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Author Topic: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation  (Read 35273 times)

Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« on: August 13, 2015, 05:08:35 pm »

I really like the Hue/Saturation adjustment tool, but it's limited and I wonder if I can create a mask that mimics it's behavior. The tool works great by targeting specific colors over other tools that target brightness ranges. So, it's great in targeting the right colors, but the adjustments are limited. I can't use it much to remove casts. For example, reducing the saturation slider will take away color, not fix the cast. The hue slider doesn't usually changes the colors in the right direction. In this regard the Selective Color tool is much better, it gives precise control over the adjustment, but is rather limited in selecting the right color.

I don't think there is a tool that combines the strengths of both tools so I am looking for a way to create a mask that mimics the color selection range in hue/saturation tool while I freely adjust it with any tool I choose. Is that possible?

Thanks
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CoyoteButtes

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 07:21:02 pm »

I would recommend that you take a look at Tony Kuyper's actions panel. It is now available in version 4 as an Adobe Add-On.

Here is a link to info on Tony's website: http://www.goodlight.us/writing/actionspanelv4/panelv4.html
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 06:08:26 am »

I would recommend that you take a look at Tony Kuyper's actions panel.

As an alternative to Tony's excellent tools, and also because of it's amazing capabilities to improve image Clarity, the Topaz Clarity plugin offers pretty good and fast masking capabilities, normal/EdgeAware/ColorAware/Gradient, with rather complete Hue/Saturation/Luminance controls. They can be used in isolation, or in combination with the Clarity controls. I occasionally only use the HSL controls if the contrast adjustments are already as intended. They can also be used to locally address things like colored fringing.

Cheers,
Bart
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kirkt

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 01:28:46 pm »

There are many different ways to target a color or range of colors, including masks.  You can use the Select > Color Range tool to target specific colors or groups of colors based on your picking and dialing in the "fuzziness" slider to make a selection, which you can convert to a mask and apply to any adjustment you would like.  (On an unrelated note, I just realized that in PS CC2014, at least, there is a Color Range preset for Out-Of-Gamut colors - I did not realize this!).

You can also make an adjustment and use the Blend If sliders to target the adjustment to specific regions of the R, G, B and Gray channels, as well as the fall-off of each targeted region.

You can use Curves or Levels or selective color and adjust each individual channel across the luminosity range. 

Maybe you have an example of the problem so it will be easier to suggest an efficient approach?

You may also want to consider the very powerful tool, an external application, called 3DLUT Creator:

http://3dlutcreator.com

That has a unique set of color tools that you can use to target specific color and tonal ranges of your image and control their final appearance - the adjustments are packaged into a LUT that you can load in PS as an adjustment layer (Color Lookup).  The application is tightly integrated with Photoshop and does a lot of the handoff of the LUT to PS automatically, etc.  It also has a color matching module that will permit you to shoot a reference target (such as a color checker, etc.) and then create a LUT that optimizes the color and exposure of the target - an on-the-fly profile of the camera and lighting.

There is also a Photoshop action that builds a set of adjustment curves called "Jacob's Ladder" - these can be RGB-based or Lab-based curves.  They operate by permitting one to target the characteristics of the image based on the representation of a particular channel in the image.  So, let's say I wanted to make all of the darker reds more orange, I could adjust that particular point on the appropriate adjustment layer curve.  You have to try them to see how they work.  Again, it gives you precise control over how you target and adjust tones and colors.

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/colortheory/jl.html

Maybe some of this is helpful.

kirk



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Peano

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 12:35:18 pm »

I really like the Hue/Saturation adjustment tool, but it's limited and I wonder if I can create a mask that mimics it's behavior. The tool works great by targeting specific colors over other tools that target brightness ranges. So, it's great in targeting the right colors, but the adjustments are limited. I can't use it much to remove casts. For example, reducing the saturation slider will take away color, not fix the cast. The hue slider doesn't usually changes the colors in the right direction. In this regard the Selective Color tool is much better, it gives precise control over the adjustment, but is rather limited in selecting the right color.

