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Author Topic: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer  (Read 5066 times)

deanwork

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Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« on: September 12, 2015, 08:47:35 am »

I'm curious that I don't see anyone discussing the last offering from Canon in the desktop printer realm. It's been out quite awhile.

Is anyone using the Pixima Pro that has anything to share?

It is the only oem printer ink to offer an evenly spaced quad inkset with 5 total black and grey inks. Other than the additional gray it uses the same Lucia inkset as the larger IPF models.

Do they even have a decent market share for this printer? Is the reason people are all going for the 3880 the fact that the Canon will only accept up to 13x19 media? That could be a drawback for those that want to make 16x20 prints.

Other than Wilhelm's ad for it, I haven't heard one person even discussing the new bw ink characteristics. My hope was that the additional gray would be available on any new Canon large format models.  An additional gray when going through True Black and White software should be quite impressive.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/printers/desktop_printers/photo_inkjet_printers/pixma_pro_1#Features

John
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MHMG

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 10:36:22 am »

I have had the Pixma Pro 1 in my studio for a couple of months. I haven't had much of a chance to use it since I have been spending more time testing the P600 as of late. The Pro 1 has a premium quality build (like a tank) that some users with limited desktop space and limited physical stength (it's very heavy for a 13 inch printer) will probably complain about. IMHO, it's a good thing, and the Pro-1 can make some impressive color and B&W prints, but that said, the Pro 1 is a very odd duck with lots of quirks.

Canon admirably has gone out of its way to promote the printer's ability to work with third party media. And it would seem like the dream printer for this because it has no PK-MK ink switching issue like the Epson printers.  But what were Canon engineers thinking? There are some big big gotchas to the Pro-1 when using any media other than RC paper media. First, you have to choose a Fine art media setting in order to access the MK ink, but those FA media settings enforce a 30mm minimum margin on both the leading and trailing edges of the print. While this wide margin is grudgingly perhaps OK for the largest size prints, it's absurd for letter size paper. But wait, there's more!   I tried to do an end run around the Fine art paper margin limit by creating a custom page size. No go, the FA media settings are also hard wired to three standard page sizes only, ie., letter-size, tabloid, and Super B. When you try to make a custom page size, you aren't allowed to select the FA media settings, so you can't invoke the MK ink with any custom page size. The only other MK ink setting that doesn't enforce the 30 mm margin is the "plain paper" setting, but that color table is totally whacked for any media other than plain paper, so one could not use it to build a custom color profile and skirt around the FA settings" margin limits.  I may yet find a work around to this wide margin/MK ink issue, but I haven't yet.

Second, the Pro-1 is very prone to head strikes especially at the trailing edge of the sheet... the media must be super flat, flat, flat. There is an obscure setting in the menu that will widen the platten gap a lttle  (Canon doesn't use that terminology, so at the moment it escapes me what that menu setting is called), and choosing this increased platten gap option helps, but even with that setting permanently invoked, I find myself always laying each sheet down on the table and if any edge curls up more than a millimeter or so, I take time to curl the sheet backwards enough so that it is now dead flat on the table before I feed it into the Pro-1. RC media tend to have slight backwards curl and are of course thinner than most fine art papers, so they tend to work fine with no fussing about de-curling each sheet first, but otherwise, one needs to pay very close attention to media flatness when using the Pro-1.

Third, The gloss optimizer menu settings are very funky, but I was able to tame the beast when it comes to using the Gloss optimizing the way I want it. There are four basic setting choices, 1) no GO, 2) GO overall (but for GO overall remember to use borderless paper setting as well if you truly want edge to edge GO covering both image and print margins), or 3) GO on image only, and 4) a quirky but useful custom feature which creates a user defined mask to place the Go only where you want it on the paper.  The GO on image only turned out to be disappointing, because Canon views it as an economy mode, so it feathers out the GO completely when it reaches any full white areas in the image. This reduces the bronzing, but leaves the gloss differential issue sadly in the place the viewer sees it most, ie. highlights feathering to paper white areas in the image. The work around is to use the GO overall mode, or the custom masking feature. Once you figure this custom GO mode out, you can then place the GO completely over the image area only, or the full sheet, or anywhere else you do and don't want it. But the Custom mode is a bit tricky and slow to implement since it's a two step process in order to make the necessary image mask the printer driver needs in order to figure out where you want the Go placed on the paper. Phew, that was mouthful :)

