Hasselblad H5 X

[Mike Sellers]

Anyone using one of these? Opinions?
Mike

[Bo Dez]

I feel like it's better but next the new Phase XF it feels a bit dated. But it's better, more refined, doesn't freeze up so much. Feels and looks better (except for the silly colour - just make it black for crying out loud!). Materials and finish feel a bit more fine, it feels a bit more tighter, like the tolerances have improved. Works better with Phase Backs - I don't get the errors I used to constantly get with them. But the focus is still as average-bad as it was.

[Theodoros]

H5-X is about the only camera one can buy new today and use any MFDB on it or even film... No competition really... and no other "open" camera platform either. 

[JV]

H5-X is about the only camera one can buy new today and use any MFDB on it or even film... No competition really... and no other "open" camera platform either.

It even supports Phase One P+ backs which the XF doesn't do anymore...

I can't speak for the H5X but I do own the H4X and although I don't use it much anymore it is an excellent and very reliable camera.  Personally I find the AF to be very good. 

[douglevy]

Yup - what everyone else said. Been using it about a year, AF is a HUGE step up from the H1, love it.

[buckshot]

It even supports Phase One P+ backs which the XF doesn't do anymore...

To think of the crap HB took when they locked out non-HB DB users ... and now, having returned to an open system (passing P1 going in the opposite direction in the process), HB have the only solution to P/P+ users wanting to use a decent SLR body. Amazing.

What corporate thinking led P1 to come to the decision to lock out a large proportion of their user base is beyond me - did they think we're all going to run out and upgrade to an IQ? Or a Credo? Hang on a sec, the Credo line doesn't work either.

And all they had to do was engineer a simple a wake-up signal ...

Oh dear.

[eronald]

To think of the crap HB took when they locked out non-HB DB users ... and now, having returned to an open system (passing P1 going in the opposite direction in the process), HB have the only solution to P/P+ users wanting to use a decent SLR body. Amazing.

What corporate thinking led P1 to come to the decision to lock out a large proportion of their user base is beyond me - did they think we're all going to run out and upgrade to an IQ? Or a Credo? Hang on a sec, the Credo line doesn't work either.

And all they had to do was engineer a simple a wake-up signal ...

Oh dear.

It's pretty obvious the capability is there. But locked.

Edmund

[synn]

To think of the crap HB took when they locked out non-HB DB users ... and now, having returned to an open system (passing P1 going in the opposite direction in the process), HB have the only solution to P/P+ users wanting to use a decent SLR body. Amazing.

What corporate thinking led P1 to come to the decision to lock out a large proportion of their user base is beyond me - did they think we're all going to run out and upgrade to an IQ? Or a Credo? Hang on a sec, the Credo line doesn't work either.

And all they had to do was engineer a simple a wake-up signal ...

Oh dear.

First of all, Phase has gone on record saying that Credo support is coming soon. I have independently gotten assurances from two dealers for the same.

Are any other manufacturers making backs for the Mamiya platform? As far as I know, nobody is. Nobody did, even when the DF+ was around.

This is a very different situation from Hasselblad locking a body and back together so that one couldn't even use another Hasselblad back on the Hasselblad body they had purchased.

[Theodoros]

First of all, Phase has gone on record saying that Credo support is coming soon. I have independently gotten assurances from two dealers for the same.

Are any other manufacturers making backs for the Mamiya platform? As far as I know, nobody is. Nobody did, even when the DF+ was around.

This is a very different situation from Hasselblad locking a body and back together so that one couldn't even use another Hasselblad back on the Hasselblad body they had purchased.

Sinar makes the backs for Mamiya mount... but anyway, it's not only P series backs that are not supported, it's also older Imacon and Hasselblad CF backs as well as Sinar E-motion backs.... I guess the owners of such backs that are very happy with them, will be highly dissapointed with P1's decision... Clearly not a wise marketing choice for P-1... My guess is that it will be penalized my the market the same as HB was...

[Peter Devos]

((Posted by Synn).....This is a very different situation from Hasselblad locking a body and back together so that one couldn't even use another Hasselblad back on the Hasselblad body they had purchased.....)

One could always use any H4d or H3dII back on any H3dII or H4d camera. The only thing that was missing is the "extreme calibration"... but neither Phase nor Leaf ever had such a level of integration between back and body. I often swapped my H3dII back on a H4d body, works fin :-)

[synn]

Sinar makes the backs for Mamiya mount... but anyway, it's not only P series backs that are not supported, it's also older Imacon and Hasselblad CF backs as well as Sinar E-motion backs.... I guess the owners of such backs that are very happy with them, will be highly dissapointed with P1's decision... Clearly not a wise marketing choice for P-1... My guess is that it will be penalized my the market the same as HB was...

