What’s gone in Lightroom CC 2015.2 and Lightroom 6.2 ?

[Simon Garrett]

Lightroom is doing Windows 8. Let's hope there is a Windows 10 trick coming.

You mean a partial, grudging retreat, but still leaving a UI that's a hotch potch of old and new (with different UI paradigms), and start menu back, but messed with because no way are they going to admit they were wrong?

[jjj]

You mean a partial, grudging retreat, but still leaving a UI that's a hotch potch of old and new (with different UI paradigms), and start menu back, but messed with because no way are they going to admit they were wrong?

Well that would at least be better than the current mess.

[adias]

Lightroom has never permitted the "move " option from cards, this is still the case today.

Good to know, however, the point of my post was to state my experience in not missing source files on an import. I never checked if a move option was even available, a bad thing in any case.

It would be helpful if there were other reports of missing files on a flash card data transfer in Lr...

[jjj]

I've had files not copy from cards whilst using LR.
Anything it won't recognise in the Library gets ignored, leading to potential data loss as I mentioned above.

[adias]

I've had files not copy from cards whilst using LR.
Anything it won't recognise in the Library gets ignored, leading to potential data loss as I mentioned above.

What does that mean? For example... if a card contains RAW images will some of those files be skipped? If a card contains both RAW images and JPEGS, will there be missing files of either kind?

[jjj]

No, it means what I said above. Twice.
Anything it won't recognise in the Library gets ignored, leading to potential data loss.

[adias]

No, it means what I said above. Twice.
Anything it won't recognise in the Library gets ignored, leading to potential data loss.

What is there to be recognized (and copied from a flash card) other than image files (RAW, JPEG)?

[IanSeward]

I think everyone should take a look here to see how the new Import UI is faring with users:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/new-update-6-2?page=1

Ian

[ButchM]

I think everyone should take a look here to see how the new Import UI is faring with users:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/new-update-6-2?page=1

Ian

Yes, and you can read here just how concerned and understanding the Lightroom manager is with all this 'feedback' ...

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/10/update-on-lightroom-2015-2-lightroom-6-2-release.html

I would love to see just how large the pool of new users where Adobe reps actually did visit new users in their homes to determine their choice to revamp the Import dialog. I'd be curious just how many instances it took to initiate the action for this move.

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to updates and/or streamlining the process ... but those concerns should not supersede established and existing capabilities without justifying the process. The replacement/improvement should hold value for all users, not a select few that have yet  to invested anything in the process.

Based upon the participation and content of the feedback forum, it really indicates that Adobe management is tone deaf and out of touch with a pretty significant cross-section of their existing user base.

[dreed]

Best thing to do seems to be to not install this update.

[jjj]

What is there to be recognized (and copied from a flash card) other than image files (RAW, JPEG)?

Well there are many kinds of movie files for a start. You could be importing from a phone and LR doesn't like the screen capture image file format and so on.

[jjj]

Yes, and you can read here just how concerned and understanding the Lightroom manager is with all this 'feedback' ...

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/10/update-on-lightroom-2015-2-lightroom-6-2-release.html

I commented on that yesterday it's still awaiting moderation. Not alone there going by some posts in the LR forum.

The thing I think the 'research' missed is that is was the concept of importing that is what confuses newbie LR users, not the import dialogue itself.

[Damon Lynch]

The thing I think the 'research' missed is that is was the concept of importing that is what confuses newbie LR users, not the import dialogue itself.

Not necessarily. Speaking as the author of a program that imports photos & videos to the computer, my experience of supporting photographers of varying levels of experience leads me to realize that what seems obvious to you and me might be bewildering or even totally unknown to others.

Personally I have a lot of empathy for the Lightroom team in this instance, because there clearly was a problem for new users with the original import process that needed to be fixed. The status quo was untenable. Hopefully they'll get their revisions right in the fullness of time, satisfying as many people as possible.

Meanwhile power users might like to investigate using photo & video importing tools that run independently of LR, leaving LR with only the final step and most basic step of importing the files into the catalogue.

