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Author Topic: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.  (Read 5392 times)

jjj

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 05:21:22 pm »

Don't forget the shareholders, you must do whatever they demand even if it means the business runs less effectively.
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Rob C

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2015, 04:06:37 am »

Hear my wry laugh re. shareholders. Ever actually been none? Ever watched the family lose the monetary equivalent of a brand new Ferrari and Porsche to a single collapse? I have.

If you're going to talk about shareholders etc. please have the courtesy to know what the hell you're talking about first.

Shareholders are what provide you with a pension; the group that sometimes sits and watches nothing coming in perhaps for some years in a line; the group that's called in to subscribe even more to keep a company from folding altogether at times. In a nutshell, business can't do without 'em. Where the hell do you think the capital comes from to make any of it work, to keep you, your kids and the rest of the bloody world employed? Yes some companies can make you a reasonable return, but just as many can clean you out. It's not for nothing that the basic warning is that it's not an activity for widows and orphans.

Rob C

jjj

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2015, 08:26:21 am »

Hear my wry laugh re. shareholders. Ever actually been none? Ever watched the family lose the monetary equivalent of a brand new Ferrari and Porsche to a single collapse? I have.

If you're going to talk about shareholders etc. please have the courtesy to know what the hell you're talking about first.
Why assume I do not know about the subject, simply because I do not view shareholding in a favourable light. It's because I know about such things is precisely why I dislike how companies can be crippled by having to please shareholders.
Also my mum lost £20k+ in a share collapse a while back, couldn't be very sympathetic I'm afraid. Just as she wouldn't be if someone lost money gambling. Oh wait it was gambling, except people do not like to call it for what it is. A finance writer for one of the broadsheets every year had his young son throw darts at the top 100 FTSE index and compare how well those darts did Vs various experts. His son's random choices did better every time I saw him write about this.

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Shareholders are what provide you with a pension; the group that sometimes sits and watches nothing coming in perhaps for some years in a line; the group that's called in to subscribe even more to keep a company from folding altogether at times. In a nutshell, business can't do without 'em. Where the hell do you think the capital comes from to make any of it work, to keep you, your kids and the rest of the bloody world employed?
It is not the only way to finance things or to make a pension. Or even a particularly wise way to sort a pension out, just ask all those who lost their pensions in share collapses.

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Yes some companies can make you a reasonable return, but just as many can clean you out. It's not for nothing that the basic warning is that it's not an activity for widows and orphans.
Yet idiots who lose money when shares go down complain and whinge. Well of course they do, that's how shares operate sometime up, sometimes down. No different from complaining that your horse didn't win at the derby.
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amolitor

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2015, 09:55:03 am »

'Shareholders' these days means the hard men who run funds of various stripes. They do indeed call the shots, often, for high level strategic things at corporations.

Individuals should almost never own individual stocks. It's not that individuals are stupid, it's that the risk profile is all wrong.
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jjj

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2015, 09:57:48 am »

Individuals should almost never own individual stocks. It's not that individuals are stupid, it's that the risk profile is all wrong.
Just like playing the Casino, you should never stake more than you can afford to lose.
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Rob C

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2015, 10:58:21 am »

Why assume I do not know about the subject, simply because I do not view shareholding in a favourable light. It's because I know about such things is precisely why I dislike how companies can be crippled by having to please shareholders.
Also my mum lost £20k+ in a share collapse a while back, couldn't be very sympathetic I'm afraid. Just as she wouldn't be if someone lost money gambling. Oh wait it was gambling, except people do not like to call it for what it is. A finance writer for one of the broadsheets every year had his young son throw darts at the top 100 FTSE index and compare how well those darts did Vs various experts. His son's random choices did better every time I saw him write about this.
It is not the only way to finance things or to make a pension. Or even a particularly wise way to sort a pension out, just ask all those who lost their pensions in share collapses.
Yet idiots who lose money when shares go down complain and whinge. Well of course they do, that's how shares operate sometime up, sometimes down. No different from complaining that your horse didn't win at the derby.


You are confusing several things: the private person and the institutional player.

