40mm lens choices for Hasselblad V system on MFDB?

[jng]

I am contemplating wide angle choices for my Hassy V system paired with the P1 IQ160 back and am writing to see if anyone has experience they can share with the Hasselblad 40mm lenses on a full frame (40 x 54mm) MFDB. I am already using the SWC 38mm Biogon, which I'm pretty happy with (nice rendering, very low distortion) but requires stopping down to f/16 to pull in the edges and corners owing to the symmetrical design of the lens. So, I'm looking for an alternative.

From Zeiss's MTF charts, the 40mm IF version is clearly the sharpest in class but suffers from high levels of distortion, not to mention the cost of a good used copy. According to the MTF charts the 40mm FLE shows significantly worse performance in the corners than the Biogon but I'm guessing that the Biogon is likely doing far worse in reality on the digital sensor than these charts would otherwise suggest. I suppose an alternative would be to move into a tech camera with a Rodenstock retrofocus lens but this would require a bit of a paradigm shift as well as a sizable financial outlay. I might get there one day, but for now I'm focusing on the Hassy V system.

I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts and experiences from the medium format experts on the Lula forum!

Thanks.

John

Edit: I would be using the lens mainly for landscapes and perhaps also for still life images.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I am shooting the Distagon 40/4 CF FLE on a P45+. The P45+ is 1.1, not full frame.

In all, I would say I am quite happy with that lens, mostly. I would think it has some field curvature, that is the focal plane is curved, based on the MTF. Often this may work in our favour on foreground subjects.

I have seen the weakness shown in the MTF from time to time. I would also say that what often limits my V-system is my ability to focus correctly.

Here are some samples: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/Distagon40/

And here is an aperture series at f/4, f/8 and f/16: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/CastleShoot/Distagon_40/

Best regards
Erik

I am contemplating wide angle choices for my Hassy V system paired with the P1 IQ160 back and am writing to see if anyone has experience they can share with the Hasselblad 40mm lenses on a full frame (40 x 54mm) MFDB. I am already using the SWC 38mm Biogon, which I'm pretty happy with (nice rendering, very low distortion) but requires stopping down to f/16 to pull in the edges and corners owing to the symmetrical design of the lens. So, I'm looking for an alternative.

From Zeiss's MTF charts, the 40mm IF version is clearly the sharpest in class but suffers from high levels of distortion, not to mention the cost of a good used copy. According to the MTF charts the 40mm FLE shows significantly worse performance in the corners than the Biogon but I'm guessing that the Biogon is likely doing far worse in reality on the digital sensor than these charts would otherwise suggest. I suppose an alternative would be to move into a tech camera with a Rodenstock retrofocus lens but this would require a bit of a paradigm shift as well as a sizable financial outlay. I might get there one day, but for now I'm focusing on the Hassy V system.

I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts and experiences from the medium format experts on the Lula forum!

Thanks.

John

Edit: I would be using the lens mainly for landscapes and perhaps also for still life images.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I am shooting the Distagon 40/4 CF FLE on a P45+. The P45+ is 1.1, not full frame.

In all, I would say I am quite happy with that lens, mostly. I would think it has some field curvature, that is the focal plane is curved, based on the MTF. Often this may work in our favour on foreground subjects.

I have seen the weakness shown in the MTF from time to time. I would also say that what often limits my V-system is my ability to focus correctly.

Here are some samples: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/Distagon40/

And here is an aperture series at f/4, f/8 and f/16: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/CastleShoot/Distagon_40/

I would agree on the 40/4 IF being a better lens, based on MTF, but I am quite pleased with the 40/4 CF FLE.

Best regards
Erik

[Rod.Klukas]

The 40mm will be fine, even in the less corrected versions in most cases.  The best balance between the image quality of the corners verses center, will be at an aperture around F11 to 11.5 with any back up to 60mp.  At this aperture, the image projection will be quite flat compared to the projection at F4 or 5.6.
The only place the distortion, called pin cushion or 'Mustache', will be a problem will be when shooting regular objects, such as a building.  The center will tend to rise and the object near the edge of the frame will appear to fall off a bit.  That is because it is a reverse telephoto design.  This in herent in this design philosophy.  Photoshop has ways to correct this in post processing.

Even Rodenstock has similar mustache in their wide angles as well.
But for landscape and irregularly shaped objects no worries.
Rod

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for excellent info!

Best regards
Erik

The 40mm will be fine, even in the less corrected versions in most cases.  The best balance between the image quality of the corners verses center, will be at an aperture around F11 to 11.5 with any back up to 60mp.  At this aperture, the image projection will be quite flat compared to the projection at F4 or 5.6.
The only place the distortion, called pin cushion or 'Mustache', will be a problem will be when shooting regular objects, such as a building.  The center will tend to rise and the object near the edge of the frame will appear to fall off a bit.  That is because it is a reverse telephoto design.  This in herent in this design philosophy.  Photoshop has ways to correct this in post processing.

Even Rodenstock has similar mustache in their wide angles as well.
But for landscape and irregularly shaped objects no worries.
Rod

[jng]

Erik, Rod,

Thanks for the useful information and thanks to Erik for the links to your example image files.

