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Author Topic: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro  (Read 3457 times)

RiP

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Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« on: October 16, 2015, 12:29:14 pm »

Hello all :)

I have lots of old 35mm color negatives and want to scan all with my Epson V850 Pro.
But using the Thumbnail mode, it takes 37 times to scan only 18 images:
1 time for preview, 36 times for 18 images (x2 for Digital ICE)

I'm sure it will break my scanner in short time. Any solution?  :-X
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 12:31:58 pm »

Use SilverFast.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 01:01:39 pm »

Use SilverFast.

Hi Mark,

That's interesting. Does Silverfast scan both RGB and IR at the same time?

Cheers,
Bart
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RiP

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 01:13:19 pm »

Hi Mark,

That's interesting. Does Silverfast scan both RGB and IR at the same time?

Cheers,
Bart
No.

I have various problems with SilverFast, it can't detect frames well and need to scan each frame for 2 times (with ICE) same as Epson Scan.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 01:15:16 pm by RiP »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 01:57:50 pm »

No.

I have various problems with SilverFast, it can't detect frames well and need to scan each frame for 2 times (with ICE) same as Epson Scan.

Hi,

That's what I expected, so I remain puzzled by the suggestion.

Cheers,
Bart
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 03:19:19 pm »

Hi Mark,

That's interesting. Does Silverfast scan both RGB and IR at the same time?

Cheers,
Bart

OK, I was a bit "shorthand" in my initial response, so you wouldn't be able to know exactly what is implied. The operative phrase is "at the same time" - what does one mean by that. The answer can be yes or no depending. So let me take you through the procedure and there will be no further ambiguity.

To get one thing out of the way first in light of the post just under your first one - SilverFast does not use - and for a great many years never has used ICE for dust and scratch removal. It has its own tool called iSRD for scanners with an infrared channel and it is superior to ICE. I won't side-track into the whys and wherefores of iSRD in this thread, except to say anyone associating ICE with SilverFast doesn't know SilverFast. As well, for the benefit of RIP to know, in SilverFast 8.5 for the Epson V850 the "Find Frames" tool finds and delineates all the frames in the scan frame extremely quickly and accurately. I just did it to make sure what I knew before is still true, and it is.

Now, turning to the use of iSRD in batch scanning mode, let us say that I insert two strips of 4 negatives (8 images or to be 8 frames) into the holder, place the holder onto the scanner platen, close the lid, fire-up SilverFast. Here are the steps:

In the top row of Image settings: select Transparency, Negative, 48 bit, Filmstrip 35mm filmstrip holder (this is important). Then hit Prescan. The pre-scan of the whole page takes less than 30 seconds. Then enter Frames and hit Find Frames and again select 35mm filmstrip holder (important). This finds all eight frames accurately in less than 5 seconds. Let us say we want to scan all eight in a batch with the same settings using iSRD. Select any one frame and open the iSRD tool. This tool can be customized in several useful ways, but again, a topic for another thread. Keeping it set to Automatic is usually just fine. In the Scan Dimensions panel, select the resolution and linear dimensions you want, and the folder you want the images to end-up in. Make any other adjustments you want right here (or wait to do a number of those in an external editor - partly a matter of preference, but again a whole other topic for another thread - or - shameless plug - in my book). Go to frames and click on Apply Settings to All Frames (important). Hold down the Scan button for a few seconds until it says Batch Scan. Click and go for coffee. While you are having coffee SilverFast and the Epson V850 will dutifully scan all eight frames all with iSRD doing its thing. In the process of doing this, it makes two passes - one for the RGB channels immediately followed by one for the iSRD, so they are sequential, not simultaneous, but they require no user intervention.

As for the time taken, in the example I quoted above, where 3600PPI at negative native dimensions in 16 bit, SilverFast with the Epson V850 took 3 minutes and 16 seconds for one complete sequential pass of the RGB and IR channels and processing the file into the folder I destined the images. Each file is 113.2 MB. Opened in Photoshop and resized but not resampled to 360 PPI (say for the Epson printer), the linear dimensions for these scans are 9.45 by 14.17 inches.

As for the OPs concern about wear and tear on the scanner: I don't know of a process that performs both the RGB and IR scans simultaneously in one pass - that doesn't mean there isn't one; I am simply unaware of it. The engine will last as long as it it is designed for under normal use which includes scanning with the IR channel. This isn't exactly a low-end device so personally I would not be concerned about this. Your real concern should be process convenience and time taken. In this regard SilverFast 8.5 with this scanner model is a very good batch scanning solution. Long-winded amplification of my initial two-word suggestion! :-)

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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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RiP

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 12:36:50 pm »

OK, I was a bit "shorthand" in my initial response, so you wouldn't be able to know exactly what is implied. The operative phrase is "at the same time" - what does one mean by that. The answer can be yes or no depending. So let me take you through the procedure and there will be no further ambiguity.

