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Author Topic: On democracy  (Read 10979 times)

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2015, 04:04:50 am »

There is one important fact missing in the above posts. The nuclear deterrent in the UK - Trident and Polaris before it - isn't independent. They are are wholly owned by the US which means that the UK is only a launching platform for the US. No UK prime minister will ever get to press that button. The US decides if it gets used and NOT the UK. The UK pays massively for that privilege. Believe me I know what I am talking about. :(

Not totally missing, see my post above. The USS Great Britain has been one of America's fleet of unsinkable aircraft carriers pretty much since the end of WWII and it's a nonsense to think that any British Prime Minister has the say on whether the nukes are fired or not. Corbyn is simply being honest, he hasn't a button to push, nor has Cameron. You can see why the establishment hates the new Labour Leader so much, he's started blowing their cosy little pretences, long may it continue.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 04:09:54 am by Justinr »
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stamper

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2015, 04:19:01 am »

Not totally missing, see my post above. The USS Great Britain has been one of America's fleet of unsinkable aircraft carriers pretty much since the end of WWII and it's a nonsense to think that any British Prime Minister has the say on whether the nukes are fired or not. Corbyn is simply being honest, he hasn't a button to push, nor has Cameron. You can see why the establishment hates the new Labour Leader so much, he's started blowing their cosy little pretences, long may it continue.

The difference between what you are stating is that you are stating an opinion and I am stating a fact. I was once involved with the nuclear deterrent. Nuff said.

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2015, 04:23:30 am »

The difference between what you are stating is that you are stating an opinion and I am stating a fact. I was once involved with the nuclear deterrent. Nuff said.

Oooh Sorreeee!
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stamper

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2015, 05:35:48 am »

Oooh Sorreeee!

It wasn't a put down. I was trying to state I know - in this rare case - what I am talking about.

Rob C

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2015, 05:50:44 am »

It wasn't a put down. I was trying to state I know - in this rare case - what I am talking about.

Don't we all believe that we do?

I spent nine years in factories, in one capacity or another, yet my first-hand knowledge of shop-floor industrial labour manipulation goes for nothing. I lived through stikes, 'scab' insults and all of the rest of it. What did I learn? The 'man in the street' is dumber than most of the dogs that I have loved, and at whose deaths I have wept.

Rob C

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2015, 05:54:31 am »

It wasn't a put down. I was trying to state I know - in this rare case - what I am talking about.

And I don't?

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Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2015, 05:58:24 am »

Don't we all believe that we do?

I spent nine years in factories, in one capacity or another, yet my first-hand knowledge of shop-floor industrial labour manipulation goes for nothing. I lived through stikes, 'scab' insults and all of the rest of it. What did I learn? The 'man in the street' is dumber than most of the dogs that I have loved, and at whose deaths I have wept.

Rob C

It takes two to have an argument and neither side were angels, a lot (not all) of UK management was basically crap and they got what they deserved. The whole history of England is based on an us and them philosophy, industrial relations of the seventies and eighties were just another symptom of it.
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stamper

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2015, 06:09:08 am »

And I don't?



This time I think we are both in agreement? ;)

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2015, 06:12:51 am »

This time I think we are both in agreement? ;)

If you are inferring that I don't know what I am on about then you could at least do the kindness of explaining just what it is about  my posts that you find so wrong?
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stamper

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2015, 06:32:35 am »








I stated that you were giving an opinion which was essentially subjective. I was stating that I knew the "truth". We are are both in agreement so there isn't a problem and we are both on the same side of the "argument"? The inference was we disagreed on AE in cameras.






i

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2015, 06:46:50 am »







I stated that you were giving an opinion which was essentially subjective. I was stating that I knew the "truth". We are are both in agreement so there isn't a problem and we are both on the same side of the "argument"? The inference was we disagreed on AE in cameras.






i

And I was asking how you came to conclusion that I don't know what the truth is. The fact you think I am giving an opinion is only an opinion in itself as you have failed to back it up with any hard evidence.

What this has to do with AE is beyond me, but for the record I am not at all swayed that AE on many dSLR's works to a satisfactory level of performance. Blubber on about it as much as you like, that 'opinion' is based on hard earned experience of myself and some colleagues who do the same sort of work.
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Rob C

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2015, 10:01:55 am »

For some inexplicable reason this reminds me of the parable about the little fox that had its tail cut off: it wanted all the other little foxes to have theirs cut off too.

Rob C

AlterEgo

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2015, 10:17:48 am »

AlterEgo,

Individually, yes, but collectively there is an obligation to "...restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." Member states can't all do nothing.

as you understand it is just enough that one certain member will deem it not necessary to do anything militarily for selfish reasons  ;D ... "restore and maintain" again does not mean a military response... negotiations can do the same

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Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2015, 10:28:40 am »

as you understand it is just enough that one certain member will deem it not necessary to do anything militarily for selfish reasons  ;D ... "restore and maintain" again does not mean a military response... negotiations can do the same

If anyone goes letting off nuclear fireworks it all becomes pretty much academic anyway as the world will basically be sizzled by the time someone from the 'other lot' has fired a few back in retaliation. It's an all or nothing situation.
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Rob C

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2015, 10:38:33 am »

If anyone goes letting off nuclear fireworks it all becomes pretty much academic anyway as the world will basically be sizzled by the time someone from the 'other lot' has fired a few back in retaliation. It's an all or nothing situation.


And therein lies the beauty!

Cuba was close... comes a time when it's better to go than become slaves. At the time we all held our breath - but we knew standing up was the only thing to do.

;-)

Rob C

Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2015, 10:44:49 am »


And therein lies the beauty!

Cuba was close... comes a time when it's better to go than become slaves. At the time we all held our breath - but we knew standing up was the only thing to do.

;-)

Rob C

MAD. But I think it's been mentioned before that the US had a good idea that much of the Russian whizz bangs didn't actually work.
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Rob C

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2015, 11:46:04 am »

MAD. But I think it's been mentioned before that the US had a good idea that much of the Russian whizz bangs didn't actually work.


You'd prefer the craven life of the lowered eye and slave?

Rob C

AreBee

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2015, 12:01:12 pm »

AlterEgo,

Quote
..."restore and maintain" again does not mean a military response... negotiations can do the same

Article 5 was invoked following a non-nuclear terrorist attack on the USA on 11 September 2001. The outcome was not negotiation.

Now consider a nuclear strike.
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AlterEgo

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2015, 12:01:31 pm »


You'd prefer the craven life of the lowered eye and slave?

Rob C

pure rhetoric nowadays...
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Justinr

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Re: On democracy
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2015, 12:01:38 pm »


You'd prefer the craven life of the lowered eye and slave?

Rob C

I'll give you your due Rob, you have a very vivid imagination,
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