Sony A7rII tethered with LiveView questions

[E_Edwards]

I'd like to buy a Sony A7rII to use tethered and with Live View on a monitor (not on the camera LCD). Apparently there are some problems from what I've read in various places.

Can anyone confirm the following?

Apparently it is not possible to simultaneously use this camera tethered with USB and with an HDMI monitor, it's either one or the other.

CaptureOne 8.3.3 seems to support it tethered with Live View, but I read somewhere that:

-The orientation of the live view cannot be changed, it stays horizontal in C1, even when you turn the camera to portrait orientation.

-In C1, the zooming in and out of the live view image inside the window is possible, but the zooming needs to be initiated from a button on the camera and not from the Live View window in CaptureOne.

Could someone confirm these points please, if this is true, I'll pass on this camera, or wait till the problems are resolved.

Thanks


Edward

[ctz]

Yes, I can confirm all these problems.
@Chris Barrett managed to simultaneously use a HDMI monitor plus C1 on another display, as I understand there are some settings that need to be tweaked in the camera menus. But I didn't find them, however I switched them back and forth.
Otherwise, the Live View in C1 is a lot better than what I have seen from Phase backs (you can't really compare them, Sony is way better) but I still would want more from Sony. In studio environment and with lens stopped down the feed is ok, but the details have still big room for improvement.
Indeed, you simply cannot rotate an image in portrait mode in C1 Live View. A lot of people asked on Phase forums to have at least a manual rotation option, but the guys from Phase replied that this is a problem from Sony SDK. HA HA HA. No kidding, Phase, so you cannot rotate a f*cking content of your program window...
For me, still, A7RII is still a lot better to use than my old P45+ and I don't regret the switch for a second, workflow or IQ wise.
In fact, I'll put a sale post soon. For P45+

[bdp]

I can't confirm the HDMI/USB thing, but I just connected my camera and launched Capture One and unfortunately all those things you mentioned are true.

The lack of portrait orientation is the worst one for me. Makes it fairly useless if you're shooting for a magazine/book cover, for example, which is one likely scenario where an owner would be shooting tethered in a studio, where you might need an overlay for title etc.

Hopefully this can be addressed in future updates of C1.

Ben

[E_Edwards]

This is so bad!  Generally, in a studio still life set up, probably around 90 per cent of pictures are taken with portrait orientation. As you say, it doesn't seem too impossible for developers to write some code to rotate the video by 90 degrees instead of waiting for Sony to implement this.

Also with the zooming, can you imagine having to go to the camera and press a button every time you want to zoom on the LiveView? It's just too primitive and unworkable in a busy shooting environment.

But it is quite possible that the SDK doesn't include these functions and that there is no easy way unless it comes from Sony themselves.

Maybe we'll have to wait till Nikon adopt this sensor and launch a new camera that can actually be useful in the studio…

Edward

[ctz]

Also with the zooming, can you imagine having to go to the camera and press a button every time you want to zoom on the LiveView? It's just too primitive and unworkable in a busy shooting environment.

Maybe we'll have to wait till Nikon adopt this sensor and launch a new camera that can actually be useful in the studio…

Edward

I accustomed myself very easily to pressing that button, in fact is easier, as you are closer to the camera than to computer most of the time
Also, when HDMI will be available during tethering (I'm sure it will, sooner or later) this will be the only way to zoom in and out.

Nikons. They have their problem too, if you browse the Capture One forums. And also some blame games from Phase, based on the same castrated SDKs.
For me, as a product shooter, I just need to have the camera/sensor mounted on a... view camera, so Nikon was out of the question (because of the large mirror box), only mirrorless does cut it in my case.

[E_Edwards]

Indeed I shoot with view cameras in the studio, mainly Leaf backs, and I tried my Nikon d800e as well as the Sony A7r on the view camera with a back plate adaptor, so I could test them with the same lens (Schneider Digitar 120 macro).

The Nikon and the Sony sensors were practically identical.

The Leaf Aptus65 was still better in terms of capturing detail (not by much), but I thought the A7rII may have bridged the gap….possibly.

As for the workflow, everybody works differently. Once I set up, I like to do all the focussing and movement adjustments sitting down in front of the computer and just reaching the view camera knobs from that position as I focus carefully on the monitor. It would slow me considerably if I had to get up and start pressing camera buttons to zoom in and out, move to another image area, adjust movements, refocus and so on, but I am sure I could live with it if the camera orientation was sorted out.

Your p45 should be more or less similar in image quality (fine localised detail) to my Leaf. Do you find the A7rII better in that respect?

Edward

[ctz]

Indeed I shoot with view cameras in the studio, mainly Leaf backs, and I tried my Nikon d800e as well as the Sony A7r on the view camera with a back plate adaptor, so I could test them with the same lens (Schneider Digitar 120 macro).

Your p45 should be more or less similar in image quality (fine localised detail) to my Leaf. Do you find the A7rII better in that respect?

Edward

I didn't make any scientific tests, but my subjective feel is that Sony is just a bit better, IQ wise. And, for me, much better workflow wise.
But my retouchers say that they like quite a lot more the Sony files. My suggestion is to at least try it for yourself.

[E_Edwards]

So why worry about C-1, can't you just use this:

http://briansmith.com/how-to-tether-sony-a7-a7r-a7s/

For live view if I used a Sony I'd do like Chris and have a broadcast hdmi monitor on set with a swivel stand mounted to a magliner.