I don't think there is a tool that combines the strengths of both tools so I am looking for a way to create a mask that mimics the color selection range in hue/saturation tool while I freely adjust it with any tool I choose. Is that possible?

Thanks

Have you tried Select > Color Range?

Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 02:25:16 pm »

I would recommend that you take a look at Tony Kuyper's actions panel. It is now available in version 4 as an Adobe Add-On.

Here is a link to info on Tony's website: http://www.goodlight.us/writing/actionspanelv4/panelv4.html


Omg Coyote! I owe you a roadrunner! Seriously speaking this is exactly what I was looking for. Funny enough I used TK masks since long time ago, but never knew he created such an awesome tool to combine and automate the creation of all the masks including colored ones which are new to me.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 02:33:49 pm by Abdulrahman Aljabri »
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 02:32:53 pm »

As an alternative to Tony's excellent tools, and also because of it's amazing capabilities to improve image Clarity, the Topaz Clarity plugin offers pretty good and fast masking capabilities, normal/EdgeAware/ColorAware/Gradient, with rather complete Hue/Saturation/Luminance controls. They can be used in isolation, or in combination with the Clarity controls. I occasionally only use the HSL controls if the contrast adjustments are already as intended. They can also be used to locally address things like colored fringing.

Cheers,
Bart

They really developed so many interesting tools I wonder why they dont create their own stand alone software to compete with photoshop. 



There are many different ways to target a color or range of colors, including masks.  You can use the Select > Color Range tool to target specific colors or groups of colors based on your picking and dialing in the "fuzziness" slider to make a selection, which you can convert to a mask and apply to any adjustment you would like.  (On an unrelated note, I just realized that in PS CC2014, at least, there is a Color Range preset for Out-Of-Gamut colors - I did not realize this!).

You can also make an adjustment and use the Blend If sliders to target the adjustment to specific regions of the R, G, B and Gray channels, as well as the fall-off of each targeted region.

You can use Curves or Levels or selective color and adjust each individual channel across the luminosity range. 

Maybe you have an example of the problem so it will be easier to suggest an efficient approach?

You may also want to consider the very powerful tool, an external application, called 3DLUT Creator:

http://3dlutcreator.com

That has a unique set of color tools that you can use to target specific color and tonal ranges of your image and control their final appearance - the adjustments are packaged into a LUT that you can load in PS as an adjustment layer (Color Lookup).  The application is tightly integrated with Photoshop and does a lot of the handoff of the LUT to PS automatically, etc.  It also has a color matching module that will permit you to shoot a reference target (such as a color checker, etc.) and then create a LUT that optimizes the color and exposure of the target - an on-the-fly profile of the camera and lighting.

There is also a Photoshop action that builds a set of adjustment curves called "Jacob's Ladder" - these can be RGB-based or Lab-based curves.  They operate by permitting one to target the characteristics of the image based on the representation of a particular channel in the image.  So, let's say I wanted to make all of the darker reds more orange, I could adjust that particular point on the appropriate adjustment layer curve.  You have to try them to see how they work.  Again, it gives you precise control over how you target and adjust tones and colors.

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/colortheory/jl.html

Maybe some of this is helpful.

kirk


Thanks for all the detailed feedback. To answer your question I am normally trying to correct multiple color casts in interior spaces. Normally if you shoot in daylight and have artificial lights on, there will be 2 casts. That is what I need masks to target. It's not easy because sometime the furniture is in the same color category as the color cast.


Have you tried Select > Color Range?

Color Range works more on luminous range not so much color.
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jrsforums

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 04:52:52 pm »

As an alternative to Tony's excellent tools, and also because of it's amazing capabilities to improve image Clarity, the Topaz Clarity plugin offers pretty good and fast masking capabilities, normal/EdgeAware/ColorAware/Gradient, with rather complete Hue/Saturation/Luminance controls. They can be used in isolation, or in combination with the Clarity controls. I occasionally only use the HSL controls if the contrast adjustments are already as intended. They can also be used to locally address things like colored fringing.

