Leica S 007 for video? Or just use Nikon D800? Or not do video at all?

[william]

Quick question:

I currently have a Leica S 006 and a Nikon D800 and a bunch of lenses for both.  I am on the fence about upgrading to the S 007.  I've never used the video function on the D800 because I've not yet had any call for it.

In booking an upcoming shoot, I was asked whether I could do some video as well as my usual stills.  The video part will be pretty informal and straightforward from what I can gather (famous last words, I know).  I'm not really looking for specific feedback on the video quality of the 007 -- it's too early for that, since it's not yet out in the wild -- rather, I am looking for general feedback on the following:

(1) Any good links to basic "videography for photographers" tutorials, so that I can see what I might be getting into?

(2) Candidly, how steep could I expect the learning curve to be?

(3) IF I decide to upgrade to the 007 and if I decide to do the video on the 007: What additional gear (and, importantly, at what cost) does one need to do a basic serviceable video of say 10 minutes length (after editing)?  My lights are profoto B1s and natural light: Would I be looking at getting an entirely new set of lighting to be able to get decent video quality?  A new video-specific tripod or head? (I've got an old but sturdy Manfrotto with a decent ballhead, but I do wonder about smoothness of panning for video).  A "follow-focus" accessory for the lenses? (Quote marks to indicate that I don't really know what that is...) I assume some sort of microphone in addition to whatever's built in on the 007 (or the D800, for that matter).

Basically, at this point, I'm just trying to figure out whether, as a photographer with 20 years of experience in stills but no experience at all in video, and with the gear I have or the S 007, whether this is something I could legitimately pull off or whether all parties will be better off if I just decline the video portion.  And to be clear, I'm at no risk of losing the shoot entirely if I don't do the video portion.  The main gig is the stills: they just want to know if I could do a bit of video.

All input appreciated.  Thanks!

[eronald]

Quick question:

I currently have a Leica S 006 and a Nikon D800 and a bunch of lenses for both.  I am on the fence about upgrading to the S 007.  I've never used the video function on the D800 because I've not yet had any call for it.

In booking an upcoming shoot, I was asked whether I could do some video as well as my usual stills.  The video part will be pretty informal and straightforward from what I can gather (famous last words, I know).  I'm not really looking for specific feedback on the video quality of the 007 -- it's too early for that, since it's not yet out in the wild -- rather, I am looking for general feedback on the following:

(1) Any good links to basic "videography for photographers" tutorials, so that I can see what I might be getting into?

(2) Candidly, how steep could I expect the learning curve to be?

(3) IF I decide to upgrade to the 007 and if I decide to do the video on the 007: What additional gear (and, importantly, at what cost) does one need to do a basic serviceable video of say 10 minutes length (after editing)?  My lights are profoto B1s and natural light: Would I be looking at getting an entirely new set of lighting to be able to get decent video quality?  A new video-specific tripod or head? (I've got an old but sturdy Manfrotto with a decent ballhead, but I do wonder about smoothness of panning for video).  A "follow-focus" accessory for the lenses? (Quote marks to indicate that I don't really know what that is...) I assume some sort of microphone in addition to whatever's built in on the 007 (or the D800, for that matter).

Basically, at this point, I'm just trying to figure out whether, as a photographer with 20 years of experience in stills but no experience at all in video, and with the gear I have or the S 007, whether this is something I could legitimately pull off or whether all parties will be better off if I just decline the video portion.  And to be clear, I'm at no risk of losing the shoot entirely if I don't do the video portion.  The main gig is the stills: they just want to know if I could do a bit of video.

All input appreciated.  Thanks!

Video is a discipline in itself, a separate field from still photography; photo skill helps, but it's just part. Think of it like Physics and Maths, or French and Spanish: related but not identical visual languages.

I would decline the video gig, or -better- hire an assistant with video experience to set it all up and do it so you can learn. Ask him what tools he wants. Just about everything these days, from an iPhone through a GoPro can be employed for video - but the rule is the larger the sensor, the harder it gets and the more professional you need to be to make it work.