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For the A7r, yes, an HDMI monitor is fine, as well as at the same time tethering to the computer just like Brian Smith does.

However, the problem is that apparently with the new A7rii, you just can't do this, it doesn't work. You either have the HDMI monitor, or the USB tethering, but not both.

I haven't tested this myself, but others have and they are still waiting for an answer from Sony. I don't want to buy this camera just to find out for myself, I already bought the A7r to use it just once and discover that it's not a camera I like, so it's sitting on a shelf looking pretty until I am bothered to put it on Ebay.

Edward

[eronald]

If you need to shoot fixed scenes, step animation software usually has superb liveview capabilities.

Edmund

[BobDavid]

The person to follow on anything Sony is Brian Smith.

So why worry about C-1, can't you just use this:

http://briansmith.com/how-to-tether-sony-a7-a7r-a7s/

For live view if I used a Sony I'd do like Chris and have a broadcast hdmi monitor on set with a swivel stand mounted to a magliner.

Now I'm not a Phase One disliker,) I've owned three of their backs, but I think they play way too many protectionist games.

The latest being locking out P+ users to their new camera.    I thought that was a bad move, considering phase screamed for years about open platforms (targeting the H series Hasselblad).

This is not issue for me as I use the Contax, but I would have hated to buy a new P65+ and have a dealer kind of wink and say Phase is working on a new camera.

______________________________

A while back we had the pressured project of all pressured projects.   The brief was to shoot studio lifestyle, moving fast, kids, families, business, in all major countries ethnic origins, then mixed together.

It was a weeks schedule and the creative brief was about 40 pages, to be shot in catalog production speed with advertising quality.

We had 5 wardrobe artists, two makeup and hair teams and nobody got more than a 30 minute break.

So I bought a 1dx and was either going to shoot my Phase backs or the Canon 1dx.  After a lighting test we went with the 1dx for speed and focus.

The beauty of the 1dx is it tethers with ethernet, which is amazingly reliable so we plugged it into C-1 and it wouldn't work.  Called the dealer, actually called two dealers and both said ethernet is not supported, so we tested it using usb, but it was flaky, so we went back to ethernet with DPP, using Bridge to check focus (very fast) on set and rate files.

We were running two digital tech stations (for stills) and one dit station for RED digital cinema cameras. 

For the stills we captured and ran all the files into a networked Raid 5 to the first station, connected to the second tech team with two AD's and a marketing manager who made selects.   At the end of each day, we would markup the selects and sent them through two fios fiber optics to our retouch team in NY who would retouch and build soft masks for outlines, (when required) and then send the layered psds back to us for check and coloration matching.

At the end of 7 days we pushed over 2.5 terabytes on line from us to the retoucher, back to us, then to the client's pre press who soft proofed, then sent us any corrections and well, back and forth.  Around 140 selects.

For the motion files, another AD watched the hdmi monitor, picked takes that was set by the continuity person and we processed the files with in and out points,  in cine-x, to proress 442 and that was another terabyte we pushed out the following week.

For stills we shot over 9,000 files and never had one drop off, or corrupt file with dpp, processing in lightroom.

It was one of those projects where if one thing went down, it would have gone of schedule quickly, so it had to go smooth and it did.

At that stage my studios had 5 C-1 licenses and we were always very familiar and impressed with most of the C-1 versions, but after the no ethernet thing, we just forgot about C-1 except when we shoot Phase backs.

I sold my p30+ after buying the Leica because I never used it, will always keep my p21+ because I like it and am zoned into it, mostly because I love the Contax.

Now we use the Leica with Leica image shuttle through lemo connectors to a lightroom, auto import folder.  (much like Brian's sony instructions).  Combining it with the 1dx keeps us in one base workflow and with multiple techs everyone is on the same page.

I don't blame phase for not tethering the Leica (though I don't think Phase's cameras are really competing with the Leica), but I do think that given the Leica is dng, c-1 should accept the file with adequate profiles for processing.

It's no skin off my nose as I have a ton of profiles I use in lightroom, HMI, tungesten, daylight, flash, mixed, etc.  and have great results and Phase has a right to run their company any way they want.

But since I have a good workflow for the Leica, if I buy another larger than 35mm camera, it will be an 007, as I can still use my contax lenses, or H lenses and shoot a little pick up video on the side.

IMO

BC

I'm thinking "Swiss watches" in re the amount of coordination, workflow, back-and-forth between your studio, the client, and the retouch artists. Sheesh. What antacid do you prefer?

[peter_c]

However, the problem is that apparently with the new A7rii, you just can't do this, it doesn't work. You either have the HDMI monitor, or the USB tethering, but not both.

Edward

This issue has been resolved with the recent firmware update; one can now run C1 tethered and a separate viewing monitor via HDMI.  BUT the current C1 8.3.3 does not play well, when tethered to capture the new uncompressed raw format.  When set to raw only, the captures are not displayed although they are captured.  When set to raw and jpg, the jpg is OK but a corrupt version of a previous compressed raw file is displayed, although the proper uncompressed raw is captured; pretty disconcerting.  I presume a C1 update will accommodate the new uncompressed format.

[ctz]

Indeed, the original concern of this post is now solved. I already shot two sessions with HDMI combined to Capture One tethtering on USB. Flawlessly. HDMI mirroring is so much better than Phase's Live View. Not perfect, but a lot better.
About the problem with the uncompressed Sony RAW, Phase One promised a quick update on their forum. Let's see how fast are they gonna release the new version.