[Simon Garrett]

Damon, jjj,

You're probably both right.  I've also had to design UIs for inexperienced users.  For complex tasks, there needs to be some way to deal with all types of user.  A well-designed UI is intuitive and not baffling to newcomers, but provides the additional functionality that more experienced users want.  Adobe seem to be saying that the previous interface pleased the second group but not the first.  Now they have something that (perhaps) pleases the first group but frustrates the second.  Neither can be counted on as a success. 

The new UI is pretty dire.  Just compare the look of the old and new at http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/10/update-on-lightroom-2015-2-lightroom-6-2-release.html.  You can't see images that you're importing properly: even selected images are greyed out and there's the huge check mark over them.  Many previous advanced options are hidden or missing. 

It looks like a early prototype design of a UI for newcomers to computing.  I'm quite sure they can do better.

[jjj]

Not necessarily. Speaking as the author of a program that imports photos & videos to the computer, my experience of supporting photographers of varying levels of experience leads me to realize that what seems obvious to you and me might be bewildering or even totally unknown to others.

Not sure why you assumed that. But I said the concept of importing was the problem not the dialogue, because when teaching people LR the database nature of the programme is the stumbling block for many. Not the import mechanism but the idea behind it. Which has nothing to do with how easy or hard I found something.

Personally I have a lot of empathy for the Lightroom team in this instance, because there clearly was a problem for new users with the original import process that needed to be fixed. The status quo was untenable. Hopefully they'll get their revisions right in the fullness of time, satisfying as many people as possible.

Maybe the correct way to fix that problem is to direct such users to Bridge/ACR as that has basically the same tools but without any importing needed, because Bridge isn't a database. Or have a little tutorial [as many programmes do] on how/why to import when first using LR.

[jjj]

You're probably both right.  I've also had to design UIs for inexperienced users.  For complex tasks, there needs to be some way to deal with all types of user.  A well-designed UI is intuitive and not baffling to newcomers, but provides the additional functionality that more experienced users want.

It's tricky to design an intuitive UI for an unfamiliar process. Why? 'Intuitive' in reality is almost always used incorrectly as a synonym for 'familiar' rather than its true sense of easy to understand/work out.  LR is based on a different way of working to one which most people are familiar with and that is what throws them.
Not saying the import dialogue couldn't have been improved by the way.

Adobe seem to be saying that the previous interface pleased the second group but not the first.  Now they have something that (perhaps) pleases the first group but frustrates the second.  Neither can be counted on as a success.

The new dialogue is full of issues which will lead to an increase in mistakes and errors for both old and new users. The new users won't realise the problems with dialogue rejig as they are well new, so may be fooled into thinking it works for them

[ButchM]

... because there clearly was a problem for new users with the original import process that needed to be fixed.

That's all well and good ... I don't think anyone would deny that making improvements and/or simplifying and streamlining the process of importing files is a unwise move on Adobe's part. Though the removal of capabilities that even Adobe once thought valuable (or why were they ever included previously?) should be troubling to everyone. More importantly, these were capabilities that many current users have come to rely upon in their daily tasks ... and indeed they PAID for the capabilities. The arbitrary unannounced removal of these capabilities is purely incredulous and illustrates just how out of touch some of these decision makers really are with many of their customers.

[smahn]

I don't see why they couldn't simply have a Basic and Advanced tab/button to satisfy both sets of users.

[ButchM]

I don't see why they couldn't simply have a Basic and Advanced tab/button to satisfy both sets of users.

Another item I find curious, in the early tutorial videos from Julianne Kost and Laura Shoe, they both go over the nuts and bolts of the how-to of the new Import dialog .... and the list of what is gone ... seems to be longer than the list of what remains. I also find it curious that neither of these reputable, established instructors really didn't step up and extol the virtues of this new dialog as compared to the previous ... both of whom have a historical record of pointing out such value previously.

[Rory]

Who is the final decision maker at Adobe for Lightroom?  From what I have seen in the past it is not the product manager, but rather a key, influential engineer.  We all know who calls the shots for ACR.