The private investor is usually in it for the long term, with stocks such as M&S, one or other of the banks (until 2007/8!) and some holding companies spreading their portfolio over many companies, industries and countries. In stable times, as from the 60s until perhaps the end of the 90s, this was a perfectly safe way for an individual to keep capital and make some modest interest. Yes, modest. The big money was made on margin (not interest earned), with instant access to brokers and all the services that the ordinary small investor didn't have, the closest access being having the bank sell on your behalf. Brokers had little time for small investors - not hard to understand why.

And what to do when your investment takes a slow dive? Sell? Capital gains and brokerage fees soon make you lose one helluva lot; often safer to hang on in there and pray the tide turns again. Sometimes not. But how do you, the little guy, ever know? Next week can be far too late.

So yes, in troubled times, better out of it, just as amolitor and the proverb say.

But regarding the gamble aspect: there's also the concept that money left lying in a bank is a stinking fish. Today, as you must know, there's only insult in place of bank interest, and you actually lose value on savings as time marches onwards.

NancyP

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2015, 11:19:29 am »

We are a little off topic. The question is, is B and H violating worker safety requirements? Can NIOSH do anything about it, if allegations are true? Have there been laws broken? I wouldn't mind seeing a real investigation. I can't but help think that al-Jazeera may be a bit prejudiced regarding an Hasidic-Jewish-owned establishment. It would be nice to get new information from another source that is not clearly biased toward either the union or the company (NYT was reporting about the reporting). I am reserving judgement at the moment. Still, I think that any mail-order business is going to have the same tendency to squeeze their warehouse workers. So this puts the buyer in a bit of a quandary. If the local store doesn't carry an item you need and isn't set up to order it, and it is impractical to get to a bricks-and-mortar store that does carry it, where do you shop? 1. big box store (BH or Adorama) or Amazon 2. regional bricks and mortar store that does carry it and will mail it 3. manufacturer 4. flea-Bay, if you want used. Any big box or Amazon operation has the same issues. Manufacturer - who knows? Regional store - may not want to get into fulfilling orders on esoteric stuff.
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AlterEgo

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2015, 12:45:42 pm »

I can't but help think that al-Jazeera may be a bit prejudiced regarding an Hasidic-Jewish-owned establishment.
but of course... muslim owned news outlet attacking jews for exploitation catholic illegal aliens with disregard for the safety laws...
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jjj

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2015, 01:51:37 pm »

You are confusing several things: the private person and the institutional player.
No, that's just your assumption.

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The private investor is usually in it for the long term, with stocks such as M&S, one or other of the banks (until 2007/8!) and some holding companies spreading their portfolio over many companies, industries and countries. In stable times, as from the 60s until perhaps the end of the 90s, this was a perfectly safe way for an individual to keep capital and make some modest interest. Yes, modest. The big money was made on margin (not interest earned), with instant access to brokers and all the services that the ordinary small investor didn't have, the closest access being having the bank sell on your behalf. Brokers had little time for small investors - not hard to understand why.

And what to do when your investment takes a slow dive? Sell? Capital gains and brokerage fees soon make you lose one helluva lot; often safer to hang on in there and pray the tide turns again. Sometimes not. But how do you, the little guy, ever know? Next week can be far too late.
The experts know little more. Anything that tends to give you an insight into where stocks are going may well be insider trading knowledge. The way these folk made money is usually by handling other people's money/giving advice.

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But regarding the gamble aspect: there's also the concept that money left lying in a bank is a stinking fish. Today, as you must know, there's only insult in place of bank interest, and you actually lose value on savings as time marches onwards.
Why should one even expect your money to gain in value? It'd be nice certainly, but it is never a sure thing. Property long term in the UK is usually safer.
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amolitor

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2015, 08:53:12 pm »

A lovely example of why individuals should not own stock. When a stock takes a dive, the answer is almost always "buy more of it" which is psychologically almost impossible when your own money is on the line.

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Rob C

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2015, 04:43:26 am »

Why should one even expect your money to gain in value?

Ah, you mean the banks you trust with it should be the only ones to profit from what's yours, then? Cool. Novel idea, for a depositor.

;-)

Rob C

jjj

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Re: B&H faces unwanted exposure over worker safety.
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2015, 11:46:29 am »

Ah, you mean the banks you trust with it should be the only ones to profit from what's yours, then? Cool. Novel idea, for a depositor.
Not what I said or meant at all.
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