A7RII vs a 20-40mPixel medium format

[Phil Indeblanc]

Has anyone done such a test yet?  I know the uncompressed RAW is coming soon for the Sony, but I thought someone would have already done this comparison. Shocking if no one has.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have done some comparisons and the results are mixed. High resolution is hard to achieve and mistakes easily made.

The first comparison I made was with Canon 24/3.5 TSE vs Distagon 40 on P45+: Canon + A7rII wins

The second was Sony 90/2.8G agains Macro Planar 120/4 on a test chart: Planar + P45+ wins

The third test was field shot comparing the Sony 90/2.8G agains the Zeiss 100/3.5CF  that is known to be one of the sharpest lenses for the blad. The Planar 100/3.5 + P45+ wins.

I may publish images in a few days.

Best regards
Erik

Has anyone done such a test yet?  I know the uncompressed RAW is coming soon for the Sony, but I thought someone would have already done this comparison. Shocking if no one has.

[Phil Indeblanc]

I should have guessed it would be you :-)

I've been gone for a few months, and now back. 

I'm just about to rent the darn A7R2 setup for 4-5 days.
I think $220 to try before I buy is totally worth it. Samy's wants $480 for the same setup/body and adapter to rent. All online rentals were at least half of Samy's.

Not many here do lux/jewelry product shooting, which I do, and its one of the critical subjects that need to hold all detail. I use the 22mpixel P25 now, so it would be a nice chunk larger file and detail. So would the 5DsR, and maybe a LeafAptus75(33mp) P40, or 45, all these in around the same range of price, maybe $1K-1.5K more($3000-5500). Considering that I don't change gear every 2 years, its not a big difference/I still use my 5Dm2!.

I was thinking about it when the first A7R came out, and then when Canon did the 5DsR, I also thought about it. I also use the 5Dm2 now with a good set of lenses(70-200L IS, 24-70L, 50/1.4, 100Macro, 180LMacro, Leica 100r, 60r)

The thing is, the P25 I use produces great files and I'm happy with it. 5Dm2 cannot come close. (My old Kodak ProSLR, 14mpixel(no AA filter, ccd) was much closer to the mf "look of 3D" we talk about, but it was horrible with controlling lights and color.)

Pros using A7r2 or 5DsR...vs a MF dB
1. I can always gain from more resolution,
2. My back screen is out, so its like my H25, and even when it is working, its not very useful.
3. Faster shooting and transfer would help a lot.
4. Portability would allow me to give it multiple purpose

Cons using a A7R2 or 5DsR...vs a MF dB
1. I don't know how large the subject will look on my Sinar. It was a bit odd with my Caon using slide adapter.
2. I can't use it on the Mamiza RZ kit I have. The kit is a complete one with all lenses, and I have not used it in a long time. Since I can't make use of the P25 or H25 on it for portability use. Tethering is OK, but more of a pain.
3. I like using C1 for tether capture, not sure how these will adapt.
4. I use Shneider and Rod HD macro glass. Not sure how the smaller pixel sizes will do with them.
5. slight learning curve to adapt to Sony (not a real con)
6. Not sure how meaty the file will be for post editing.
7. Lens distortions?

[Phil Indeblanc]

Maybe you can make some samples of controlled light using highly reflective 3 dimensional polished objects? That would help a lot.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would like to help but I can really not…

What I can tell about is my experience shooting things I use to shot.

Best regards
Erik

Maybe you can make some samples of controlled light using highly reflective 3 dimensional polished objects? That would help a lot.

[Phil Indeblanc]

Well the tea cup is a good start :-)

Although I know that was for other purpose. Troger had some helpful info, as well as ctz, and others.  thanks Erik for continuing such tests.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Phil,

I subscribe to a German quarterly, called C't Photo or something like that. They have looked into that MFD vs DSLR thing a couple of times the recent years and essentially arrived at the conclusion that it is close but MFD still has an edge.

I did a "shoot out" a few days ago, because I used to shoot a subject with flowers to compare cameras, and those flowers will be gone pretty soon. In this I simply used my best lenses for each system. The Planar 100/3.5 and the Sony 90/2.8G Macro. In this case the Hasselblad held the edge.

In this case I used Lightroom's default sharpening for Landscape for both images. Raw images are here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BattleRoyal/

There are focusing differences and light varied between the shots. Focusing the "Blad" is pretty hard. Actual pixel crops of the intended area of focus below.

Sony	P45+

Best regards
Erik

Well the tea cup is a good start :-)

Although I know that was for other purpose. Troger had some helpful info, as well as ctz, and others.  thanks Erik for continuing such tests.

