Some experience with the A7rII

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I just published a small article describing my experience with the Sony A7rII so far. It is based on three weeks of shooting experience, two weeks in Alsace of France and one week in the Dolomites of Italy.

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/84-my-sony-a7rii-journey

Please note that some observations of processing problems were posted on this thread and the article was updated with reprocessed images taking some of these good comments into account.

Best regards
Erik

[eronald]

Hi,

I just published a small article describing my experience with the Sony A7rII so far. It is based on three weeks of shooting experience, two weeks in Alsace of France and one week in the Dolomites of Italy.

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/84-my-sony-a7rii-journey

Best regards
Erik

Interesting, thx for the comparison pix.
You forgot to tell us whether the A7RII comes with a recycling sticker for when you throw it away in 2 years

Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have not found a recycling sticker, but bought an optional five year warranty. Slightly optimistic, but I buy my cameras for feature sets, and it offers the features I considered necessary. The cost for the warranty was pretty nominal. Hopefully I don't need to find out what it is worth.

Most say I have been lucky this far. Forty-five years of experience, 15 bodies, around 40 lenses, three repairs of which I paid for one. Knock on wood…

Best regards
Erik

Interesting, thx for the comparison pix.
You forgot to tell us whether the A7RII comes with a recycling sticker for when you throw it away in 2 years

Edmund

[Manoli]

Erik,
Thanks the feedback.
Re your 'don't like' list:

1. Image stabilisation and AF should be overriden by presets. I want a preset for shooting on tripod and that should disable both image stabilisation and AF.
2. Battery is to small. Use the same batteries as the Alpha 99!
3. Please add an option to toggle peaking and zebras.
4. Zebras optimized for movies. Zebra should indicate real world clipping when shooting stills
5. Please give us a nice standard zoom with excellent sharpness

1 Both settings can be set in the [Fn] menu. Not in one go, but 2-button presses isn't the end of the world.
2 Battery is limited - you can reduce consumption by tailoring your usage (using the EVF and disabling the rear screen for example). Jim Kasson reported good usage on his recent expedition – see his blog. Also get a Mophie powerpack, you can charge the cam whilst it's in your camera bag.
3 As in 1 , or set to a custom button. I have it set to C3, just above the [AF-ON] button.
4 IIRC, Michael Reichmann recently posted that, in his experience, zebras indicate clipping at 1-stop under optimal ETTR.
4b The A7r is a movie cam too, so it's best that sony leave it optimised for motion. If you're using it for stills make a mental adjustment – not 100% but close enough pending a RAW histogram …
5 Patience – it may well be coming soon. Sony are set to announce 8 FE lenses soon. Rumored that a constant f2.8 24-70 is amongst them.


Without wishing to cause any offence, and excluding the Canon TS24 and the Sony 90macro, I think you may need to review your lens set to get the best out of this cam. Just my 2cents ..

Best,
M

[eronald]

Without wishing to cause any offence, and excluding the Canon TS24 and the Sony 90macro, I think you may need to review your lens set to get the best out of this cam. Just my 2cents ..

Best,
M

I think anyone who gets an A7RII should also get the Sony/Zeiss 50.

There is an amazing comparison image which compares with the Nikon 810 and the 5DS (reset the menu). Actually the D810 is pretty close to the A7R2 on resolution and DR alone, except the A7R2 image is much sharper in the foreground for some reason. The 5Ds seems to have DR issues.

Edmund

[Jim Kasson]

I just published a small article describing my experience with the Sony A7rII so far. It is based on three weeks of shooting experience, two weeks in Alsace of France and one week in the Dolomites of Italy.

Thanks, Erik. Nice write-up. Here's a summary of a two week trip I made from Sitka, Alaska to Seattle with a couple of a7RIIs and 5 lenses (4 Sony/Zony and the WATE):

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11839

Jim

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

On some issues you may be wrong. Settings on lenses override menu items. So if lens switch is on AF you cannot get manual focus using camera settings. My preference would be to have camera settings having precedence over other settings.

Regarding power consumptions i don't agree. It is all work arounds. The Alpha 99 SLT has a decent battery life, simply by using a decent size battery.

