8'" exposures!

The Leaf digital back - it does pretty much all you would ask. The rotating sensor is quite nice, no flaws - just don't rotate it while the back is processing. I prefer the 33mp back due to its faster processing, longer battery life, but might upgrade to a Credo 60 if one is available (as the last, most recent upgrade path for the AFI mount). Use C1 for processing. Sometimes I've picked up a bit of a color tinge on one edge of the back, probably due to overheating, but its rare, and only happens at a time. No centerfold issues, bad pixels etc. The back mounts well, but is fussier on third party mounts for tech cameras. Had to change the prongs from the longer pointy ones to shorter stubby ones (provided by Leaf to fit in tech camera mounts) but easily done at home with a socket wrench and strong nerves.     

Hope this answers your questions. If you have more, let me know, or talk with Eric. He's quite knowledgeable and very helpful.

Geoff

PS - many of these were AFI shots, although some with film...
http://www.gigi-photos.com/f503220439
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 03:34:11 pm by Gigi »
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Geoff

EricWHiss

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2015, 02:22:08 am »

I have the AFi-ii 12 and was shooting it before I became dealer, and before the Hy6 I had a 6008AF with a number of different digital backs.   Geoff did a great job covering things above, but happy to answer questions.  You can find some pictures with the Rolleiflex on my personal site and also on the Rolleiflex USA page on flickr
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Rolleiflex USA

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 04:39:40 pm »

Another Rolleiflex Hy6 and Leaf AFi-II 7 user here. Quite happy with both the film backs, which I put on the Hy6, and the digital back mounted on the identical Leaf body. I admit having used film backs much more than I do the digital back, however.
The only "downside" to the AFi-II 7 is that the sensor is not square (remember the PhaseOne P20 for Rolleiflex 6008) but 4:3 rectangle.
My only regret was perhaps not jumping on the AFi-II 10 at the time but opting for the 7 instead. Not so much for resolution as the 7 offers ample (33 mio pixel) and provides rich images. But rather for the ultra-wide sensor, which is particular useful for landscapes (2:3).
Cheers,
Pascal
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yashima

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2016, 10:51:19 pm »

Hi everyone,

I'm seriously thinking in jumping on the AFi/Hy6 train. Have always loved Rolleiflex TLRs (own 3), definitely a jewel of medium format mechanical instrument. A few questions for the veteran users:

1. AF is quite important for me, my eye sight is not great. I have however lived quite comfortably with Contax 645 AF. How would you compare AFi AF to Contax's? I really like the idea of AF offset.

2. As I understand, the AF lenses for AFi is optically pretty much the same as older lenses for 6000 series, is that correct? How would you compare it to the SK LS lenses for Phase One system? What are the outstanding lenses in the lens line?

3. As I understand, there is only one service centre remaining in Germany. How long will they keep the service going, another 5, 10 years? And do you feel the service fee is reasonable, or expensive, considering its exclusivity?

4. Is there any way to use Rollei X-act2 lenses on the Hy6? I'm planning to use the Hy6/AFi in conjunction with the Rollei X-act2, do you have any advise for this combo?


5. What in your opinion is the reason for its demise? I was really excited about it when it first came out, but it just never took off. It feel very much like the story of Contax system (which I also love).




Thanks and kind regards.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:14:31 pm by yashima »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 12:54:31 am »

1. AF is quite important for me, my eye sight is not great. I have however lived quite comfortably with Contax 645 AF. How would you compare AFi AF to Contax's? I really like the idea of AF offset.