As for tools, video lighting is not the same as strobes,  and also video needs to be postprocessed, graded, cut and encoded  which is an art in itself with special software for each task. Video focus and depth of field calculations even on still cameras that do video are not the same as with stills, since changing focus on the fly is hard, and many cameras change their sensor size when used in still mode. Last not least there is sound which is a world to itself.

Edmund

[telyt]

Keep in mind the S (007) video mode doesn't use the entire sensor, the crop factor is about 1.5

[synn]

I have used the D800 for informal video purposes and it works decently for that. But for any serious use, I would rent a GH4 or something, which is a lot better for such use.

It has a mic in, so you can use a shotgun mic mounted on the hotshoe.

There are lots of follow focus accessories available these days, at many price points. Some come with a toothed gear you can mount around the focus ring on your existing lenses. you can see some examples here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Focusing-Gear/ci/12016/N/4028759307?origSearch=follow%20focus

But keep in mind, fine manual focus control with AF lenses is a pain in the ass. The focus rings are nowhere as fine as on a manual lens. You can also look into cine lenses from Samyang a a low cost alternative.

I would stay clear of a ballhead for video. a good pan/ tilt head is more suitable for this.

EDIT: The Sony RX 10 will give you a whole lot of video camera for not a lot of money. Check some reviews on Youtube.

[Joe Towner]

I understand the interest in being everything to everyone, but compare the cost of grabbing an assistant who shoots a lot of video with frustration in front of a client and you'll spend the money.  If you are looking to buy something, check out the Panasonic FZ1000, it's not as much as the RX10 II but uses the same chip as the GH4 with a builtin lens that isn't bad. 

[Ken R]

Quick question:

I currently have a Leica S 006 and a Nikon D800 and a bunch of lenses for both.  I am on the fence about upgrading to the S 007.  I've never used the video function on the D800 because I've not yet had any call for it.

In booking an upcoming shoot, I was asked whether I could do some video as well as my usual stills.  The video part will be pretty informal and straightforward from what I can gather (famous last words, I know).  I'm not really looking for specific feedback on the video quality of the 007 -- it's too early for that, since it's not yet out in the wild -- rather, I am looking for general feedback on the following:

(1) Any good links to basic "videography for photographers" tutorials, so that I can see what I might be getting into?

(2) Candidly, how steep could I expect the learning curve to be?

(3) IF I decide to upgrade to the 007 and if I decide to do the video on the 007: What additional gear (and, importantly, at what cost) does one need to do a basic serviceable video of say 10 minutes length (after editing)?  My lights are profoto B1s and natural light: Would I be looking at getting an entirely new set of lighting to be able to get decent video quality?  A new video-specific tripod or head? (I've got an old but sturdy Manfrotto with a decent ballhead, but I do wonder about smoothness of panning for video).  A "follow-focus" accessory for the lenses? (Quote marks to indicate that I don't really know what that is...) I assume some sort of microphone in addition to whatever's built in on the 007 (or the D800, for that matter).

Basically, at this point, I'm just trying to figure out whether, as a photographer with 20 years of experience in stills but no experience at all in video, and with the gear I have or the S 007, whether this is something I could legitimately pull off or whether all parties will be better off if I just decline the video portion.  And to be clear, I'm at no risk of losing the shoot entirely if I don't do the video portion.  The main gig is the stills: they just want to know if I could do a bit of video.

All input appreciated.  Thanks!

Hi. I usually steer away from committing to photography AND video. Generally it is best to concentrate on the photography part and hire someone else to do the video. Specially if the main thing is the photography. It is hard enough as it is to do the best photography possible with today's time and $ constraints. Yes, both can be done but since photography has the the priority I would stick with that.

Anyway, the problem with video is not only the capturing video part but also the audio, the storing and post-processing part.

Video has specific requirements like continuous lighting, camera support options for panning / camera movements (jib, slider etc) and sound has its own issues as well.

I would certainly not upgrade a 006 to the 007 for the video part. The 007 is a huge upgrade though since it has much higher iso capabilities, live view among other things.