I can't speak about their business plan, but I am hazarding a guess that the number of older Imacon, Hasselblad and Sinar back owners who were waiting for P1 to release a modern body is nowhere as high the number of Phase/ Mamiya owners waiting for the same. The ROI for engineering the necessary protocols for a handful of legacy system owners probably just isn't there.

Now, could they have reverse engineered P+ and Aptus II support? That they could very well have. And this I see as a valid argument. But not legacy support for third party manufacturers who had a marginal installbase on the Phamiya platform to begin with.

[synn]

((Posted by Synn).....This is a very different situation from Hasselblad locking a body and back together so that one couldn't even use another Hasselblad back on the Hasselblad body they had purchased.....)

One could always use any H4d or H3dII back on any H3dII or H4d camera. The only thing that was missing is the "extreme calibration"... but neither Phase nor Leaf ever had such a level of integration between back and body. I often swapped my H3dII back on a H4d body, works fin :-)

This is news for me. Back when I was shopping around for a medium format kit, the friendly neighborhood Hasselblad dealer catagorically stated that this is not possible.

[synn]

http://photorumors.com/2015/10/04/rumors-hasselblad-could-be-purchased-by-phase-one/

Maybe Hasselblad users would get their wish afterall...

[Theodoros]

I can't speak about their business plan, but I am hazarding a guess that the number of older Imacon, Hasselblad and Sinar back owners who were waiting for P1 to release a modern body is nowhere as high the number of Phase/ Mamiya owners waiting for the same. The ROI for engineering the necessary protocols for a handful of legacy system owners probably just isn't there.

Now, could they have reverse engineered P+ and Aptus II support? That they could very well have. And this I see as a valid argument. But not legacy support for third party manufacturers who had a marginal installbase on the Phamiya platform to begin with.

You seem to give a "strange" explanation for P1's behavior... The subject is not how many customers there are that would consider replacing their older platform for a modern one by Phamyia, nor how many could buy the platform and choose a S/H cheap back until they build the system up... It's not how well users of modern IQ or Credo backs are served either... It is rather that serving to the max the customers that will use an IQ back, doesn't mean that other back users have to be excluded... So the only explanation is that it is an arrogant move from P1 that is deliberate as to blackmail customers to also invest on an IQ (or Credo) back... It's the same that HB did a few years ago and I believe that the market's reaction will be the same as it was with HB...

I won't be surprised if they'll introduce a new software in the next years as to "free" the camera after they do a marketing research on the reasons that will cause the numbers not to be achieved...

[Theodoros]

http://photorumors.com/2015/10/04/rumors-hasselblad-could-be-purchased-by-phase-one/

Maybe Hasselblad users would get their wish afterall...

IMO, it will be Leica that will buy Hasselblad... That is unless if they'll decide to resurrect the Contax instead..., whatever will suit Leica best (and will be more cost effective) will come true... P1 has enough trouble of their own to solve. If Leica will decide different, then... you never know!

[synn]

It is rather that serving to the max the customers that will use an IQ back, doesn't mean that other back users have to be excluded

No really, I am trying to understand your point here. Why should Phase One spend R&D efforts to support legacy DB platforms whose users have not in the past bought any Phamiya bodies or lenses and have shown no concrete interest in doing so in the future as well? (This does not include P+ and Aptus II owners, who I have addressed in the previous post).

Your post has a lot of "What if" conditions attached to it. One could ask the same about every other manufacturer as well. What if leica had made a modular system that can take any back? Would a large number of P1, Leaf and Hasselblad back owners change their bodies to Leica? Leica probably asked this question themselves when they starrted work on their paltform, saw that the Return On Investment was not there and dropped the plans. Same situation here, if I am guessing.

As a legacy back owner, you can get 95% of the functionality of the XF with Contax or HxX bodies and associated lenses. The only added functionalities you would be able to enjoy from the body are with current gen P1 (And Leaf in the future) backs anyway. So what exactly are you complaining about?


----

To put it in a simpler way, if you are the owner of a legacy Imacon/ Hasselblad or Sinar back and are already using a Contax or Hasselblad HxX body and lenses, there is very little you will gain by moving to the XF and Phamiya lenses at a considerable expense. While this is a theortetical possibility, it has very little practical relevance to an actual user.