I think it is useful to have zebras/peaking on custom buttons but I would find them far more useful as toggles than a scrollable menu. It just to take to much time to scroll to "off".

Regarding the zebras I may think that they should indicate clipping when in still mode (dial not in movie mood).

Regarding the lenses, I think that the 24-70/2.8 ZA is pretty good say between 24-60. On the tele end it is a bit weak. Sony has a weak choice of excellent lenses right now. The 55/1.8 is on my shopping list.

Just to say, the Sony 24-70/2.8 ZA outperform the Canon 24/3.5 TS LII by a wide margin at 24 mm, but the Sony doesn't shift. Of course, my sample my be a bad one. On the other hand, Hans Kruse (a well known landscape photographer) sold of both his 17/4 and 35/3.5 TSEs as he felt they were inferior to his 16-35/4 zoom. I also had the opportunity to compare the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII to my friends 16-35/4 on a Canon 5DIII and found the zoom to be at advantage.

It will be interesting which 8 lens Sony will present. Right now I foresee the following combo:

- Zeiss Batis 25/4
- Zeiss Loxia 35/2 (with quite a few reservations based on MTF data on Zeiss)
- Sony 55/1.8
- Sony 90/2.8G (that I already have)

That should match what I shoot on the Hasselblad/P45+ combo.

But, zooms have a great advantage, they offer the focal length actually needed. A 35 mm lens will not work if you need a 34 mm crop, and "zooming with your feet" changes perspective if it is possible at all.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,
Thanks the feedback.
Re your 'don't like' list:

1 Both settings can be set in the [Fn] menu. Not in one go, but 2-button presses isn't the end of the world.
2 Battery is limited - you can reduce consumption by tailoring your usage (using the EVF and disabling the rear screen for example). Jim Kasson reported good usage on his recent expedition – see his blog. Also get a Mophie powerpack, you can charge the cam whilst it's in your camera bag.
3 As in 1 , or set to a custom button. I have it set to C3, just above the [AF-ON] button.
4 IIRC, Michael Reichmann recently posted that, in his experience, zebras indicate clipping at 1-stop under optimal ETTR.
4b The A7r is a movie cam too, so it's best that sony leave it optimised for motion. If you're using it for stills make a mental adjustment – not 100% but close enough pending a RAW histogram …
5 Patience – it may well be coming soon. Sony are set to announce 8 FE lenses soon. Rumored that a constant f2.8 24-70 is amongst them.


Without wishing to cause any offence, and excluding the Canon TS24 and the Sony 90macro, I think you may need to review your lens set to get the best out of this cam. Just my 2cents ..

Best,
M

[AlterEgo]

4 IIRC, Michael Reichmann recently posted that, in his experience, zebras indicate clipping at 1-stop under optimal ETTR.

zebra works based on OOC JPG parameters so unless you remove variations about WB you can't be sure about that.

it is well known that to make zebra indicate a proper clipping in raw you need to use at least 3 simple settings with A7R2 :

WB = UniWB
Creative Style = Neutral (contrast -3, saturation -3, ...)
Zebra = 100+

if you want to trade green tint for greyscale image _AND_ be able to use "face detection" under a daylight (otherwise with Setting Effect = ON it will work under tungsten, but not under daylight - unlike Olympus where WB settings do not interfere with face detection) I also suggest an addition of a picture profile like (similar to) this on top :

Gamma = Cine3 (reason : allows ISO to be dialed below 800 unlike S-Log... Cine2 is also worth a try if you want)
Knee = Auto (or you can play with manual settings)
Saturation = -32 (this removes green tint too with Setting Effect = ON)
Color Mode = S-Gamut
Color Phase = 0
Color Depth = 0s
Black Gamma = Wide/+7 (just for a taste : darker areas = brighter)
Black Level = +15 (just for a taste : darker areas = brighter)

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the link. I much agree with your writing.

Personally, I feel that the medium range zoom is important as I am mostly shooting in that range. Some high end Leica lenses are quite compelling but a bit beyond what I am willing to pay. Leica has an R-zoom of awesome reputation but also a price tag on used samples around 5000$US.

I actually like the camera very much. But I want to share the experience I actually have and not an enthusiast review.