Regarding the moustache distortion of the 40mm IF - I'm probably just spoiled by the relative lack of distortion of the SWC's Biogon. But yes, I suppose the distortion can be corrected where necessary either in Photoshop or Capture 1 (with some loss of resolution - maybe nothing to worry about?). In fact there's a default profile for the IF lens in Capture 1.

John

[jng]

Ashley,

Thanks for your perspective and for the stunning image. And in fact you read my mind: the main intended use for the 40mm is on my newly acquired Flexbody. For me, photography is an avocation so for now I am my one and only client (and a rather fussy one at that).

Cheers,

John

[ben730]

Ashley,
nice pictures, very crisp!
I think they wouldn't be possible in this quality with the 40 CF FLE.
My experience is that the CFE/CFIs in general are a lot stronger than the CFs in backlight situations, especially the 40 + 50 mm lenses.
Years ago I used to have a 40 CF FLE with a Flexbody and had the chance to upgrade to the IF for a bargain.
The indoor shots with the 40 CF FLE directly to a window where always sallow and a kind of disappointing. The IF changed everything.

I still use the IF with my Cambo WRS and an adaptor (http://www.ebay.ch/itm/Cambo-WDS-WRS-Lens-board-fit-hasselblad-lens-phase-one-leaf-digital-back-/171959223625?hash=item2809918549:g:J~cAAOSwmrlUuC4M).
This allows me to shift to left/right and up/down in the same time. Almost all of my bathroom pictures on my Website are shot with this camera/lens combination......
For me, the IF is very sharp (at F11) within an image circle of +/- 85mm with a 6 micron back. It is at F4 (unshifted) already crisp sharp (also in the corners) with a 6 micron 44 x 33 Back. I would be interested how it compares to the Rodenstock 40 HR.......
Maybe some tech specialists in this forum know more......
Regards,
Ben

[Chris Barrett]

My 40 CFe is at Hasselblad for a checkup.  The tech informed me that it's one of the nicer ones he's seen.  I got it from KEH.  Loving all my new 'Blad glass!

[patrickfransdesmet]

Hi,
If you are looking for a CFE 40/4 IF
I have one in MINT condition
with 90mm UV filter
new price was 6800€
will sell for 3500€

contact me at
patrick.desmet@reflection.be
Belgium

[ErikKaffehr]

:-) Erik :-)

... The tech informed me that it's one of the nicer ones he's seen.  I got it from KEH.  Loving all my new 'Blad glass!

[jng]

Thanks again to all for your input. I just bought a 40mm IF in mint condition from a local photographer who sold it to me at a very fair price. I've only had a chance to run a few very quick tests but I can already tell that this will be an amazing lens to make images with!

[ben730]

 
Good luck with your new lens, but you don't need luck now.
It's up to you, the lens is a master.
This lens creates as all Hasselblad Zeiss lenses the wonderful 5 blade bokeh,...
(if stopped down).....
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=104598.20

Regards,
Ben

[jng]

Good luck with your new lens, but you don't need luck now.
It's up to you, the lens is a master.
This lens creates as all Hasselblad Zeiss lenses the wonderful 5 blade bokeh,...
(if stopped down).....
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=104598.20

Regards,
Ben

Thanks! Finding V system lenses and other assorted components in good condition can be a bit of a treasure hunt, so yes the part requiring luck is over and it's now all about learning how to get the most out of the new (old) lens.

Regarding those classic pentagonal OOF highlights, aside from being a dead giveaway for what kind of lens was used, I haven't yet decided whether this is a bug or a feature. Let's not go there!

-John

[ben730]

Regarding those classic pentagonal OOF highlights, aside from being a dead giveaway for what kind of lens was used, I haven't yet decided whether this is a bug or a feature. Let's not go there!

Please let me know, how you (and please all interested forum members) decided. For me, this is a feature.
We have to go there, but maybe not in this tread..........

Bokeh and depth of field is one of the important problems I have to solve when I'm shooting. I often think my clients wouldn't see
a difference, but the 5 Star diaphragm results seem more 3D for me.........

....but this is only my view......
regards, Ben

[jng]

Please let me know, how you (and please all interested forum members) decided. For me, this is a feature.
We have to go there, but maybe not in this tread..........

Bokeh and depth of field is one of the important problems I have to solve when I'm shooting. I often think my clients wouldn't see
a difference, but the 5 Star diaphragm results seem more 3D for me.........

....but this is only my view......
regards, Ben

I'm not sure that this is necessarily an either/or proposition. But if those old school pentagonal bokeh highlights work for you (the image maker), this will show in your images.

To be continued (perhaps in another thread)...

- John

[Chris Livsey]

I know the thread title is V system but I am now using a P45+ on the H. The V lens collection is however the mainstay, given amateur status and funding.
I have the 40mm FLE and take on board all comments on the IF CFE, they are available at a similar cost to a H series 35mm. I read the HC lens is probably not a shining star in the HC firmament (note on a H1 I am not able to run the HCD series unless i send in for a firmware upgrade, again)

So eventually we reach the query: 40mm IF CFE on adapter or 35mm HC for P45+ any experiences ? (I suppose a flexbody to extend the versatility of the 40mm FLE is another alternative?)