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Author Topic: Gary Winogrand  (Read 55158 times)

amolitor

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2015, 02:41:09 pm »

Some years back The New Yorker had a nice piece on inspiration. That is, the process by which the right answer just comes to you, apparently in an instant, and for no immediate reason.

This is, it turns out, a quite manageable process.

You need lots of relevant knowledge.

You need to brood on the problem at hand, intensely. Try solutions. Fail.

Then you need to take a break. Take a walk or a shower. Think about other things and let your subconscious try to match a solution, built from your brooding and your failed attempts, and your deep knowledge.

If you're lucky, the answer simply pops out of nowhere, mid-shower.

Being neurotic probably helps with several of these things, but you can also just do them on purpose.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2015, 02:45:07 pm »

Damn... I've been taking those showers frequently and only managed to end up with... a dry skin  ;D

amolitor

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2015, 02:53:48 pm »

It's unreliable!

Also, Hi Rob!
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Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2015, 04:54:30 pm »

It's unreliable!

Also, Hi Rob!


And Hi to you, too!

I touched on the unhappiness thing in another thread, the one about 'Street', when I posted an interview with Frank Horvat. In case some don't follow that thread, here is the link again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKOrtXBJ8MQ

As I'd imagined, in his case it's to do with the uncertainty in Jewish life, and uncertainty can do many different things to different folks.

I'm not Jewish, but have often wished that I was, in the fond hope that it might have given me a greater ability in the path I chose. Let's face it: so many wonderful artists across different genres are Jewish, so it can't be accident alone that stacks those genetic cards like that! And yes, I will always believe that it's genetic in the other sense, that you are either born with 'it' or you are not. The real question is about quantity of such a blessing/curse. And it sure can be both at the same time, especially if there's not enough of the 'it' to take you where you want to go!

Rob

Gulag

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2015, 06:08:35 pm »

"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn’t nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."

— Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
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"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2015, 04:04:50 am »

"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn’t nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."

— Aldous Huxley, Brave New World



Quite; life seems to seek a permanent state of flux. Boredom is when nothing happens, either way. Sometimes, boredom is the better option.

Rob

Gulag

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2015, 02:48:45 pm »



Quite; life seems to seek a permanent state of flux. Boredom is when nothing happens, either way. Sometimes, boredom is the better option.

Rob

"You never find happiness until you stop looking for it. My greatest happiness consists precisely in doing nothing whatever that is calculated to obtain happi­ness: and this, in the minds of most people, is the worst pos­sible course.

I will hold to the saying that: “Perfect joy is to be without joy. Perfect praise is to be without prasie.”

— Chuang Tzu,  239 BC
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"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2015, 03:50:31 pm »

"You never find happiness until you stop looking for it. My greatest happiness consists precisely in doing nothing whatever that is calculated to obtain happi­ness: and this, in the minds of most people, is the worst pos­sible course.

I will hold to the saying that: “Perfect joy is to be without joy. Perfect praise is to be without prasie.”

— Chuang Tzu,  239 BC


Maybe he saw me coming?

;-)

Rob C

Ray

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2015, 11:11:14 pm »

Interesting article! But I'm a bit puzzled by one of Winogrand's quotes; "Photos have no narrative content. They only describe light on surface."

That's a bit like saying, 'Novels do not have a narrative content. They just contain black smudges on white paper (ie. text)".

Is he trying to say that all narratives exist only in the mind? If that's what he's saying, then of course I agree.  ;)
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Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2015, 03:35:45 am »

Interesting article! But I'm a bit puzzled by one of Winogrand's quotes; "Photos have no narrative content. They only describe light on surface."

That's a bit like saying, 'Novels do not have a narrative content. They just contain black smudges on white paper (ie. text)".

Is he trying to say that all narratives exist only in the mind? If that's what he's saying, then of course I agree.  ;)


Perhaps he was just being kind; couldn't bring himself to state outright that, deep, deep inside he felt photography to be a pretty much empty art form - a doodle?

Rob
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 09:21:58 am by Rob C »
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Ray

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2015, 04:31:33 am »

Welcome back, Rob. After your long hiatus, with time to contemplate, we expect great insights.  ;)
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Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2015, 09:44:56 am »

Welcome back, Rob. After your long hiatus, with time to contemplate, we expect great insights.  ;)


Thanks, Ray,

Time to contemplate? You think? If only housework and eating didn't have to exist, then yep, there might be time for thought. As it is, it takes me all morning to get to the stage where I am clean, clad and can go out to face the world without being mistaken for a tourist.

Oh, I did get to shoot some snaps, design and submit two books, but they may or may not never see the light of day, which doesn't really matter. The point, actually, isn't economic: it's about getting things out of the system and preparing the self for new departures. I caught a David Bailey interview the other day and forgot to 'favourites' it, so can't rediscover it. However, the point is that he said that none of his books made money; it wasn't about that. If they don't make money, does it make a difference, beyond ego, if they don't get published? Anyway, I think ego is mainly a young person's hang-up.

