PhaseOne XF

[Theodoros]

I do strictly landscapes

If I was doing the same, I would go for A7ii & Actus combination, if you insist on using an MFDB, I would go for Fuji GX-680 with Hasselblad V fit back and a Kapture group stitching adapter, if I was prepared to spend more, then Hasselblad H5X with HTS 1.5x would be my choice...

[jduncan]

It's funny how the game has been completely reversed btwn Hassy and P1 in one year.

Who would have thought that Hassy would be praised for its openess?

Cheers,
Bernard

In my eyes, but that is not the most funny part: The point is all the guys that were talking about openness and recommended the super broken old cameras, now that is P1, suddenly don't care.
This remember me of sports team  (is penalty depending of the team you are in) or politics, nationalism . We went to the moon, but humanity still has a lot of the tribe on us.

Best regards

[jduncan]

I don't see a "tough choice" Mike... one camera works with all market backs, the other with P1 IQ only... One of the cameras can be used with film... the other can't, one camera can do multishot with some backs, the other doesn't... With one of them you can keep your back, with the other not!

The point is :One has a company that has a track record of believing in the system and the other we don't know. Hasselblad seems to be on the "milking until death" mode. To serious investment, no risk. We can't say that of phase one.
Some examples:

1. No usb3, they introduced the H5D with a new more solidly connected firewire cable. So minimal investment.
2. Years and years and since true focus they have not introduced a new compelling feature to the camera. They wait until P1 match them and in many cases surpass them. They were busy building stellars.
3. Since the introduction of the H1 series they have no redesigned the shutter on the H series cameras. For this time the shutter should be electronic and above  1/800.

The system is still good, and it's the one I will choose (I rater rent) but the choice is not easy.  Don't get me wrong, your points are all solid but the company commitment is in question.
Have you notice any activity from Hasselblad people here lately or in GetDPI ?
Finally we have the negotiation power: The try to get an especial relation with Sony and they got nothing.  They try to get access to the  80mpixels Dalsa sensor and they never got it.
I could continue.  Is sad because of your points.

Best regards,

[Theodoros]

The point is :One has a company that has a track record of believing in the system and the other we don't know. Hasselblad seems to be on the "milking until death" mode. To serious investment, no risk. We can't say that of phase one.
Some examples:

1. No usb3, they introduced the H5D with a new more solidly connected firewire cable. So minimal investment.
2. Years and years and since true focus they have not introduced a new compelling feature to the camera. They wait until P1 match them and in many cases surpass them. They were busy building stellars.
3. Since the introduction of the H1 series they have no redesigned the shutter on the H series cameras. For this time the shutter should be electronic and above  1/800.

The system is still good, and it's the one I will choose (I rater rent) but the choice is not easy.  Don't get me wrong, your points are all solid but the company commitment is in question.
Have you notice any activity from Hasselblad people here lately or in GetDPI ?
Finally we have the negotiation power: The try to get an especial relation with Sony and they got nothing.  They try to get access to the  80mpixels Dalsa sensor and they never got it.
I could continue.  Is sad because of your points.

Best regards,

I believe that's not fare for Hasselblad... They did all the wrong things about a decade ago and there was a big (financial) penalty for their decisions... and now that it's the other way around (they started correcting some of the bad and P1 started doing all the wrong things in return), some people recall Hasselblad's past and don't mention P1's continuous recent mistakes... I guess it's their turn to be penalized by the market...

[eronald]

The problem with everyone except Leica is that their body engineering and optics simply do not match their price. Phase, to their credit have tried, but they are now really expensive, Hassy have long had a good product but it could do with some updates, they underinvested in the system, and Pentax doesn't have a decent lens range yet, although their body is modern and prices in Europe are now really drifting down. Pentax is definitely a "value proposition". Leica have really nice engineering, fully up to date, and wonderful lenses - at prices that are miraculously  reasonable - by their standards.

Edmund

I believe that's not fare for Hasselblad... They did all the wrong things about a decade ago and there was a big (financial) penalty for their decisions... and now that it's the other way around (they started correcting some of the bad and P1 started doing all the wrong things in return), some people recall Hasselblad's past and don't mention P1's continuous recent mistakes... I guess it's their turn to be penalized by the market...

[synn]

Leica 70mm CS: USD 6250
https://www.digitalback.com/product/leica-summarit-s-70mm-f2-5-asph-cs/

schneider 80mm LS: USD 2990
https://www.digitalback.com/product/schneider-kreuznach-80-mm-ls-f2-8-af-2/

Leica 120mm TS: USD 7550
https://www.digitalback.com/product/leica-ts-apo-elmar-s-120mm-f5-6-asph/

Schneider 120mm TS: USD 5690 ( basically the same lens)
https://www.digitalback.com/product/schneider-kreuznach-120-mm-mf-ts-f5-6-2/

Leica 24mm focal plane shutter: USD 9250
https://www.digitalback.com/product/leica-super-elmar-s-24mm-f3-5-asph/

Schneider 28mm LS: USD 5990
https://www.digitalback.com/product/schneider-kreuznach-28-mm-ls-f4-5-af-3/

Leica 30mm CS: USD 8750
https://www.digitalback.com/product/leica-elmarit-s-30mm-f2-8-asph-cs/

Schneider 35mm LS (all new design): USD 6490
https://www.digitalback.com/product/schneider-kreuznach-35mm-ls-f3-5/

Leica S lens caps: USD 70-90
https://www.digitalback.com/product/leica-s-front-lens-caps/

Mamiya lens caps: USD 16-48
https://www.digitalback.com/product/mamiya-front-lens-caps/



And for every contax lens that can be used on the Leica with an expensive adapter, there are legacy mamiya lenses that can be used straightaway.