[Phil Indeblanc]

I'm trying to open these files on my computer with CS6 or LR6...but here they look blurry :-/

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I fixed protections on the files, the raw files are here:

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BattleRoyal/DOF_2_20150921-CF047005.iiq
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BattleRoyal/DOF_1_20150921-_DSC2069.jpg

Best regards
Erik

I'm trying to open these files on my computer with CS6 or LR6...but here they look blurry :-/

[Phil Indeblanc]

I didn't know I could put a protection on my raw files...hmmm

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The web server is running Linux and the files had mode 000 (I think). This happens now and then, so now I fixed it.

Regarding sharpness, I feel the Blad is sharper, but I also think that there may be a focus problem on the Sony. The red flowers are quite critical as they only use one of the RGB pixels essentially.

Best regards
Erik

I didn't know I could put a protection on my raw files...hmmm

[vjbelle]

The Sony file is out of focus......  Take a look at the wall behind it that shows clearly defined cracks.  The Phase file has that wall out of focus and the flowers and pot in focus. 

Victor

[AlterEgo]

The Sony file is out of focus......  Take a look at the wall behind it that shows clearly defined cracks.  The Phase file has that wall out of focus and the flowers and pot in focus. 

Victor

I am also surprised how bad the image was, that is not to say that A7R2 + FE90/2.8M shall be better than 45mp MF - but just how bad the quality of the image is... bad lens ? different performace @ macro distances vs the one in example ? operator error (sorry).... I 'd not call vaze and flowers being in focus.

[Petrus]

Looks like the Sony shot has both camera shake AND focus behind the subject...

[vjbelle]

I have both a Leaf Credo 50mp back and the Sony A7Rll..... I also have an IQ180.  I have shot the same scene with the A7Rll and Otus 55mm and the Leaf Credo 50mp/Alpa/Schneider 100mm Digitar.  The focal lengths are very comparable and the lenses are both extremely sharp.  I shoot the Schneider at f11 and the Otus at f5.6 and the differences are almost like splitting hairs.  Any differences that I can see would have to be attributed to lens characteristics and, to me, neither one is better than the other. 

Victor

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Victor,

I have noticed the focusing differences, but I have not found a significantly better file.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I obviously need to work on my focusing technique.

Best regards
Erik

I have both a Leaf Credo 50mp back and the Sony A7Rll..... I also have an IQ180.  I have shot the same scene with the A7Rll and Otus 55mm and the Leaf Credo 50mp/Alpa/Schneider 100mm Digitar.  The focal lengths are very comparable and the lenses are both extremely sharp.  I shoot the Schneider at f11 and the Otus at f5.6 and the differences are almost like splitting hairs.  Any differences that I can see would have to be attributed to lens characteristics and, to me, neither one is better than the other. 

Victor

[vjbelle]

A brief comment regarding both platforms..... I can't stress enough that there is nothing in the 35mm world that can compare with either the Schneider Digitars Or Rody's.  The differences between the two platforms all boils down to lenses.  At 100% pixels there is a visual difference between the my Otus and my Schneider Digitar.  Even at just 1 f stop apart the differences remain.  There is a clarity that exists with the digitar that is very pleasing.  In print it would be almost impossible to see but it is there.  Call it the MF look or whatever you want but when manufacturers finally start making slower lenses with very large image circles the gap will start to close. 

Victor

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I did consider camera shake, possible caused by image stabilisation, but the window behind the flowers is very sharp. So I would think that the Sony image has back focus, while I would say that the Hasselblad image has some front focus.

Just to say, I was quite careful shooting these images. I should have not published them but I was looking forward to doing this test and I got carried away.

This also shows a bit that field tests are difficult. You need to carry double equipment, light is changing and it is easy to mess up, which I obviously did. But, that is a learning experience, too. Need to be even more careful focusing. Now, if we do testing in lab or studio, we can go back and reshoot. In the field it is more problematic.

Best regards
Erik

Looks like the Sony shot has both camera shake AND focus behind the subject...

[AlterEgo]

I can't stress enough that there is nothing in the 35mm world that can compare with either the Schneider Digitars Or Rody's.

which one can actually mount on 35mm dSLM platforms, no ?

[AlterEgo]

I did consider camera shake, possible caused by image stabilisation, but the window behind the flowers is very sharp. So I would think that the Sony image has back focus, while I would say that the Hasselblad image has some front focus.

Just to say, I was quite careful shooting these images.

the pain of focus stacking sequence then and select the best ?