All in all, I can only recommend the Pro-1 printer to folks who print entirely on RC or glossy/luster type fine art media like Canson Baryta Photographique or Hahemuhle Photo Rag Baryta where the Pro-1's gloss optimizer and four level gray channels are both very welcome. However, If you are thinking about this printer as a nice way to move seamlessly between matt and glossy media without the tyranny of Epson ink PK-MK switching you are likely going to be in for a huge disappointment with its bizarre margin limits for fine art matt papers and the extra finicky paper flatness/head strike sensitivity.

My 2 cents :)
best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 10:50:55 am by MHMG »
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deanwork

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 12:09:35 pm »

Well damn Mark that was a great review, and the kind of review that I never find online anymore. Wilhelm's "review" was just an ad.

It sounds very clunky to me.  It is amazing how HP and Canon have yet to make a dent in the table top market and that is where all the money is being made by Epson with these little ink carts.

It kind of reminds me of Sony, how they come up with this great hardware but manage to muck it with the software and drivers. Maybe they can come up with some firmware updates to solve some of that, but the paper feed issue sounds dreadful. The other big issue for me would be that it won't print 16x20s in a printer that big and heavy.

My main curiosity was the added gray ink channel. No matter where I see this printer discussed no one is suggesting that this is much of an improvement, and that surprises me. The one thing I always wanted in my HP and Canon printers was one more gray because I know from third party ink experiences that a quad set has the potential for being much smoother than a tritone using gray inks only. Of course how you linearize that combination and what software you are using plays a big role.

john
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MHMG

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 12:59:17 pm »

Well damn Mark that was a great review, and the kind of review that I never find online anymore. Wilhelm's "review" was just an ad.

My main curiosity was the added gray ink channel. No matter where I see this printer discussed no one is suggesting that this is much of an improvement, and that surprises me. The one thing I always wanted in my HP and Canon printers was one more gray because I know from third party ink experiences that a quad set has the potential for being much smoother than a tritone using gray inks only. Of course how you linearize that combination and what software you are using plays a big role.

john

John, I have only made a few B&W prints, and I print mainly color not B&W, so I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. While I have very good color vision and consider myself a perfectionist in most respects, I've always been in awe of great B&W printmakers and how obsessed they are with tonal smoothness and hue control throughout the tone scale. Because I mainly do color for my own personal work, I'm not sure I'm in their league, and I think you need someone who is to comment precisely on the total image quality of the B&W prints from the Pro-1.  All that said, I suspect that all the Pixma Pro printers (the 1, 10, and dye based Pro-100) treat B&W like a full color print mode only with heavy heavy GCR in the color LUTs to force the printer to use primarily the gray channels as much as possible when printing neutral and near neutral colors. There is no equivalent in the Canon Driver to Epson's Advanced B&W, AFAIK. The B&W image is being treated essentially like a color RGB file, so while the dot structure (or lack thereof as it were) is impressive, it's the quality of the associated ICC profile that may influence the smoothness of the hue and low chroma linearity throughout the B&W tone scale with the Canon Pro-1 driver.  I built a custom ICC profile paying extra attention in the second iteration of patches with respect to neutral grays using i!profiler, and then after sending the printer a fully desaturated RGB image file the resultant Pro-1 B&W neutral gray print I made on some Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl was truly excellent, IMHO. Again, what I call excellent neutrality across the tone scale, I worry that some of you expert B&W masters may still have issues with, but there were definitely no obvious color cross overs, and the grain and tonal smoothness is lovely, IMHO. I have to use a magnifying loop to see any dot structure and even then it's very subtle, maybe not in Jon Cone's K7 piezography league, but really damn good. And because HN ph rag pearl is a luster type paper calling for PK ink, no annoying 30mm page margins.  You can go borderless if you want with that combo. The AaI&A newer style test reports for B&W systems actually plot the B&W hue and tone scale ramps, so when I get a chance, I will do some more B&W and use the AaI&A test software to quantify the linearity.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 01:01:45 pm by MHMG »
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Sbarroso

