Buying my first printer

[Wawe]

I’m an enthusiast photographer, have owned a DSLR (currently D800) for about three years now and have so far only presented my work online. Recently I’ve found myself more and more interested in printing my pictures and hanging them on the walls at home etc.

So, in the near future, I’m looking to buy a quality printer and am now asking for advice in making the right purchase for my needs. As noted, I have pretty much zero experience or knowledge in printing apart from what I’ve read online.

I mostly shoot landscapes, including (single row) panoramas, so being able to print on fairly large paper sizes, perhaps on paper rolls, too, would be a requirement. And considering the large prints, the maximum resolution should probably be on the larger side as well. Also, it would be nice to be able to print on both multiple types of paper and, say, canvas, too.

Importantly, I do not plan to print very regularly, probably sometimes not even once a month, so I’m looking for a printer that will not cause problems if not used all the time.

At this point I have no strict budget planned for my purchase, but I think I’ll be able to spend up to some thousand (USD) on the printer alone. I’m also well aware that the prints themselves (paper and ink, that is) will be a significant factor in the total costs, but any information on some average prices or price per print determinants would be appreciated so that I could get a better picture of the expenses.

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Larry Heath]

I’ve not used anything besides Epson printers since the 4000 came out and really have had no reason to consider other brands. I’d advise getting as large a printer as you feel you can afford. Even if you at present don’t think you have need or desire to print large, I am guessing that will change.

So, the three I’d look at are the Epson 3880, 7880 and 9880 used. Yes Epson has newer models out there, but my feelings are that these newer printers, in particular the print head technology, for certain people, read low use, can be problematic. These three printer offer great quality images and not nearly the level of clog issues that seem to be associated with the newer Epson printers.  These printers, bought as used, allow a significantly reduced buy in and possible it allows for a larger printer as a trade off against price. These printers have a large number of sources for reasonably priced replacement/repair/maintenance parts as well as the easy availability of technical documents and programs needed to maintain them.

If you feel the task of repairing and or maintaining a used printer is beyond your abilities or have other constraints then it is pretty simple, buy a new printer, any manufacture will do, as I don’t think there are any real significant differences in quality, of the machines or of the images they produce, but make sure to get the extended warranty and then you can let the printer tech sort the details out for you.  When the extended warranty runs out just buy a new printer and start over.

[JeanMichel]

Hi,
Your first investment might be to buy the Camera to Print video tutorial from Lula. For a few dollars and a bit of time you will get quite a bit of information that will guide you in deciding on the type of printing you are prepared to do and if buying a small or large printer makes sense to you. And, yes, clogging is a real issue with some Epson printers.
Jean-Michel

[alain]

...
Importantly, I do not plan to print very regularly, probably sometimes not even once a month, so I’m looking for a printer that will not cause problems if not used all the time.
...

If you're only thinking about one print a month and do landscape work, I would advice you NOT to buy a printer.  I would look into "pro" labs or fine art printers in you're region.

Most landscape work does tend to be better on larger prints and you're D800 can deliver the files to make big prints.  A 17" by 24" (42x63cm) photo in a larger mat seems to me the minimum size for a vista, 24" by 36"  (60x90cm) can be done without a mat around it.

All 24" or more printers love to print at least one or two times a week, so they seem out of the question.

A good second hand epson 3880 could be a viable option, especially if it has printed quite regulary.   


Alain   

[BobShaw]

If you're only thinking about one print a month and do landscape work, I would advice you NOT to buy a printer.  I would look into "pro" labs or fine art printers in you're region. 

+1
They are expensive to buy, expensive to run and they use ink just sitting there.
The learning curve is steep. Printing is a science.

There first thing to decide if you press on anyway is the platoon width.
If you are printing once a month then get an A4 and play with that for a while before you shell out serious money.
I am not sure what difference landscapes make, but mine are all panoramas anyway so you can get a lot of print on a fairly narrow width.

[Wawe]

Thanks everyone!

Recognizing the associated costs and the "trouble" I need to go through to learn the color management part and so on, I think I'll still pursue this because for me getting the image on paper would be the last step completing the creative process, which I would prefer to do myself.