The AF on the Contax is like a volkwagon bus - it will get you there but…   The Hy6 autofocus was improved with version 3.10 firmware so any model with that or higher is actually pretty decent.  I went to a Phase XF introduction held by Bear Images here in San Francisco and compared my Hy6 Mod2 with 80mm lens to their XF body with 80mm lens and was surprised to see that the Hy6 was faster than the new Phase one.  But to be honest - no medium format compares to DSLR auto focus at the moment.  If its better than the new Phase one camera then it will be better than your Contax too.  The AF Offset is really great - and auto focus can be very accurate.     I would fail my reply if I didn't point out that the viewfinder of the Rolleiflex is really big and excellent and it can really help with focus and composition.  There are four different finders actually, 45 deg, 90 deg, WLF with pop up magnifier, and the lupe finder.   For me one of the biggest differentiators that Medium format has is the viewfinder.  You won't find that with 4/3rds or DSLR's.  And I do think the view with the Hy6 is among the best if not the best of all MF.

2. As I understand, the AF lenses for AFi is optically pretty much the same as older lenses for 6000 series, is that correct? How would you compare it to the SK LS lenses for Phase One system? What are the outstanding lenses in the lens line?

The factory never actually gave me a direct answer on this. Clearly some of the lenses appear to be different - the AFD 180mm lens is actually slightly shorter than 180 and clearly a different set of optics - but very very good.  I've posted a full res 80mp sample image on my Flickr page.   I can't make a direct comparison to Phase lenses since I only shot their 80 and 120 with 80mp backs, but my impression was that the Rollei schneider were better lenses and they also have more coverage. Surly some of the newer lenses from Phase are excellent though, as are some of the hasselblad lenses, and I never had a Contax with an 80mp digital back to know how those perform, but I hear people really like them.  I doubt you'd regret moving to the rolleiflex lenses.

3. As I understand, there is only one service centre remaining in Germany. How long will they keep the service going, another 5, 10 years? And do you feel the service fee is reasonable, or expensive, considering its exclusivity?

Right now lenses can be serviced several places besides just at the factory which is open again for service under their new name DW-Photo GmbH.   Paepke in Germany, and LaFlex in California, Key Camera in Colorado, and Rollei Hensel in NJ to name a few places.

4. Is there any way to use Rollei X-act2 lenses on the Hy6? I'm planning to use the Hy6/AFi in conjunction with the Rollei X-act2, do you have any advise for this combo?

You can use some of the Hy6 lenses on the X-Act2 with the lens adapter - this is a front lens panel with the lens mount and electrical contacts.  You then still need the lens control S to operate the lenses.  I have both the lens adapter and lens control S available in my used section now.
Another route is to use the behind the lens shutter adapter to use some optics like m39 enlarging lenses on both X-Act2 and Hy6.   You can not use lenses in copal type shutters with front and rear groups on the Hy6 though.

5. What in your opinion is the reason for its demise? I was really excited about it when it first came out, but it just never took off. It feel very much like the story of Contax system (which I also love).

The company CEO / CFO explain their failure by being under capitalized.  The volume in all of medium format is low, but DHW was really the niche low volume high quality camera producer.   It's a very tough market anyhow, and when your sales are low the fixed costs like rent and payroll become a burden with higher percentage of your revenue, and you purchase raw stock and parts in smaller quantities at higher prices. Then there is no budget left for marketing and PR and that causes the situation to become worse.  I have more thoughts but will save those for private discussions.

The products themselves are excellent.   I have always felt with proper PR and marketing from the company, backed up by regional service and easily available information they would have done much better. 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:13:59 am by EricWHiss »
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Rolleiflex USA

rolleiflexpages

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 02:54:23 am »

I think Eric answered to your questions or concerns, but let me add a thought or two.

The Schneider-Kreuznach AF and AFD lenses are generally to be preferred over the manual Zeiss lenses for identical focal lengths as they have a more modern design. You actually cannot fault one of the Schneider lenses at all (all made in Germany by the way unlike today's Schneider-Kreuznach for Phase One). Is there a difference between AF and AFD other than the loss of aperture ring on the AFD? Brochures and official speak will tell you that the AFD ones are taken from within the top layer of lenses (sample variation) that in any case do all correspond to specifications. I was, however, privately told by someone inside the company that this is marketing speak and that, for practical purposes, there is no difference  between AF and AFD in terms of optical quality. This is why I personally prefer the AF lenses as they still have the aperture ring on the lens. A case of more is better for the same (and often less) money. If you wish to use the lenses on the 6008 AF system, then you need to stick to AF lenses as that older camera requires the manual aperture ring on the lens to set the f-stop anyway.