You must be talking about some Chinese Leica when you mention all those non existent reasonably priced lenses.

[Manoli]

You must be talking about some Chinese Leica when you mention all those non existent reasonably priced lenses.

Synn,

Thanks the links - made me do a quick check.
Bottom line is a Leica S (body only equivalent) - type006 CCD is approx $6,500 NEW, full Leica cover
Leica S (006) with Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH approx ($10,300)
PhaseOne XF with IQ140 and SK 80, $20,000+ (price is € only and varies based on daily € fluctuations)

--

Leica S-E (Typ 006) Body + Summarit 70mm f2.5
£ 7,999.00 - VAT excl: £ 6,665.8   ($10,330)

Leica S (Typ 007) Body Only
£ 12,900.00 - VAT excl: £ 10,750.00  ($16,666)

Maestro II Processor
Cine 4k Video
Live View and Tethering
Focus Peaking

--

Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH
£ 3,150.00 - VAT excl: £ 2,625.00  ($4,070)

Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH. CS
£ 4,365.00 - VAT excl:  £ 3,637.50 ($5,640)

Leica Summicron-S 100mm f2 ASPH
£ 5,200.00 - VAT excl:  £ 4,333.33  ($6,700)

Leica Apo-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f2.5
£ 4,970.00 - VAT excl: £ 4,141.67 ($6,400)


http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/s-bodies/7624-leica-s-e-typ-006.html

--

Only 2 drawbacks,
* back and body not separately upgradeable,
* not natively captureone compatible ( but most pros seem to have got over that one ... )

--

Edit:
and you need to like a soupçon of grey on black ...

[vjbelle]

Is the Cambo Actus with Sony camera body a viable alternative? I am worried about the small size of the control knobs making it hard to kind of slow and fussy in the field?

The Cambo Actus with DB is an option and all of the lenses you are interested will be available in Copal 0 mount at considerable savings.  Just check prices at B&H large format lenses. 

Victor

[eronald]

I think the Phase One guys must be tearing out their hair after the Leica price got lowered and Leica bought Sinar. Leica seems to be turning themselves into a real camera company again. And then of course the "SK" Phase lenses seem mostly a rebadge operation, while the Leica lenses are the real thing.

Edmund

Synn,

Thanks the links - made me do a quick check.
Bottom line is a Leica S (body only equivalent) - type006 CCD is approx $6,500 NEW, full Leica cover
Leica S (006) with Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH approx ($10,300)
PhaseOne XF with IQ140 and SK 80, $20,000+ (price is € only and varies based on daily € fluctuations)

--

Leica S-E (Typ 006) Body + Summarit 70mm f2.5
£ 7,999.00 - VAT excl: £ 6,665.8   ($10,330)

Leica S (Typ 007) Body Only
£ 12,900.00 - VAT excl: £ 10,750.00  ($16,666)

Maestro II Processor
Cine 4k Video
Live View and Tethering
Focus Peaking

--

Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH
£ 3,150.00 - VAT excl: £ 2,625.00  ($4,070)

Leica Summarit-S 70mm f2.5 ASPH. CS
£ 4,365.00 - VAT excl:  £ 3,637.50 ($5,640)

Leica Summicron-S 100mm f2 ASPH
£ 5,200.00 - VAT excl:  £ 4,333.33  ($6,700)

Leica Apo-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f2.5
£ 4,970.00 - VAT excl: £ 4,141.67 ($6,400)


http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/s-bodies/7624-leica-s-e-typ-006.html

--

Only 2 drawbacks,
* back and body not separately upgradeable,
* not natively captureone compatible ( but most pros seem to have got over that one ... )

--

Edit:
and you need to like a soupçon of grey on black ...

[Theodoros]

The real pain, will be by the time that Sinar will re-introduce a self contained back based on the the very same sensor as S007... Then, a big part of the market will have the opportunity to choose a number of very good MF platforms (C645, H2F, H4X, H5X) at S/H or new prices and have their lenses fully compatible with S-007 (and future 008 , 009 etc) and even share the same lenses on a new compact design Sinar, that will challenge the Actus and the Universallis...

Imagine this... a photographer that does everything (movements, low light DSLR shooting, multishot stills, Cinema... whatever...) with only 3-4 (top quality) lenses that are compatible with all aspects of photography... It's not only the photographer's "dream" as far as practicality and manouvrability is concerned... It most probably going to cost him (or her) a third of the cost than if one invests on a P1 system and also needs a different system (with different lenses) to use his back with a view camera and then needs a DSLR (with more different lenses) to match the Leica S flexibility...