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Author Topic: the real cost of it all...  (Read 15249 times)

OldRoy

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the real cost of it all...
« on: October 11, 2015, 10:40:25 am »

Edited:
My intention was tp post this in the "Obsolescence be damned!" thread but I was automatically logged out so this ended up, accidentally, as a new thread. Moderator feel free do do with it as you will. 

I stopped buying the latest "must have" (nauseating phrase) photographic products a couple of years ago, sickened to a degree by the constant hysteria that seems to surround each minute development and by the way that the dangling carrot of technical perfection retreats at the same rate as we approach it: churn, a fundamental requirement of the economic philosophy that engenders these products. I admit that my financial position also makes it unwise, if not impossible, for me to succumb to the sort of impulse purchases for which I would once have effortlessly generated justifications.

But there's more to my position than that and it relates to the entire world of economics and its relationship with the increasingly disintegrating world that we inhabit. I see people slavering over the prospect of an iPhone "n" or Sony's latest full-frame camera whilst disregarding the fact that this relentless marketing contest takes place at the price of the most valuable thing we all have, which is our planet and all that it naturally contains (or used to contain.) Like DNA. Before today's out who knows how many species will have passed into extinction? And yet almost any challenge faced by mankind for our continued existence on a habitable world has probably been solved by billions of years of evolution. Its as if we live in a gigantic library where so far we've only managed to read a few pages of a handful of books - which we're steadily tossing into a furnace in order  to raise the temperature a (wholly uneccessary) few extra degrees.

The relationship between these phenomena isn't too hard to understand although I can only attempt a simplification here. In a world where the proportional return on capital is increasingly allocated to the owners of capital, with an equivalent decrease in wages to the preponderance of the world's workforce, (who also constitute the market for the products they produce) there's a requirement for an ever-increasing number of consumers. It's the economics of the chain-letter/Ponzi scam. If the expression "The elephant in the room" has any mileage left in it, it's surely applicable to the issue of population growth, the underlying cause of every problem in terms of climate change and resource depletion: which, as far as I can see, is almost never raised when discussing the symptoms of the disease.

Of course whenever anyone dares to mention this (which happens amazingly seldom) the hoary old argument of decreasing birth rates in developed cultures (taking "developed" to mean wealthy) arises. Imagine what it will cost for the entire world to be raised to "western" consumption levels by the time such an objective could be realised, if it ever could. A few years ago James Lovelock - a man who for many years was ridiculed as a crackpot, until many scientists realised that his "Gaia" metaphor was one of the most useful tools ever invented with which to understand planetary ecology - estimated that for humanity to live on a stable Earth (ie one where resources were generally renewed) at the level of consumption currently enjoyed in "The West", the maximum viable world population would be about one-third of its current level. Now I've no idea how this estimate was generated but it strikes me, instinctively, as at least a pretty inspired guess.

I reflect on this every day as the headline news items now invariably incorporate the word "migrants" in the first sentence. A couple of weeks ago I saw an interesting TV news piece about the human-free exclusion zone at Chernobyl. It now exhibits an amazing resurgence of all kinds of species (the European Bison!) with astonishingly scant evidence of the disastrous genetic mutations we've come to expect - the catfish living in the pools of highly radioactive coolant being the main exception, and even they don't seem to have undergone any catastrophic changes. To some it might seem paradoxical that this piece cheered me up tremendously on an otherwise depressing news day.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 10:52:23 am by OldRoy »
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jjj

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 10:58:41 am »

If only we bought what we needed, then the entire economy would collapse.
Needing a camera to take photos is a genuine need. Wanting a slightly better camera that came out a few months later is quite different.
Needing clothes to keep you warm is again a genuine need. Wanting this year's team strip with the new sponsors name on it, because you only have last year's version is not a need.

Re population, it stabilizes and decreases as living standards rise. Particularly health and education.
I saw something on this a while back and the situation is nowhere near as dire as you would expect.

As for Chernobyl, what you do not see are all the critters that didn't survive because of radiation damage.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 11:00:23 am by jjj »
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OldRoy

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 11:36:02 am »

This is what I'd call missing the point comprehensively.
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jjj

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 12:08:13 pm »

So what was your point?
I simply addressed a couple of items mentioned in your rambling post.
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OldRoy

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2015, 12:11:29 pm »

"Rambling post"
You're obviously someone whose attention span is better adapted to Twitter.
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jjj

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 04:30:27 pm »

A famous French writer [whose name escapes me know] once apologised for a long rambling letter to his friend. Why? Because he said he didn't have time to write a short one.
Communicating with brevity is a real skill as it happens. So is making a succinct point.
Which you still haven't said what it was yet.

