Dry Mount with Heat - will it damage print?

[Richard.Wills]

Sorry to hear about the problems - I refuse to mount other peoples baryta prints - edge chipping can be a real nightmare with these papers, particularly if the images are full bleed. In fact, we very rarely take on mounting work for images which we have not printed, as if there is a problem, we re-run the work internally, there by avoiding the whole cost battle if things go wrong.

When we do mount baryta prints full bleed, we'll oversize the print by a couple of mm, mounting to substrate at final size, then trim with the print face down (on tissue, on a cutting matt) using a fresh scalpel blade for each edge! Trying to cut baryta and pvc at the same time is pretty much guaranteed to cause chipping and flaking.

One of the most robust, that we have found, of the baryta papers is the Innova Fiba Print Ultrasmooth Gloss (IFA49). Though this is still damned fragile...

[ThirstyDursty]

Sorry to hear about the problems - I refuse to mount other peoples baryta prints - edge chipping can be a real nightmare with these papers, particularly if the images are full bleed. In fact, we very rarely take on mounting work for images which we have not printed, as if there is a problem, we re-run the work internally, there by avoiding the whole cost battle if things go wrong.

When we do mount baryta prints full bleed, we'll oversize the print by a couple of mm, mounting to substrate at final size, then trim with the print face down (on tissue, on a cutting matt) using a fresh scalpel blade for each edge! Trying to cut baryta and pvc at the same time is pretty much guaranteed to cause chipping and flaking.

One of the most robust, that we have found, of the baryta papers is the Innova Fiba Print Ultrasmooth Gloss (IFA49). Though this is still damned fragile...

It is still fair of me to ask for my money back? Correct? The face abrasions just seem wrong.

I offered them a sample and they refused, say they did heaps of this stuff and there shouldn't be an issue.

I won't seek print costs...even though I feel out of pocket on this. Over ~6 meters of 40cm tall panos

[elliot_n]

When we do mount baryta prints full bleed, we'll oversize the print by a couple of mm, mounting to substrate at final size, then trim with the print face down (on tissue, on a cutting matt) using a fresh scalpel blade for each edge! Trying to cut baryta and pvc at the same time is pretty much guaranteed to cause chipping and flaking.

Thanks for this! Earlier I started a thread about mounting baryta prints to MDF, and this sounds like excellent advice. (And apologies - I don't want to derail this thread).

[ThirstyDursty]

Thanks for this! Earlier I started a thread about mounting baryta prints to MDF, and this sounds like excellent advice. (And apologies - I don't want to derail this thread).

I saw your thread and was just about to point you here.

This has turned slightly nightmarish for me

I'm re-printing over 6 meters of panoramas and having to sort another option as I don't have time or money anymore to experiment/in this case waste.

I'm going to go with thin metal frames (easy, look decent and reasonable)...going to plexi and mat. Not how I wanted it to go...I'll try and figure out the gatorboard and frame in a canvas float frame later. On a small print with no time constraints or using as sales pieces in show .

[elliot_n]

I hope you got a refund.

[Paul2660]

The  floater frame for the gator mount may not have been the best solution, as you will see the rough edge, unless you try to flush mount inside the floater, and that's not the look most want from a floater, you want to have a bit of gap.  Floaters are mainly used for canvas, thus you can see the wrap around the edges, at least the floaters I have worked with.

Part of the problem you may have had, or the framer is that they were cutting the print on top of gator.  I have used Platine this way but not had any issues with edge flaking.  But gator is not very forgiving.  Foam core will probably allow for a less damaging cut.  But again with a floater frame, you will see the edge. 

With the prints you have mounted, you could consider a frame either wood or metal (metal is not always the cheapest), but wood frames needs to be joined and then you need a tool to mount the print into the frame like the Fletcher gun.  Metal, you can assemble with no extra tools.  All frames, should have enough edge to cover the rough edge of your cuts, not sure how big or long the scratches are from the edge but they might stick out from the edge.

You could also consider printing on an RC paper, since you were not considering glass (if a float frame was being used).  The RC papers are a bit more durable and scratch resistant.  Epson, Ilford both have several good ones.  The surface will be more durable than the Baryta. 

Just some thoughts for the future.

Paul

[ThirstyDursty]

The  floater frame for the gator mount may not have been the best solution, as you will see the rough edge, unless you try to flush mount inside the floater, and that's not the look most want from a floater, you want to have a bit of gap.  Floaters are mainly used for canvas, thus you can see the wrap around the edges, at least the floaters I have worked with.

Part of the problem you may have had, or the framer is that they were cutting the print on top of gator.  I have used Platine this way but not had any issues with edge flaking.  But gator is not very forgiving.  Foam core will probably allow for a less damaging cut.  But again with a floater frame, you will see the edge. 

With the prints you have mounted, you could consider a frame either wood or metal (metal is not always the cheapest), but wood frames needs to be joined and then you need a tool to mount the print into the frame like the Fletcher gun.  Metal, you can assemble with no extra tools.  All frames, should have enough edge to cover the rough edge of your cuts, not sure how big or long the scratches are from the edge but they might stick out from the edge.

You could also consider printing on an RC paper, since you were not considering glass (if a float frame was being used).  The RC papers are a bit more durable and scratch resistant.  Epson, Ilford both have several good ones.  The surface will be more durable than the Baryta. 

Just some thoughts for the future.

Paul

Yes...a few good lessons learned. Which is a positive.

I've seen this done...not sure it was gator as a substrate. Had no idea the surface would be an issue, now I know.

I could live with the chipping, but they should have told me they had issues on pick-up...not leave me to discover it at home. Also once I saw how the edge would turn out...I knew even with a good cut the float wouldn't work and resigned to a thin metal frame...

But then I saw all the faint scratching that becomes evident in side lighting.

The real piss offs are
1) not telling me
2) not critically evaluating their work
3) not accepting the small sample print as a test...and by doing this the validated my concerns on the large production pieces in a bulk process...rather then small test and evaluate. They assured me they do heaps and there would be no issue. I brought sample pieces when I dropped it off and they dismissed the idea as unnecessary.

[ThirstyDursty]

Something like this is what I wanted.

http://www.posterjack.ca/gallerybox.php

I just wanted a black void of ~5mm and print flush or 1-2mm sunk

I've seen them (not from that company).

They where paper prints and edge was black.

Next time, when I figure out how to achieve

For now
Reprint-thin metal frame and plexi. Bummer

[GrahamBy]

You could also consider printing on an RC paper, since you were not considering glass (if a float frame was being used).  The RC papers are a bit more durable and scratch resistant.  Epson, Ilford both have several good ones.  The surface will be more durable than the Baryta. 

Paul, what about mounting RC? I seem to have read every opinion and its opposite on what will or won't stick, or cause puckering, or wrinkling...

[Paul2660]

Paul, what about mounting RC? I seem to have read every opinion and its opposite on what will or won't stick, or cause puckering, or wrinkling...

RC in my experience will work fine with a dry mount with heat, like from a press.  I would use Bingfang rag mount, as I like the extra thickness of the material.  RC will often pull back from a spray mount over time if you mount by hand, but if you combine RC, spray mount and then a press, odds are it will hold. 

It's hard to beat a press, just the best way to mount a print. 

Paul

[deanwork]

You just need to be very careful with the amount of heat of the press. RC papers can easily warp and melt under heat. I use my dry mount press for flattening prints all the time and I'm very reluctant to put rc material in it if I can help it. With fiber gloss and matt media dry mounting is a breeze and probably the most permanent adhesion you can find.

john