Best regards
Erik

Thanks, Erik. Nice write-up. Here's a summary of a two week trip I made from Sitka, Alaska to Seattle with a couple of a7RIIs and 5 lenses (4 Sony/Zony and the WATE):

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11839

Jim

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would guess that you cannot make some of those settings when shooting raw. Not sure, but that are a lot of settings you are not allowed to make under different conditions.

Zebras are very distracting, and you cannot get rid of them without underexposure. With the present implementation I feel they are pretty useless for stills.

Best regards
Erik

zebra works based on OOC JPG parameters so unless you remove variations about WB you can't be sure about that.

it is well known that to make zebra indicate a proper clipping in raw you need to use at least 3 simple settings with A7R2 :

WB = UniWB
Creative Style = Neutral (contrast -3, saturation -3, ...)
Zebra = 100+

if you want to trade green tint for greyscale image _AND_ be able to use "face detection" under a daylight (otherwise with Setting Effect = ON it will work under tungsten, but not under daylight - unlike Olympus where WB settings do not interfere with face detection) I also suggest an addition of a picture profile like (similar to) this on top :

Gamma = Cine3 (reason : allows ISO to be dialed below 800 unlike S-Log... Cine2 is also worth a try if you want)
Knee = Auto (or you can play with manual settings)
Saturation = -32 (this removes green tint too with Setting Effect = ON)
Color Mode = S-Gamut
Color Phase = 0
Color Depth = 0s
Black Gamma = Wide/+7 (just for a taste : darker areas = brighter)
Black Level = +15 (just for a taste : darker areas = brighter)

[AlterEgo]

I would guess that you cannot make some of those settings when shooting raw.

why 'd you guess that I am not writing from my own experience ? I am using that with Sony cameras since A7 days and A7R2 now and tested that with rawdigger when developed ? and before I used a similar setup with "blinkies" on E-M1... that is since late 2013.... and as you understand with such settings for OOC JPG one can only shot exactly "RAW"  ... now certainly you forego real colors in EVF with Setting Effect = ON, but I prefer to use my own eyes to look for the scene and EVF/LCD only for framing and exposure correction, etc... so I do not mind neither green nor grey only... with an additional benefit of not being distracted with colors actually.

[AlterEgo]

Zebras are very distracting, and you cannot get rid of them without underexposure.

not sure what do you mean - zebras in the setup above will show you clipping in raw...

With the present implementation I feel they are pretty useless for stills.

only when you don't know (apparently) how to use them

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Thanks for good input. I guess I need to look into some of that stuff.

Best regards
Erik

why 'd you guess that I am not writing from my own experience ? I am using that with Sony cameras since A7 days and A7R2 now and tested that with rawdigger when developed ? and before I used a similar setup with "blinkies" on E-M1... that is since late 2013.... and as you understand with such settings for OOC JPG one can only shot exactly "RAW"  ... now certainly you forego real colors in EVF with Setting Effect = ON, but I prefer to use my own eyes to look for the scene and EVF/LCD only for framing and exposure correction, etc... so I do not mind neither green nor grey only... with an additional benefit of not being distracted with colors actually.

[Manoli]

On some issues you may be wrong. Settings on lenses override menu items. So if lens switch is on AF you cannot get manual focus using camera settings. My preference would be to have camera settings having precedence over other settings.

Thanks Erik, I wasn't aware of that - the only FE native lenses I use are the 35 & 55 zony's. Out of curiosity does the same apply to Canon lenses with a MF/AF switch via the Metabones adapter ?

It will be interesting which 8 lens Sony will present. Right now I foresee the following combo:

- Zeiss Batis 25/4
- Zeiss Loxia 35/2 (with quite a few reservations based on MTF data on Zeiss)
- Sony 55/1.8
- Sony 90/2.8G (that I already have)

I briefly tried the Loxia 50 (not the 35) and found it superior to a Leica M 50 Summicron non-ASPH in the corners but just about it's equal in the centre, certainly not any better and given that it's a manual focus lens , didn't see any advantage to it over the Sony FE 55 which is markedly better than both.