[synn]

I never understood photographer's that were more camera brand centric, than buyer centric.

Everything that I have written in the previous posts were from a buyer's perspective. Not sure what you are aiming at.

Personally, I don't believe Phase could not have included their P+ and Credo users right at the get go of their new camera.

Exclusion of P+ users is a real problem, which I have mentioned multiple times.
Credo support is definitely coming, which has also mentioned multiple times. Every time P1 has released somethign after they took over Leaf, the Leaf version was released a few months after the P1 version. Why should this be any different? As an Actual Leaf user, I have no problem in waiting, as long as it is here.

After all they worked backwards compatible with their backs on Contax and Hasselblad because a large part of their buyers didn't want to go to the df series mamiya.

...and they still do, except for Contax, which is a system that has been dead for longer than most celebrities remain married for these days.

1.  Contax user walks in wanting a new back and the Phase dealer says, sorry we don't support that any more  . . . but our new camera is a modern version of the Contax for just $8,000 more.

If the Contax user is an IQ1 or IQ2 user, they gain practically nothing by upgrading to the IQ3 that is not available in their mount.
If the contax user has a P+ back AND wants to upgrade to a newer back, they can upgrade to IQ1, IQ2 or Credo, which are all available in their mounts and are much more cost effective.

2. P+ owner walks in wanting the new Phase cameras and the dealer says, sorry we don't support that any more . . . but our new camera works great with our new backs for just $22,000 more.

Yep, this one is a real problem. They did have upgrade deals going on in the first few months though for these customers. I believe some here took up on those offers too.Not THE solution P+ owners wanted, but slightly better than throwing them under the bus.

Lecia took the opposite tactic and allowed their whole series of S cameras to work with H series and contax lenses, with FULL functionality and it was Leica that got my check.

As a buyer, that was an important feature you wanted and Leica gave it to you, so good for you.
As a buyer, I wanted removable backs, 4:3 sensors, affordable, good legacy lenses and nothing smaller than 44x33. Leica gave me none of those, so they didn't get my check. So for my requirements, Mamiyaleaf is a much more customer friendly company than Leica.

But maybe it's just me being selfish, because I relate more to the camera user, not the maker.

Me too, which is why I am in the camera using business, not the camera selling one.

[eronald]

For every dollar an artist spends on equipment, that's one less dollar they can spend on investment in front of the lens.

IMO

BC

Ne'er a truer word was said in jest.

On the other hand many photographers self-describe as crafstmen, commercial service providers or amateurs and not "artists". Did Picasso use retouchers?

Edmund

[Theodoros]

I never understood photographer's that were more camera brand centric, than buyer centric.

For every dollar an artist spends on equipment, that's one less dollar they can spend on investment in front of the lens.

Personally, I don't believe Phase could not have included their P+ and Credo users right at the get go of their new camera.

After all they worked backwards compatible with their backs on Contax and Hasselblad because a large part of their buyers didn't want to go to the df series mamiya.

Now that they've come out with a modern version of a Contax, they've locked out contax with their new digital back and many of heir own legacy back owners, with the plan to move them to newer, more expensive backs.

To me that strategy isn't a technical challenge, it's a sales tactic.

1.  Contax user walks in wanting a new back and the Phase dealer says, sorry we don't support that any more  . . . but our new camera is a modern version of the Contax for just $8,000 more.

2. P+ owner walks in wanting the new Phase cameras and the dealer says, sorry we don't support that any more . . . but our new camera works great with our new backs for just $22,000 more.

If phase wants to lock out Hasselblad backs, so be it, that is their active competition, (though who would put a hasselbad back on a phase camera?).

Lecia took the opposite tactic and allowed their whole series of S cameras to work with H series and contax lenses, with FULL functionality and it was Leica that got my check and not because I'm in love with Leica or feel anyone should go that direction.  It just worked for me.

But maybe it's just me being selfish, because I relate more to the camera user, not the maker.

IMO

BC

It's funny how some people become "company funs"... It's really annoying too... It is supposed that photographers care about photography first... not for business arogance! Yet, some think of it as funs of a football team 

[eronald]

It's funny how some people become "company funs"... It's really annoying too... It is supposed that photographers care about photography first... not for business arogance! Yet, some think of it as funs of a football team 

Problems start when people become fans of a politician rather than a camera brand ... especially if this politician likes war.
I have my favourite colour pencil these days, it draws better than your colour pencil 

Edmund