Cheers,
Bart

Recent Topaz seminar on combining TK masks and Topaz.  Recording is online now for attendees, but should be on Topaz YouTube site shortly.

Sean Bagshaw has a set of wonderful videos on using TKactions.  Latest is specific to TK version 4....which includes using color range (in the TK panel) to create masks.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 04:57:42 pm by jrsforums »
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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 06:40:23 pm »

Recent Topaz seminar on combining TK masks and Topaz.  Recording is online now for attendees, but should be on Topaz YouTube site shortly.

This is from february this year: http://blog.topazlabs.com/webinar/illuminate-photos-using-topaz-luminosity-masks-presented-joe-reardon/
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jrsforums

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2015, 07:25:46 pm »

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kirkt

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 10:21:32 am »

When you shoot your ambient + artificial lighting interior, can you lock exposure and shoot an image (or HDR sequence) with ambient only and then a second sequence with ambient + artificial lights (all lights or sets of lights). Then you can subtract the ambient from the ambient + artificial image and get a map of the artificial light contribution. This is best done in linear, 32bit.

Kirk
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rdonson

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 03:11:20 pm »

This is from february this year: http://blog.topazlabs.com/webinar/illuminate-photos-using-topaz-luminosity-masks-presented-joe-reardon/

Thanks for the link!  It was very helpful.  I just installed TK's new actions for PS CC 2015 but the transition between the old and new actions is easily made. 

Here's the YouTube link https://youtu.be/ixr0vuQBSAM
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2015, 03:00:42 pm »

When you shoot your ambient + artificial lighting interior, can you lock exposure and shoot an image (or HDR sequence) with ambient only and then a second sequence with ambient + artificial lights (all lights or sets of lights).

Yes that is one technique I use but it does not work all the time. In many spaces you can't control the lights. Imagine trying to turn off the lights off in a hotel lobby.


Then you can subtract the ambient from the ambient + artificial image and get a map of the artificial light contribution. This is best done in linear, 32bit.

Kirk

I am interested to know more about this process. Can you please describe the steps?
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Pictus

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 04:14:59 pm »

About Luminosity Masks, I like the free Interactive Luminosity Masks
http://svenstork.com/essays/interactive-luminosity-masks/

3D LUT Creator is outstanding, for more simple selective tool check
http://www.colormancer.com/colormancer-color-correction.htm
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new_haven

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 10:39:07 pm »

Filter> Other> HSB/HSL will create a saturation mask.
Also, you can make a color adjustment with selective color or hue/saturation and set the blend mode to difference. Make a copy of either the red, green, or blue channel and use levels or curves to adjust the mask.
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brandon

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 03:57:56 am »

About Luminosity Masks, I like the free Interactive Luminosity Masks
http://svenstork.com/essays/interactive-luminosity-masks/

3D LUT Creator is outstanding, for more simple selective tool check
http://www.colormancer.com/colormancer-color-correction.htm
Has anyone tried to install Sven Stork's interactive luminosity masks on CS5?
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kirkt

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Re: Need Masks that work like Hue/Saturation
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 01:59:57 pm »

If you cannot control the artificial lighting (like the lobby of a hotel) then this method is not very useful.  However, if you can isolate the ambient from the artificial, then you can mix them in post, and correct one to match the other.  An alternative is to shoot the artificial lighting at night, when the ambient daylight is not as strong in the scene.  Then you can combine the ambient daylit scene with the artificial light from the night shot.