To get one thing out of the way first in light of the post just under your first one - SilverFast does not use - and for a great many years never has used ICE for dust and scratch removal. It has its own tool called iSRD for scanners with an infrared channel and it is superior to ICE. I won't side-track into the whys and wherefores of iSRD in this thread, except to say anyone associating ICE with SilverFast doesn't know SilverFast. As well, for the benefit of RIP to know, in SilverFast 8.5 for the Epson V850 the "Find Frames" tool finds and delineates all the frames in the scan frame extremely quickly and accurately. I just did it to make sure what I knew before is still true, and it is.

Now, turning to the use of iSRD in batch scanning mode, let us say that I insert two strips of 4 negatives (8 images or to be 8 frames) into the holder, place the holder onto the scanner platen, close the lid, fire-up SilverFast. Here are the steps:

In the top row of Image settings: select Transparency, Negative, 48 bit, Filmstrip 35mm filmstrip holder (this is important). Then hit Prescan. The pre-scan of the whole page takes less than 30 seconds. Then enter Frames and hit Find Frames and again select 35mm filmstrip holder (important). This finds all eight frames accurately in less than 5 seconds. Let us say we want to scan all eight in a batch with the same settings using iSRD. Select any one frame and open the iSRD tool. This tool can be customized in several useful ways, but again, a topic for another thread. Keeping it set to Automatic is usually just fine. In the Scan Dimensions panel, select the resolution and linear dimensions you want, and the folder you want the images to end-up in. Make any other adjustments you want right here (or wait to do a number of those in an external editor - partly a matter of preference, but again a whole other topic for another thread - or - shameless plug - in my book). Go to frames and click on Apply Settings to All Frames (important). Hold down the Scan button for a few seconds until it says Batch Scan. Click and go for coffee. While you are having coffee SilverFast and the Epson V850 will dutifully scan all eight frames all with iSRD doing its thing. In the process of doing this, it makes two passes - one for the RGB channels immediately followed by one for the iSRD, so they are sequential, not simultaneous, but they require no user intervention.

As for the time taken, in the example I quoted above, where 3600PPI at negative native dimensions in 16 bit, SilverFast with the Epson V850 took 3 minutes and 16 seconds for one complete sequential pass of the RGB and IR channels and processing the file into the folder I destined the images. Each file is 113.2 MB. Opened in Photoshop and resized but not resampled to 360 PPI (say for the Epson printer), the linear dimensions for these scans are 9.45 by 14.17 inches.

As for the OPs concern about wear and tear on the scanner: I don't know of a process that performs both the RGB and IR scans simultaneously in one pass - that doesn't mean there isn't one; I am simply unaware of it. The engine will last as long as it it is designed for under normal use which includes scanning with the IR channel. This isn't exactly a low-end device so personally I would not be concerned about this. Your real concern should be process convenience and time taken. In this regard SilverFast 8.5 with this scanner model is a very good batch scanning solution. Long-winded amplification of my initial two-word suggestion! :-)

SilverFast's Find Frames doesn't work well. I have already tried it.
And you didn't get me. Both SilverFast and Epson Scan operate in the same way.
Epson Scan is even faster because of the accurate automatic Thumbnails option.
But my problem is another thing. I said for 18 frames, it takes 37 times to scan.
I mean the scanner head should move to front and back for 37 times that makes it so hot.
I need a way to scan all the frames in fewer times but if I select the whole frames, I'll get awful colors.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 01:53:33 pm »

SilverFast's Find Frames doesn't work well. I have already tried it.
And you didn't get me. Both SilverFast and Epson Scan operate in the same way.
Epson Scan is even faster because of the accurate automatic Thumbnails option.
But my problem is another thing. I said for 18 frames, it takes 37 times to scan.
I mean the scanner head should move to front and back for 37 times that makes it so hot.
I need a way to scan all the frames in fewer times but if I select the whole frames, I'll get awful colors.

If you are using SF version 8.5 and not getting Find Frames to work well, there is something you are not doing right. Please note that I was an external tester for this application before it was released, I retested Find Frames for this thread yesterday in the same scanner model you are using and as far as I can observe it works well. I told you that as far as I know there is no way to compress both the RGB and the IR functionality into 18 passes for 18 frames, and I suggested you not worry about the impact of repeated passes on the scanner - it is designed for this. And yes, selecting the whole frame-holder for making one pass of all 18 images, if that's what you mean, does and should deliver nasty results. Sorry, I can't help you any further, so I'm done with this discussion.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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AFairley

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Re: Problem with scanning 35mm color negatives with Epson V850 Pro
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2015, 12:42:14 pm »

To the OP, Since AFAIK the Epson  or Silverfast is applying color correction in software to the raw scan, (again, AKAIK exposure/color is not adjustable in hardware with the Epson Vxxx scanners)  I would  think there would be no difference in final image if you batch scan, crop out and then color correct each slide post-scan.  That may or may not work for your purposes and workflow.  I find I have to do some work on whatever comes out of th V700.
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