You are also making false assumptions, as I read all of your post and do not even use twitter. That's how I know post was rambling.

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jmlphotography

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 08:19:21 pm »

FWIW: Quote originally comes from Blaise Pascal in 1657, but is often incorrectly attributed to numerous others, e.g., Mark Twain.
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stamper

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 03:59:02 am »

Unfortunately not really a rambling post more of a rant? I suspect few will take the time to read all of it? :(

Rob C

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 05:21:51 am »

Nice post, OldRoy, and accurate.

Rob C

GrahamBy

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2015, 06:46:39 am »

It's a somewhat delicate point to address on a site that exists as part of the advertising machinery that encourgaes us to buy the new products.
With, it must be said, a certain amount of misinformation either factual (ie insisting on the light weight of a mirrorless camera while neglecting to mention that going full frame increases the weight of needed lens by much more) or emotional (buy this and you'll take better photos).
All of which is a consequence of the fact that the existing products are now so damn good.

I'm not sure I see the connection to Chernobyl, unless you mean that only those of us with geater genetic resistance (to advertising??) will survive and beget a less manipulable population is several generations...

However there is a legitimate point that the wealthy but stagnant economies are less likely to focus the RD of manufacturers than the ones with rapidly growing middle-classes who will eventually catch up with the falling standard of living of those with comparable jobs in the OECD etc.
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jjj

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2015, 11:17:07 am »

FWIW: Quote originally comes from Blaise Pascal in 1657, but is often incorrectly attributed to numerous others, e.g., Mark Twain.
Thanks, couldn't recall the name.
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amolitor

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2015, 11:36:43 am »

I'm not seeing any rambling at all. There's a totally straight line from the start to the end.

Seems like the sort of thing that might raise some hackles, politically, leading to accusations, however.

Pretty spot on, I'd say. Probably belongs in the coffee corner.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2015, 01:24:09 pm »

It is true that the never ending upgrade story serves the global economy much better than the environment. No doubt whatsoever.

Now, IMHO, things have to be kept in perspective for the following reasons:
- Few of the pretty high end cameras most LL fellows get rid off are discarded. They typically end in the hands of another photographer through auction sites. Granted, this may not apply to a majority of cameras being replaced,
- Cameras sell in pretty low absolute numbers compared to mobile phones, cars,... and that it likely to stay the same considering the increasing quality of integrated devices such as smart phones,
- Cameras are mostly designed by responsible companies caring for their image and the impact on the environment is mostly that of resources depletion, which is of course very real in its own right.

I am probably just trying not to feel to bad about myself... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 01:28:17 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2015, 02:11:53 pm »

FWIW: Quote originally comes from Blaise Pascal in 1657, but is often incorrectly attributed to numerous others, e.g., Mark Twain.

Cicero lived rather longer ago than Pascal, and it's attributed to him as well.

Jeremy
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stamper

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 03:21:28 am »

Cicero lived rather longer ago than Pascal, and it's attributed to him as well.

Jeremy

How much longer Jeremy?

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 03:41:24 am »

How much longer Jeremy?

Marcus Tullius Cicero
Born: January 3, 107 BC, Arpinum, Rome
Assassinated: December 7, 43 BC, Formia, Italy

Blaise Pascal
Born: June 19, 1623, Clermont-Ferrand, France
Died: August 19, 1662, Paris, France

Jeremy
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stamper

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 03:54:20 am »

Marcus Tullius Cicero
Born: January 3, 107 BC, Arpinum, Rome
Assassinated: December 7, 43 BC, Formia, Italy

Blaise Pascal
Born: June 19, 1623, Clermont-Ferrand, France
Died: August 19, 1662, Paris, France

Jeremy


Thanks. Food for thought for the rest of the day. ;)

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 02:27:08 pm »

Thanks. Food for thought for the rest of the day. ;)

Question: has it ever occurred to you that the Romans counted backwards? (Be honest.)

Sellars & Yeatman, "1066 and all that"

Jeremy
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Rob C

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 02:32:17 pm »

Question: has it ever occurred to you that the Romans counted backwards? (Be honest.)

Sellars & Yeatman, "1066 and all that"

Jeremy


Jeremy, that's just how the tourist trade works!

;-)

Rob C

tnargs

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Re: the real cost of it all...
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2015, 01:39:20 am »

I once saw a suggestion to upgrade one's gear no more often than every second 'new-generation' model, with respect to technological products. It makes more sense than ever, I think.

By which measure original Canon 7D buyers (released 2009) would still be imaging away, unconcerned by 7DII, unconcerned about what is just around the corner, knowing it is probably 2 or more years before they will even look attentively at a 7DIII or 8D.
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