Again, this needs to be done in HDR (32 bit).  Once you have your 32bit data, you can add light, use the Photo filter to tame a cast on a per light basis, etc.  You can stack the lighting layers and use linear dodge blend mode plus and exposure adjustment layer per light to mix light color and level, as well as a master exposure layer to control overall exposure.  Then export the document as a 32bit TIFF and you can tone it in ACR, or apply the Camera Raw filter in PS CC as a smart object to get the overall look you want.

Obviously, the applicability of this method is not suitable for all environments.

Here is how I have done this previously, from an old post on another forum - I did not mix any ambient light, but the ambient shot would just be another HDR sequence in the layer stack.  The end of the write up below deals with a color cast from a CFL bulb in the same scene as other bulbs, correcting the cast from that single bulb to match the other bulbs.  You will also see how, when you apply a color filter to the HDR data for a single light, you can relight the scene with that lamp and the contributions from that lamp are rendered accurately for light cast on the scene, as well as reflections of the light source in the scene.

If you have access to the artificial lights, in terms of turning them on and off, you can shoot ambient with them off, then shoot ambient plus each light group.  You can use the same approach and balance ambient with artificial.

***OLD POST***

HDR Lighting Tutorial[/color]

So, I did this exercise a while ago and, frankly, I may have already posted this.  However, it bears repeating now that HDR techniques are ubiquitous and not everyone is aware of the true power of HDR imaging.

This exercise uses HDR image acquisition to create a scene-referred luminance representation of a typical interior lighting scenario.  So what?  Well, when you acquire a scene-referred luminance map of each light source (individually) you can mix them together to create ANY lighting combination from those light sources for that scene.  It's like having dimmer switches for each lamp and being able to control them all to create any combination you want!

In this exercise, I acquired an HDR image of the scene for one light at a time – three lights in the scene meant three HDR images.  The typical HDR image acquisition process applies – you vary the shutter speed with fixed ISO, aperture and white balance to capture full dynamic range for each light.  Although it may not be so obvious, you want to do this at night so that there is no stray ambient light affecting your lamp HDRs.  That doesn't mean you cannot also acquire a daylight HDR shot with no lamps to add to the mix … the options are endless.

You can also do this for flash photography, by varying the power output of the flash to change the EV of each shot in the HDR sequence – that technique requires some additional know-how and is beyond the scope of this exercise.  But, think about it this way – you can use ONE flash, repositioned in a static scene, to simulate a studio of multiple flashes, that you can mix in post to create any mixture of lighting ratios you want.  Totally cool.

Anyway – back to the exercise.

Methods – Setting up the scene[/color]

So, Figure 1 is the basic scene with the three lights labeled for reference.  This is a screen grab of the 32bit image preview in Photoshop, so there is basic gamma tone mapping applied for display.  In this screen grab, Light one is “on” and the other lights are “off.”



Figure 1 – The basic interior scene with the three lamps labeled for reference.  This figure is screen grab of the 32bit preview in Photoshop and is illuminated by Light 1 only.  incidentally, the orange color i used for the labels is the same for all three labels, but the label for Light 1 appears darker because it is in the proximity of the very bright area of the image from the lamp while the other labels are on darker background and appear lighter - your brain is awesome, isn't it?


Light 1 provides enough illumination to see the scene, which is the point of this figure.  Incidentally, I placed a Color Checker under each lamp as I shot the sequence for that lamp.  Lights 1 and 2 are CFL bulbs and Light 3 is a straight up incandescent bulb.  You can white balance for each light source if you choose, or shoot all lamps with the same WB.  The nice thing about HDR data is that you can WB in post with no problems – more on that later.



Figure 2 – Our scene (screen grab of 32bit preview) with all three lights “on.”