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2015, 05:58:52 pm »

Hi John,

I have a Pixma Pro 1 since January. I'm a happy user and it fits my purposes as simple aficionado.
Regarding the matte papers, indeed the 30 mm borders is annoying for formats other than A3+. For square prints it's ok in A4. Forget for matte 10x15 cm (4x5') cards of Hahnemühle Photo Rag. In general I can live with that.
Continuing with matte, I've seen in internet some tests showing that with an Epson printer you can achieve a deeper black than with the Pixma Pro 1. I cannot make the comparison myself, but indeed, pictures with lot of very dark areas do not call for this printer. I only use it for those pictures where dark areas are not important, mainly low contrast ones. But I preferentially use glossy/luster papers, so still not a big problems. And, in any event, I still get many great prints on matte papers.

Regarding black and white: The printer will make use of those inks mainly when you use the black and white mode. In color mode, it will use much more the color inks, also for gray/desaturated areas. Printing a BW picture in color mode, however, still provides a quite neutral tone... much better than my Canon MG6250 (dye inks). Also: BW mode does still use a bit of the color inks: you need a microscope to see the dots, but they are there (check internet to see the prove).

I don't have a spectrometer to get my own profiles, so I use the canned ones provided by the paper manufacturers (mainly hahnemühle). They work well for me. In BW printing mode you cannot use a profile. I guess you can do a work around applying profiles changes with photoshop (if you make your own profile). In my case, I see that the darkest areas are not perfect. But for most of the cases the prints are simply excellent, at least for me (and I printed in the wet darkroom time ago). I've only one print were I was not satisfy, but it's a very difficult one due to very subtle changes of blacks, covering almost all the picture. The problem may by also because of the screen (for that I have spyder 4 colorimeter) and the working/viewing conditions. As I said, only one picture, a very difficult one.

Two points more about BW. In this mode you can choose the tonality of your print in the settings, changing the X and Y parameters (0,0 for neutral). I do it some times to get a slightly warmer print. A cool print is also possible, but It's not my preferred tonality. In principle that should be better than change the tone with your software and print in color.
The Pixma Pro can print in 16 bits, but not directly from LR or Photoshop, even if you select the XPS driver. The problem is on the Adobe side. In that case, I export the picture to a 16 bits TIFF file and print from Canon Print Studio Pro. I did observe the difference in one or two cases of BW pictures with a sky with a very smooth grading. In that cases, I always avoid the LR printing panel (otherwise the most convenient way for me to print). You can also call the Canon plug-in directly from LR, it works then with 16 bits.

Ah, and the head strickes. I usually don't have that problem with A4/A3+ papers. May be one or two cases. With the photo cards 10x15 (4x5') I do have that problem. They are more curved, and it happens also with my Canon MG6250.

About the CO: I did not like the option of full image, that leaves still a small border uncovered, with a different glossy than the rest of the white frame. I print in "automatic", also for economical reasons: it's the fastest cartridge to get empty, and the most expensive one. I can live with the small gloss differential in the whitest areas...actually you only see it from angles that are not appropriate to look pictures!

I can recommend the printer, especially for BW printing, unless you are big fan of matte papers. And I don't feel like changing inks.

Santiago

deanwork

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 12:59:44 am »

My experience with the standard Canon driver for the 8300 was dreadful from day one. Epson's ABW is sad, but the Canon excuse for a bw mode is really sad. I can make expert icc profiles also that don't help it. In my personal experience it is the exact opposite of the HP Z capability that gives you excellent results out of the box even without really trying.