[landscapephoto]

My lights are profoto B1s and natural light: Would I be looking at getting an entirely new set of lighting to be able to get decent video quality?

Yes, you would need continuous lights.

A new video-specific tripod or head? (I've got an old but sturdy Manfrotto with a decent ballhead, but I do wonder about smoothness of panning for video). 

Ball heads are completely unsuited for video work. Video heads have a cup to adjust the horizontal and smooth pans and tilts.

A "follow-focus" accessory for the lenses? (Quote marks to indicate that I don't really know what that is...)

A "follow-focus" needs an assistant to be operated. While working alone, it is challenging to use anything else than AF and that, usually, only really works on a video camera.

I assume some sort of microphone in addition to whatever's built in on the 007 (or the D800, for that matter).

Yes, and the microphones needs to be placed near the sound sources which means either a dedicated recorder, radios or cables everywhere. Possibly an assistant to hold the microphone above the models.

What you'll also need
-software and time to edit the video (grad and cut)
-software and time to edit the audio (maybe add music, etc...)

Generally speaking, it is almost impossible to do a video project alone and certainly not if you intend to take pictures at the same time. The only way to somewhat do something decent would be to buy 4-5 cheap video cams (even the basic ones are quite good nowadays), a small decent sound recorder and mics, set everything in advance and let it run alone. The work is then shifted to post production, but that still costs lots of time.

[Zerui]

I am three years into cinematography after 60 years in photography (Hasselblad, Leica, Nikon; Profoto; etc).
After playing with video on my Leica M, which produces good results under easy conditions,
I decided to buy a video camera. After researching the field, and nearly going for a Sony FS7, I decided on the simpler Canon XC10, which turned out to be the ideal 'learning curve' camera for someone like me moving from photography to videography. It is much easier to use than a still camera that can do video. Don't waste your time on them! The Canon XC1O handles like a Hasselblad, only much lighter.
Last year I bought the essential sound gear, brilliant microphones from Røde; I particularly recommend their latest stereo microphone X, which is a perfect partner for the Canon XC10.
I could go on longer.  For example about my growing library of books on videography.
You will find that post processing in video (try Blackmagic Davinci Resolve, it's very powerful and free! But requires time to learn)
You can see how I have been progressing on Vimeo.com/Goff.
I am making films for myself.  No thoughts of commercial work before I have learnt much more about this complicated craft.
Good luck with making the transition.  You will have a lot if fun.
Goff

[william]

Thanks for all the great feedback.  Will give this some more thought....

[Petrus]

I have been doing video as a sideline for about 12 years now. While photography background certainly helps in many ways (understanding most of the technology, framing, exposure etc), the big difference is continuity, movement, timing and rhythm, which all need either preplanning or just having the "touch". Also shooting video is not an instantaneous affair, but getting the shot often means you need to be consistent with your choices, you can not change your viewpoint or framing suddenly, and need to stay ahead of what is happening even more than with stills. Audio is often the big problem, getting truly good audio often requires more work and investment than getting the picture. Just plugging a shotgun microphone on the hotshot is NOT going to cut it in the long run.

At the moment I like to use a real video camera whenever I can, because it is much more flexible and ergonomic than a stills/video camera, with working auto almost everything when needed, and 20x zoom plus 2 channels of professional quality audio inputs with phantom powering for the microphones. The camera is Canon XH-A1, a fairly big one by modern standards. On the audio side I have a pair of Sennheiser radio lavalieres, pair of DPA 4060 lavalieres (cable or radio, cable is always better if it is possible to use it that way), mono & stereo short shotguns from Sanken, Rode and Pearl, Sound Devices 722 stereo recorder, Sound Devices 302 field mixer, couple of Rycote Zeppelins for outdoor use, etc etc. Plus loads of other more expensive stuff for classical recording, done as a hobby.

I try my outmost to avoid having to do both video and stills for the same project. Both suffer if I must do both. With something staged it is ok, but for reportage or news it is almost impossible.