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Author Topic: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?  (Read 12005 times)

jjwithers

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I have a retouching project for a client who shot film... fairly wide angle and needs all the shots stitched together. The shots are complex with structures and telephone lines and such.
The problem is that they are not shot very coherently with the grid-like approach to shooting. 
Bending my layers manually in Photoshop is getting me part of the way there but I'm wondering if Capture One or another software will analyze the data and stitch/morph the images together without metadata (because they are film scans).
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks!

-josh
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 09:37:31 pm »

Have you tried just running them through Photoshop's stitching tools - perhaps two at a time and building them up that way?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mlewis

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 05:19:13 am »

I have had no issues with using the panorama stitching function in PS with film scans that don't have any EXIF data.  It should be fine with other stitching software as well.  With dedicated stitching software you can usually manually specify the focal length used if you wish to override the EXIF number or if is missing.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 06:17:56 am »

I have a retouching project for a client who shot film... fairly wide angle and needs all the shots stitched together. The shots are complex with structures and telephone lines and such.
The problem is that they are not shot very coherently with the grid-like approach to shooting. 
Bending my layers manually in Photoshop is getting me part of the way there but I'm wondering if Capture One or another software will analyze the data and stitch/morph the images together without metadata (because they are film scans).

Hi Josh,

Sounds like a typical challenge that PTGUI would have relatively little difficulty with. It uses image features, not just metadata, and the data that is needed (like focal length and type of lens) can be manually entered if it's not present in the file header metadata, and then optionally gets improved further based on image features (perhaps the nominal focal length of the lens isn't exact, or the lens is decentered a bit). You can even drag the individual image tiles in their approximate position in a preview, which makes it easier to manually add control points (if the program cannot already find them automatically).

Of course, even PTGUI may run into difficulties if the images are shot sloppy, handheld, or with different focal lengths, or with different focus settings, but it does have the technical capability to solve most of those issues the best way that is technically possible while respecting normal geometrical projections and smart blending of overlapping areas. For those sloppy input jobs it may need a bit more handholding, but if it's possible, then PTGUI should be able to do it. It can also output layered and masked output for further retouching if needed.

I suggest using a dedicated stitching tool like PTGUI for a dedicated task like this. It also uses better resampling algorithms, so even for easier jobs it already produces better quality anyway. It also offers more projection methods to choose from, and has additional relative horizontal stretching/compression capabilities for extreme angles of view, and opportunities to address things like ghosting artifacts. It also handles large image files (such as scans) better, by swapping data to disk if needed instead of swamping RAM and the OS to a grinding hold.

Cheers,
Bart
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Isaac

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 01:01:13 pm »

The Quick&Easy way to find out what might be possible is to drop all the images into MS Image Composite Editor and see what happens.

(Then try to figure out which images are actually needed and only use those; then try to figure out which parts of those images are actually needed and alpha-channel mask the unneeded parts.)
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jjwithers

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 08:26:32 pm »

Thanks guys.  These are all good suggestions. 
FWIW, I tried it a few different ways in Photoshop and it made a total mess of everything. 
Microsoft is PC only. 
But I'll demo the PTGUI

One issue is that I have no idea what focal length was used.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 03:39:06 am »

One issue is that I have no idea what focal length was used.

Hi,

Try an automatic stitch, which also attempts to optimize the field of view (or focal length). You may get lucky. If not, just try to input something plausible and see if that works better. For very unstructured image input, one can try to first stitch 2 or 3 images that have enough similar features in the overlap zone, and then gradually add more images (which perhaps require placing some manual control points). For such poorly planned image sequences, it may also take a bit of user experience to help the program find the optmizations that lead to a composite that we as humans understand to be correct, but which for a machine may look less likely than another mathematical solution. The under-the-hood math involved can sometimes lead to different solutions, and we may need to coach the program to the better one.

PTGUI is a very powerful dedicated application with very many tweakable features, so there are many tricks one can use if the automatic mode can't figure things out, but that may require following a bit of a learning curve which will take longer than a quick trial. Perhaps it helps to first watch some of the tutorial videos and help text and consult their forum, before starting the trial period.

Cheers,
Bart
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Marcus Christopher

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Re: Image stitch software that does NOT use metadata? For film scans?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2015, 03:34:41 am »

I would like to suggest Hugin: Like PTGUI this software is based on PanoramaTools, but it's free and Open Source. Compared to PTGUI Hugin is a bit more technical in how it works and maybe requires a bit more skill (you should have a good understanding of what you are doing). But it's extremely powerful and the feature set is huge. Really, I can't see any reason not to use Hugin, if you don't mind the steep learning curve.

What's more, the new version 2015.0.0 has been released recently. Here's the list of new features: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/releases/2015.0.0/en.shtml

(I'm in no way affiliated with the software.)
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Marcus Christopher
Deltagram Retouching and Post Production Studio: http://deltagram.eu/en
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