However, ...Canon was smart enough with the large format series to allow Bowhaus to design and sell an excellent solution with True Black and White software at a very affordable price. With it you can do anything, and just plug in your Eye One Pro spectro and linearize right there, then finesse the print color to absolutely anything you need and save the presets for all the different papers. With no color inks at all used it is perfect to me on both gloss and matte media. The straight Canon driver solution uses color inks, and at least with my machine there are all kind of strange color crossover casts happening, even when you send the file over there as grayscale, I'm talking about a really good icc profile with well over 2000 patches and extended grays when attempting that with rgb. Maybe they changed the software with the 8400, don't know.

TBW is the ONLY way to go for me with my Canon and I love it, and I love them for producing it, and like QTR for the Epson platform, a godsend. I'm not sure I would even want to own this printer without it.

I find my prints on gloss fiber with this setup just excellent and it makes me wonder what one more lighter gray could do with this software. It wouldn't match the dimensionality of Cone's K7,nothing does, but it would improve things.

I prefer the HP for matt prints because the Vivera MK dmax is so much better, it blows everything else out there away, but the Canon with TBW can match every other aspect of the HP monochrome just fine with all media. And with both the HP and the Canon you are talking about really high levels of print permanence and no color dots to compromise that. I've seen a lot of Epson bw prints the last few years that use ABW and QTR ( which is much better) but I've never really seen one that I liked. They just don't have the clean rendition that Canon and HP mono prints have. There is always something blue cyanish about them that I just can't stand when trying to achieve some kind of neutral.

john
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AlienAl

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixma Pro-1 Desktop Printer
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 01:00:21 pm »

Greetings, all. About the Pro-1's ink consumption: on a dpreview forum (regarding the question of how frequently you should use the printer, e.g., every week or so, if possible, etc.) I read the suggestion that, if it's not convenient to print any prints, you can instead simply do a nozzle check every week or so.  The nozzle check (it was said) uses practically no ink, and so avoids the ink loss of the automatic cleaning that longer intervals of non-use will incur.

However, I don't think this can be true. I've had my Pro-1 only for about four months, and after an initial use (making nine A3Plus prints in B&W mode), I discovered there was a problem with the paper. (Hahnemuehle William Turner 310, which shed flakes from the surface - a kind of print dandruff.) Some time passed before I got to the bottom of this, got the paper replaced, and finally printed again, eight A3Plus prints. Meanwhile, and afterwards, I'd been doing my grab shots of the Supply Levels. I'd just show you a few, but I am new here and haven't figured out how to upload a jpeg. 

Suffice it to say that my ink levels seemed to be normal for my use as long as I just printed.  But after some weeks of not printing, and instead doing a nozzle check every week or ten days, the levels seem to have gone down almost as if I'd been printing.  I haven't yet learned to recognize the various noises the machine makes, but it seems it must have been doing a bit of thorough cleaning anyway, and not just doing its ink-tank-agitation-rumba as I had supposed.

Bottom line: after seventeen A3Plus B&W prints (using grayscale printing exclusively), I'm running on empty on all twelve tanks:  zero dark gray, zero matte black, and "10%" on all the rest, colors included.  (I should note that my prints are heavy on the shadows, and must use several times what a higher-key subject matter consumes.  My consumption seems on a par with what I got from the older Pixma Pro9500.)

Where can I find the straight dope on ink consumption, and if there's a non-wasteful way of exercising the printer to avoid eventual clogs?  And why can't Canon give us a more precise indication of remaining ink?
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speedyk

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Re: Anyone using Canon Pixima Pro Desktop Printer
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 10:30:27 pm »

I've been researching these printers. An Amazon review suggest that it uses ink whenever it loses power and then the power is restored. That reviewer suggested a UPS.

Thank you previous posters for your insights, not all of which I understand yet.
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