Best,
M

[AlterEgo]

I guess I need to look into some of that stuff.

only __IF__ you are willing to live with UniWB effects ... note that picture profile used on top of 3 simple settings makes it less robust (with just them precise within 1/3 EV, with PP within ~1/2EV...2/3EV I say) - I only suggest that when you 1) prefer greyscale vs greenish and 2) want to use face a detection under a daylight ...

as for the face detection - if you are shooting portraiture then simple Eye AF/Face Detection with matrix metering will exposure facial skin ~2.7 EV under clipping in green /caucasian faces - others are hard to come by in my specific corner of appalachia/ channel (spot metering calibrated for ~3.7 EV under clipping for Sony) - so in that case you don't need to bother with zebras, knowing how camera will meter the face you are after and seeing if there are some brighter objects around (white gown, etc) you can pretty much guess what exposure comp to dial w/o zebras... that metering also work with TTL flashes of course.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Se comments below:

Thanks Erik, I wasn't aware of that - the only FE native lenses I use are the 35 & 55 zony's. Out of curiosity does the same apply to Canon lenses with a MF/AF switch via the Metabones adapter ?

I have only a Canon 24/3.5 TSELII that is manual focus. I still need to work out a lot of details regarding MF/AF.

I briefly tried the Loxia 50 (not the 35) and found it superior to a Leica M 50 Summicron non-ASPH in the corners but just about it's equal in the centre, certainly not any better and given that it's a manual focus lens , didn't see any advantage to it over the Sony FE 55 which is markedly better than both.

What I am looking for are lenses that match my Hasselblad lenses, image size taken into account. The Loxia 35 MTF curves are not that good. Sony unfortunately does not publish measured MTF data for 10, 20 and 40 lp/mm, so it is difficult to compare MTF data.

I got the impression the Sony 55/1.8 is very good, so that lens is on my shopping list.

Future will tell what lenses Sony will release in the coming months. Personally, I am more interested in moderate aperture lenses with high performance at medium aperture than very fast and very heavy lenses.

Best regards
Erik

[John Hollenberg]

it is well known that to make zebra indicate a proper clipping in raw you need to use at least 3 simple settings with A7R2 :

WB = UniWB
Creative Style = Neutral (contrast -3, saturation -3, ...)
Zebra = 100+

Can you tell me the simplest way to set UniWB on the a7r2?  I read the article on Jim Kasson's blog: http://blog.kasson.com/?page_id=2466

but I am left not knowing the quickest/easiest way to do this for the a7r2.

[AlterEgo]

Can you tell me the simplest way to set UniWB on the a7r2?  I read the article on Jim Kasson's blog: http://blog.kasson.com/?page_id=2466

but I am left not knowing the quickest/easiest way to do this for the a7r2.

I always use a very crude brute force mode - I start with some generic magenta color in photoshop, make a shot of the screen (defocused), my EyE-FI SD card then sends the raw to computer, then I check the multipliers (Sony Exif tag 0x7313 for example gives RGGB multipliers) and adjust the color to fill in the proper direction, redo... usually within several iterations (less than a dozen) I can come up within several % (less than 3-4%) of 1:1:1:1, that's good enough (for me).

[John Hollenberg]

I always use a very crude brute force mode - I start with some generic magenta color in photoshop, make a shot of the screen (defocused), my EyE-FI SD card then sends the raw to computer, then I check the multipliers (Sony Exif tag 0x7313 for example gives RGGB multipliers) and adjust the color to fill in the proper direction, redo... usually within several iterations (less than a dozen) I can come up within several % (less than 3-4%) of 1:1:1:1, that's good enough (for me).

OK, I am half way there.  For one, I am not sure which tag I am looking at (using RawDigger to see Exif).  Closest one looks like:

WB RGGB levels  2460 1024 1024 1620

What method are you using to set the white balance in the camera?

[AlterEgo]

OK, I am half way there.  For one, I am not sure which tag I am looking at (using RawDigger to see Exif).  Closest one looks like:

WB RGGB levels  2460 1024 1024 1620

yes, this is the one... there you are far away from UniWB as RED is 2+ times more than both greens and BLUE 1.5+ times more... so you need to drive both RED and BLUE multipliers to something close to 1024...

What method are you using to set the white balance in the camera?

the usual one though camera's menu to set a custom WB by shooting a target... in this case an image on your LCD screen, which is a simple magenta color filled area.