As for the printing size, 17" seems like the most appropriate choice for me. After doing some more research I understood that going wider than that would cost me significantly more. Please do correct me if I'm wrong on this, because if expenses were no issue I would, of course, like to be able to print as wide as possible.

Given the 17" width and also my requirement to be able print on rolls, I'm now seriously considering the Epson SC P800. Has anyone got experience on this printer? I would especially be interested in hearing about the possible issues related to using the printer infrequently, which I think might be the key issue in my case based on the comments I've received.

Again, given that the central problem in my case would probably be not using the printer so often, I need to work around this somehow. Could I be able to avoid this issue if I printed at least, say, once every two weeks (with the P800)? I think I could do this without printing something completely useless, because occasionally I also shoot friends and family, who would probably have use for (smaller) prints of some of these pictures. If this would work as a solution, would it matter if I printed in B&W or would it have to be a color print every time to use the ink from all of the different colors in the cartridge set?

[Wawe]

Hi,
Your first investment might be to buy the Camera to Print video tutorial from Lula. For a few dollars and a bit of time you will get quite a bit of information that will guide you in deciding on the type of printing you are prepared to do and if buying a small or large printer makes sense to you. And, yes, clogging is a real issue with some Epson printers.
Jean-Michel

Thanks, I'll definitely have a closer look at the tutorial when I have the time. It seems to have received a lot of positive feedback.

[BobShaw]

There first thing to decide if you press on anyway is the platoon width.

Don't you love technology.
That would be "The first thing to decide if you press on anyway is the platen width."

Sounds like you are looking at the P800. I currently have the 3880 and it will probably be my next printer.
You probably won't hear a lot of experiences as it's only new.

[Pete Berry]

Thanks, I'll definitely have a closer look at the tutorial when I have the time. It seems to have received a lot of positive feedback.

Wawe, for a fully informed decision you should also look at the Canon 17" iPF5100, which has an excellent track record, and ALL the pro features: vacuum paper transport, roll feed (max. 50 foot images!), and full-time glossy (PK) and matte (MK) blacks, with totally transparent switching, and no ink cost with switch. Also, a superb 16-bit PS printing plug-in to get the most benefit from your RAW 16-bit ProPhoto RGB images.

Pete

[enduser]

There's a completely new range of Canon printers of various widths coming out very soon - they are already being shown in mockup form at trade shows.

The Canons are far less operationally fussy than Epsons but have high print head costs. If the head costs are significantly lower in the new models, they will be very competitive. Wait and see what they offer before jumping in.

[Pete Berry]

There's a completely new range of Canon printers of various widths coming out very soon - they are already being shown in mockup form at trade shows.

The Canons are far less operationally fussy than Epsons but have high print head costs. If the head costs are significantly lower in the new models, they will be very competitive. Wait and see what they offer before jumping in.

Good idea, but mock-up to market "very soon"? Doubtful!

I've had two iPF's - a 5000 in '07, replaced in '12 when the heads failed with a 5100, whose cost was equal to the $900 retail cost of the two replacement heads and $600 for the 12 "starter" 90 ml carts (replacement carts 130 ml). Going strong for three years now, with total freedom from nozzle checks and forced cleanings.

Pete

[r010159]

Wawe, for a fully informed decision you should also look at the Canon 17" iPF5100, which has an excellent track record, and ALL the pro features: vacuum paper transport, roll feed (max. 50 foot images!), and full-time glossy (PK) and matte (MK) blacks, with totally transparent switching, and no ink cost with switch. Also, a superb 16-bit PS printing plug-in to get the most benefit from your RAW 16-bit ProPhoto RGB images.

Pete

I agree. I have been doing some research and found Canon to be a worthy choice. If I were to get a printer with a format larger than my nice 3880, I would give Canon very serious consideration.

Bob

[BobShaw]

I don't know what printers sell for in other parts of the world, but the prices here in Australia from the same store that sells both are:
Epson P800  $1889 (plus roll attachment)
Epson 4900 $2995 (real workhorse model but you have to use it a lot)
Canon IPF5100 $4255

They are all the same size at 17". I have only used Epson in large format and that is unlikely to change soon.