The autofocus on version 3 of the firmware of the Hy6 and AFi systems is really good and a vast improvement over the version 2 firmware. Beware that not all Hy6 series can be upgraded to the latest firmware. Check my web page for details on older series.

I have not found servicing on these camera systems to be of a premium nature compared to other ones. I do compare with Leica, however. But I am sure that it is not out of line compared to other professional camera systems.

The major issue with DW Photo right now, seems to be their unresponsiveness when dealing with them directly. Emails often remain unanswered and calling often is your only option. That has actually got worse compared to the old Franke & Heidecke or DHW Fototechnik. I guess this is the price to pay when you deal with a very small company, who's clearly not prioritizing on external communication.

Pascal

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Neil Folberg

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 06:54:31 am »

I will just add that I recently serviced a Rolleiflex 40mm f3.5 Schneider lens at Jos. Schneider Optics in Germany. They will service optics but not electronics; that is the lens must be in perfect working order and if just the optics need adjustment they will do it. Which is what I needed. And they did a great job.

Also, since the issue comes up from time-to-time, I just used a Leaf AFi-ii (aka Rollei Hy6) in sub-freezing weather, down to -15 degrees Centigrade and both the camera and Leaf Aptus 12 back performed well when my fingers were failing. The updating of the image on the back was sluggish but I could see the histogram on the camera handle and the images were just fine.

Neil

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rolleiflexpages

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 10:18:38 am »


Also, since the issue comes up from time-to-time, I just used a Leaf AFi-ii (aka Rollei Hy6) in sub-freezing weather, down to -15 degrees Centigrade and both the camera and Leaf Aptus 12 back performed well when my fingers were failing. The updating of the image on the back was sluggish but I could see the histogram on the camera handle and the images were just fine.

Neil

Interesting observation, Neil. I have had issues with temperatures hovering around zero degrees celsius in Iceland, and that was not even with digital back but with a film back. The camera kept on switching itself on and off. First the AF failed altogether, probably it requires most power (not a big deal as one can still focus manually) but then later also the entire system. DHW was never able to fully replicate the issue, although they had received several complaints. In their defense, the camera's specifications mention 0 degrees celsius as minimum temperature. But it is quite annoying nevertheless. So, keeping the camera (battery) warm is the thing to do.
Pascal
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yashima

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 10:04:08 pm »


Thank you very much Pascal and Eric, I feel much more reassured. It really seems to be a perfect system, apart from the lack of a good true wide lens (28-35mm).

I agree that the viewfinder is the most distinguishing feature of MF, thats why I don't think I can ever live with an EVF (35mm or MF, if there ever be one). Is there much light loss with the 90 degree finder? I have found they are very difficult to find though.

I have lined up a Hy6 kit now, however most likely to be of older firmware. Is sending to  DW-Photo the only way to get it updated now? And is there any cost associated with this?

Yashima
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Gigi

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 11:31:18 pm »

Interesting observation, Neil. I have had issues with temperatures hovering around zero degrees celsius in Iceland, and that was not even with digital back but with a film back. The camera kept on switching itself on and off. First the AF failed altogether, probably it requires most power (not a big deal as one can still focus manually) but then later also the entire system. DHW was never able to fully replicate the issue, although they had received several complaints. In their defense, the camera's specifications mention 0 degrees celsius as minimum temperature. But it is quite annoying nevertheless. So, keeping the camera (battery) warm is the thing to do.
Pascal

I've shot with mine in the cold, c. 20º F, or say -5ºto -10ºC, with little issue. There can be some funky things with power and sometimes some minor elec things get a bit odd with exposure settings, so I just go to manual settings and work from there. Also, with the leaf back, you can get the double-sized batteries, and that pretty much takes care of any power issues. While a bit big and heavy, its nice not to have to change batteries.