Figure 2 is a screen grab with all three lights at 0 EV exposure.  Here is a good spot to explain how the document that contains all the data is constructed.  The document is a 32bit file with each of the HDR lamp images brought into it on its own layer.  Figure 3 is a screen grab of the layer structure for the document.  For each light there are three layers (in stacking order):

1)   A Photo Filter adjustment layer*
2)   An Exposure adjustment layer*
3)   The HDR layer for that light


*Note that the adjustment layers are “clipping layers” set to affect ONLY the image layer to which they are clipped.  To set an adjustment layer to clip to the layer below it, hover your cursor over the boundary between the adjustment layer and the layer below it while holding down the “Option” key (Mac) or “Alt” key (PC) and then click on the boundary.





Figure 3 – The layer structure for creating the HDR manipulation of our scene lighting.  Note the background layer is set to “Normal” blend mode, but the subsequent image layers are all set to Linear Dodge (add) blend mode – this is the key to getting a physically correct result.


The critical and elegant aspect of this technique is that when all of your data are in linear, 32bit form you simply add the contribution of each light to get the correct mixture as would occur in real life.  That is, the first light (the BACKGROUND layer) blend mode should be set to “Normal.”  However, and this is the most important part,

The blend mode for subsequent light layers should be set to LINEAR DODGE (ADD).

This is super important.  It tells Photoshop to add the contributions of the subsequent light layers to the background, which is the physically correct method of combining the lighting to get an accurate result.   NB: ALL of the adjustment layer blend modes should all be NORMAL.  Figures 4, 5 and 6 are screen grabs of the 32bit preview for each individual light on its own in the scene.



Figure 4 – Light 1 only in the scene – 32bit preview.




Figure 5 – Light 2 only in the scene – 32bit preview.




Figure 4 – Light 3 only in the scene – 32bit preview.


Methods – Controlling the lighting[/color]

So, now we have our scene set up – time to turn the lights on and off!  To control the “brightness” of each light, you simply increase or decrease the Exposure for the specific light.  You can see the general effect as you mix the lights together, but it is easier to think in terms of lighting ratios – that is, Light 1 is twice as bright as Lights 2 and 3, etc.  I also stack an Exposure adjustment layer at the very top of the stack to control overall exposure of the scene – you can use this, as well as the 32bit exposure control slider in the lower left of the window to control the exposure in the preview.

That’s it really.  You are still operating in a 32bit world, so with all of the adjustments you make, the lighting is being added together correctly to create the final mix.  If you had the patience to leave your camera set up on a tripod all day, you can even add in that daylit HDR scene to the mix if you choose.

When I get the mix I want, I Duplicate the image and then flatten the duplicate and then use HDR toning in PS or whatever HDR application I feel like to do the tone mapping, etc.

Extra Bonus – Get funky[/color]

So, you may be asking yourself, what is the Photo Filter adjustment layer for?  Guess what?!  Not only can you adjust the light’s brightness, but you can gel each light.  This may be useful for subtle color balance or for creative awesomeness.  Figure 7 depicts a purplish gel applied to Light 2, for example and Figure 8 turns my ho hum living room into a disco.



Figure 7 – Light 2 with a purple gel.




Figure 8 – Woot!  Freak out.

Note that in the disco image, the reflection of the orange gelled lamp (light 1) in the glass of the framed painting to the left of the fire place mantle is correct (see Figure 4 to get an idea of the reflection).  The colored lighting falls on the objects within the scene and mixes correctly.  This kind of power gives you the ability to turn day into night, or plain into awesome.


So, that’s that.  HDR is more than making dramatic tonemapped images.  HDR imaging provides you with the ability to control light after the fact.  When you shoot an exposure sequence of a single lamp and combine it into a single HDR data set, you have captured the scene-referred luminance map of the environment for that light source.  You can manipulate it to relight the scene to your heart’s content and change the look of the environment in subtle and creative ways.

Boom, POW!

Have fun,

kirk

Here are some tone mapped examples.  In both cases, I saved the 32bit flattened file as a TIFF and used ACR to tonemap - yep, in case you were unaware, ACR 7/LR 4  can tonemap 32 bit files, as long as they are TIFFs.

kirk




« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 02:16:24 pm by kirkt »
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