Even more interestingly, he said that in his opinion, photography had died thirty years ago, and that his interest today (whenever 'today' was) was art in its various forms such as paint, snaps and sculpture. To tell the truth, as he and I are much the same age, I place the death at about the same period. I feign no success parallels between the two of us - if only! - but know that it all began to unfold about then, with money getting hard to find, with clients cutting back and/or buying cheaper/going bust; with the whole discipline being eroded by the shamateur input which, for the first time, found a chink in the wall because of economic toughness making pros unable to compete at some levels. Coupled with the sudden decline in photographers running their own studios, owning their own equipment - once the rule - a mess of for-hire operations came to being and so it went, ever more speedily down the economic sink.

Clearly, it didn't die altogether: what happened was that it polarized, with the top getting thinner (like hair) and the bottom spreading, as some bottoms do. What died was the happy middle ground, especially the mom 'n' pop operations where 'growth' was never the end, but that making a comfortable and fulfilling life for self and family was the name of the game. Now, I think you own either the Ferrari or the Fiesta, or you are a grey rep.

Evolution.

Rob
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 09:56:36 am by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2015, 10:38:00 am »


... what happened was that it polarized, with the top getting thinner (like hair) and the bottom spreading, as some bottoms do...

Never again is the mentioning of the term "flat organizational structure" going to connote for me the same image of a dry, bureaucratic term. If I ever go back to corporate meeting rooms, I would never be able to suppress a chuckle every time someone mentions it, nor delete that disturbing image that Rob has now forever etched in my mind  ;D

jjj

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2015, 04:10:25 pm »

Damn... I've been taking those showers frequently and only managed to end up with... a dry skin  ;D
You need to moisturise more!
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GrahamBy

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2015, 07:27:31 am »

"If we think that they may get upset for us taking the shot, we should put away those assumptions and go for the shot anyways. If we are concerned of offending people, take the shot anyways."

Kind of arrogant, no?
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stamper

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2015, 07:48:54 am »

"If we think that they may get upset for us taking the shot, we should put away those assumptions and go for the shot anyways. If we are concerned of offending people, take the shot anyways."

Kind of arrogant, no?

No it isn't imo. The more negative thoughts a street photographer has then the less successful images he/she will get. Assuming the photographer isn't harassing people then what is the harm? The Amateur Photographer magazine UK stated a while back if people don't like getting their picture taken in public then they should sit in the house. Possibly a bit harsh? I sometimes wish I was a bit bolder because I sometimes miss some good images because of reticence to "offend" people.

Ray

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2015, 08:49:46 am »

No it isn't imo. The more negative thoughts a street photographer has then the less successful images he/she will get. Assuming the photographer isn't harassing people then what is the harm? The Amateur Photographer magazine UK stated a while back if people don't like getting their picture taken in public then they should sit in the house. Possibly a bit harsh? I sometimes wish I was a bit bolder because I sometimes miss some good images because of reticence to "offend" people.

I tend to agree, Stamper. However, the problem is not always risking offending the subject photographed, but offending some of the viewers of Luminous Landscape, as I did when posting an image of a Thai Ladyboy a while back. I'm quite sure the Ladyboy would not have been at all offended by the display of her medical transformation on the internet.  ;)
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stamper

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2015, 08:55:47 am »

It happens Ray. You can't second guess people's reactions because some of them aren't sincere.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2015, 09:30:55 am »

The most offensive word of the 21st century: "offended"

Rob C

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Re: Gary Winogrand
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2015, 10:00:24 am »

"If we think that they may get upset for us taking the shot, we should put away those assumptions and go for the shot anyways. If we are concerned of offending people, take the shot anyways."

Kind of arrogant, no?


Indeed, very much so.

It's invasion of privacy, whether legally defined as such or not. Everybody knows perfectly well when they are screwing somebody up, and as far as I can see, that's very often very much the motivation, mixed up with "gee, look how brave I am!" However, if you ask the 'subject' and they say okay, then no sweat - shoot.

Photographing the socially inept, the down 'n' outs, the maimed and the ugly, the dwarfed, and all the other involutary, disadvantaged eye-magnets that exist isn't terribly nice. Regarding Ray's Ladyboys, well that's a bit different, because I expect that they are looking for attention and feel part of the carnival of the street, so you give 'em some gratification, and in their own country, I expect they could just as easily cut you to bits if they felt annoyed...

In my own case, I have a wish to collect pix of beautiful strangers, but I face two major problems:

a. there are very few walking the streets;
b. those that do seem to be accompanied by husbands etc. and there's little point in getting into 'conversations' for the sake of a silly website picture.

In fact I was mistaken: there are actually three problems, the third being that I wouldn't have taken very kindly to some dickhead with a camera sticking it in my wife's face.

I don't exclude my quest from some level of blame/guilt, only that I feel there's no bad intention or mockery - anything but; it's meant as a compliment, especially in my case, because I have so much past to draw from, filter and compare. Maybe that's why I see so few suitable candidates in the street...

Frankly, the whole damned thing is a bog of moral insecurity and uncertainty best left alone and to history, to a time when 'subjects' didn't know any better.

Actually, I think an overpowering desire to do 'street' is possbily a sense of personal lack. In my own case, were my wife still around, it wouldn't have entered my mind to seek my 'beauts'. (They are) "substitutes, yeah, substitutes; that's all they are," is a quotation from one of our latter-day street philosophers, Bob Dylan. Sums it up beautifully. Maybe it's actually a matter of 'get a life'.

Rob C
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 10:03:56 am by Rob C »
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