[Ernst Dinkla]

I don't know what printers sell for in other parts of the world, but the prices here in Australia from the same store that sells both are:
Epson P800  $1889 (plus roll attachment)
Epson 4900 $2995 (real workhorse model but you have to use it a lot)
Canon IPF5100 $4255

They are all the same size at 17". I have only used Epson in large format and that is unlikely to change soon.

Be aware that there is a new Canon 17" wide shown on shows.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/printers/canon_news.html

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Jager]

The Epson P800 was only just introduced this past summer.  So there is little evidence to suggest whether it will be as reliable under infrequent print regimens as were its predecessors (3880 and 3800).  It will be a year or more before we really know.

That said, its core head design remains largely the same as those steadfast predecessors and we can speculate that it probably will be reliable with episodic print sessions. 

There are several threads here that discuss the P800, including a full review by Mark Segal.  A quick search will pull those up.

I own the P800 (along with the 3880) and highly recommend it.  I'm biased towards Epson simply because they've long been the elephant in the room with respect to high-end photographic inkjet printing - and by virtue of that I'm very familiar with their products, profiles, workflow, etc.  If I were just starting out printing I would most definitely give the Canon lineup a close look.

Finally, as a photographer who philosophically believes that any good image isn't complete until it lives in a physical, tangible form, I'm a big fan of printing and highly encourage it.  But just as optical printing in the darkroom was always practiced by many, mastered by few... so it is in the digital realm.  There's a lot more to it than just hooking up a new printer, loading the right profile, and clicking 'print.'  But it's a lot of fun and the results are well worth it.  Looking forward to hearing of your experiences.  Welcome to the forum.

[Wawe]

Thanks again.

I'm in no hurry with the purchase so if the new Canon 17" is going to be introduced in, say, the next quarter, I'll probably consider it, too.

I've also already read the P800 review by Mark Segal but at this point don't quite understand all of it. Still have a lot of reading to do before I'm going to buy the printer, let alone papers etc...

Jager, you mentioned having owned the printer for some months now. Have you been using it on a daily basis or do you have experience on how it works if left unused for some time?

If using the printer intermittently were to be an issue, how about the workaround I mentioned in my previous post? I've also heard that a possible solution could be printing an alignment test every week or so. Can anyone tell if this approach would lead to a huge waste of ink or should I do it just in case (if the ink usage on these test pages is very marginal)?

[Dr Tone]

If you use Lightroom and/or Photoshop you could look at the book "The Digital Print" by Jeff Schewe.  Call sign "schewe" on these forums.

[Jager]

Jager, you mentioned having owned the printer for some months now. Have you been using it on a daily basis or do you have experience on how it works if left unused for some time?

If using the printer intermittently were to be an issue, how about the workaround I mentioned in my previous post? I've also heard that a possible solution could be printing an alignment test every week or so. Can anyone tell if this approach would lead to a huge waste of ink or should I do it just in case (if the ink usage on these test pages is very marginal)?

I run my P800 in conjunction with my 3880 (which I've set up as a dedicated B&W printer, using Piezography inks).  Both rarely go more than a week without use.  Probably the longest I've gone without printing on the P800 is ten days or thereabouts.  But in past years, on my 3880 (and the 3800 that preceded it), I would sometimes go 2-3 months between print sessions, without any issues.  I strongly suspect the P800 will exhibit comparable reliability, but it'll be quite some time before we really know.

Regardless, yes, any kind of workaround that involves moving enough ink through the lines and head should be sufficient to avoid non-use problems.  I wouldn't recommend running an alignment weekly.  Simply printing a letter-size print which exercises all the colors should be sufficient.

[Wawe]

It appears Canon released the product just yesterday. However, sadly the printer doesn't seem to have a roll feed attachment, so I think I'll have to pass this if I want to be able to print panoramas.

I read on the P800 review mentioned earlier that it does a good job on B&W prints as well. What's the benefit of having a dedicated B&W printer on the side? Is the difference so noticeable that this is something worth considering for me, too? I think I might be printing something like 10% of my work B&W.

[Wawe]

If you use Lightroom and/or Photoshop you could look at the book "The Digital Print" by Jeff Schewe.  Call sign "schewe" on these forums.

Yep, I do use Lightroom and Photoshop (CC) and have understood that Lightroom is one of the best programs to use for color management, especially when I'll be doing most of my retouching there also. So thanks for the tip!