You might find this of interest: http://www.gigi-photos.com/hy6.pdf

FYI - also taken mine into Amazon jungle, mountain hikes, etc. Worked fine!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 11:48:19 pm by Gigi »
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Geoff

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 06:05:23 pm »

Thank you very much Pascal and Eric, I feel much more reassured. It really seems to be a perfect system, apart from the lack of a good true wide lens (28-35mm).

I agree that the viewfinder is the most distinguishing feature of MF, thats why I don't think I can ever live with an EVF (35mm or MF, if there ever be one). Is there much light loss with the 90 degree finder? I have found they are very difficult to find though.

I have lined up a Hy6 kit now, however most likely to be of older firmware. Is sending to  DW-Photo the only way to get it updated now? And is there any cost associated with this?

Yashima

Updating to the latest firmware requires sending the camera body (not a digital back) to DW Photo. You may want to contact them first to get a quote and turnaround time. You can update to FW 2.11 yourself if you have the Rolleiflex or Sinar Hy6, and up to FW 2.13 on the Leaf AFi (but read the specifics on my web pages regarding which software version to use). FW 3.10A, the latest on the Mod1 camera, requires not only a software but also a hardware upgrade, which is why it has to be sent in. You could of course also opt to update your Mod1 camera body to Mod2 specifications.
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rolleiflexpages

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 06:12:26 pm »


I have lined up a Hy6 kit now, however most likely to be of older firmware. Is sending to  DW-Photo the only way to get it updated now? And is there any cost associated with this?

Yashima

Some ideas about pricing that I got from DHW Fototechnik (before DW Photo):
The cost for upgrading a Mod1 to a Mod2 Hy6 body is 738 euro (net) (quote from Jan 2013).
The cost for upgrading a Hy6 Mod1 to the latest firmware 3.10A is 289 euro (net) (2010).
Modifying the battery of the Hy6 to take Leaf type batteries instead of Sinar type is 120 euro (net) (2010).
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Theodoros

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2016, 05:29:19 pm »

Thank you very much Pascal and Eric, I feel much more reassured. It really seems to be a perfect system, apart from the lack of a good true wide lens (28-35mm).

I agree that the viewfinder is the most distinguishing feature of MF, thats why I don't think I can ever live with an EVF (35mm or MF, if there ever be one). Is there much light loss with the 90 degree finder? I have found they are very difficult to find though.

I have lined up a Hy6 kit now, however most likely to be of older firmware. Is sending to  DW-Photo the only way to get it updated now? And is there any cost associated with this?

Yashima

Congrats on your choice... Just one thing to add that you may find useful to know... In less than 6 months, there will be a Rollei lens to Contax 645 adapter in the market that will allow full interface communication for both aperture and leaf shutter between lenses and body (Contax does have leaf shutter compatibility provision through the CPU contacts). The adapter will have an "aperture" ring on it, which will allow (electronic) use of aperture for the Rollei lenses that don't have aperture ring and an extra "lock" position for the lenses that do have one, so that their aperture ring will be functional... All AF (for AF lenses only) and modes will work on the Contax too... Another adapter for Rollei lenses on Leica S and another for Hasselblad H bodies is highly considered.
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Wim van Velzen

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2016, 05:59:00 pm »

And for Rollei to Pentax 645?
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Theodoros

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Re: Any Leaf AFi II user left in the forum
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2016, 06:14:48 pm »

And for Rollei to Pentax 645?

Unfortunately not, the P645 controls aperture mechanically via a lever on the side of the mount (much like the Nikon cameras do with Nikor D-series lenses) and additionally its mount is too far from the sensor than other 645 cameras are and thus leaves little space for an adapter that would house electronics within the available space.
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