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Author Topic: Electronic shutter anyone?  (Read 1683 times)

texshooter

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Electronic shutter anyone?
« on: October 10, 2015, 07:24:32 pm »

I'm thinking of investing in an intro medium format camera solely for its high flash sync speed (thanks to leaf shutter lenses). However, because technology is advancing so quickly I was hoping that Canon might soon update their FF line with electronic shutters with sync speeds up to 1/8000 sec.  How long will I be waiting?
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Christoph B.

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 07:54:48 pm »

I think it'll be a long, long time until electronic shutters will be a useful implementation in the medium format sector.

Electronic shutters almost always degrade the image quality, even though it's just a little bit - and electronic shutters introduce artefacts when confronted with movements -  which is the reason why professional cameras are not equipped with electronic shutters, they have 'at best' hybrid shutters which are also necessary to protect the sensor from dust so it isn't exposed all the time (and if I remember correctly those cameras with hybrid shutters were primarily equipped with ccd sensors).

Of course those artefacts wouldn't be that visible at 1/8000 - but to be honest nobody really needs 1/8000 x-sync speed and I doubt anyone would want to pay extra for 1/8000 sync speed combined with artefacts when you use slower shutter speeds. Naturally you could use a leaf shutter lens as 1/1600 and below - but then what's the point of going below 1/1600? 1/1600 is plenty and that technology is already tested and proven.

The only real advantage is that electronic shutters have no moving parts, so basically they would last forever.
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texshooter

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 09:27:42 pm »


 but to be honest nobody really needs 1/8000 x-sync speed

Excusez-moi,  Try shooting portraits at high noon and at f1.4
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 09:32:52 pm by texshooter »
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petermfiore

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 09:42:51 pm »


The only real advantage is that electronic shutters have no moving parts, so basically they would last forever.

Also an electronic shutter is totally silent...That for me is a big advantage.

Peter

razrblck

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2015, 02:24:08 am »

If you are going to use an electronic shutter you also need to make it global, otherwise you'll have the rolling shutter effects even at 1/32000.

Mirrorless cameras with an electronic shutter employ a rolling shutter rather than global. Making a global shutter on a CMOS sensor is a bit expensive because of the added complexity and bandwidth requirements, so that is why we won't see that. I really can't imagine how much bandwidth one would need to push a 80MP image in one go out of a medium format sensor with an electronic global shutter.

Why does this matter? Because to have x-sync at such speeds you need it to be a global shutter, otherwise it's not different from a curtain shutter.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 12:16:10 pm »

My guess (i.e. Informed speculation) is 3-5 years for it to appear in full frame cameras of any kind, 5-7 years before it appears in flagship image-quality driven units.

Of course my opinion is subject to my own bias.

gazwas

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 06:08:03 pm »

Global shutters have been talked about for a couple of years from both Canon and Sony and I'm sure I've seen a patent for an APS-C global shutter from Canon on the usual rumour forums. A global shutter in a FF 35mm camera would be amazing never mind MFD. I'm sure the brains at Canon or Sony are the companies best positioned to do this with their experience in motion and we can't be more than 3 or 4 years off a working solution.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2015, 08:28:54 pm »

Making a global shutter on a CMOS sensor is a bit expensive because of the added complexity and bandwidth requirements, so that is why we won't see that.
no, we won't see that because global shutter requires storage on sensor die itself, near sensel wells = less DR and/or less MP... industrial cameras are using CMOS sensors with global storage for years, just because the target market is different... imagine Canon trying to sell a camera with even lesser DR or the same DR but twice less sensels  8)
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Miyata610

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Re: Electronic shutter anyone?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 08:52:56 pm »

Cmosis have been making full frame (in 135 terms) sensors for some time with global shutter.

http://www.cmosis.com/news/press_releases/cmosis_expands_its_cmv_global_shutter_cmos_image_sensor_family_with_a_new_2

It's described as "industrial" but I was under the impression that BMC use it in their cameras, as does the new Axiom project.

P.s. Does the silly anti spam measure disappear once you've posted a few times? I hate it. I'll stop posting now.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 08:58:33 pm by Miyata610 »
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