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Author Topic: Platinum/Palladium question  (Read 90177 times)

Herbc

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Platinum/Palladium question
« on: August 09, 2015, 04:27:02 pm »

This may be the wrong forum, but there are a lot of smart guys on this one, so the question:
I plan to make some pl/pd prints from my digital negatives.  Having not done this, I search Bostick and Sullivan, and they have a Pl/pd kit specifically for digital negatives, developed my Sullivan, who uses sodium in the formula.
Anybody have experience with the B&S pl/pdNa2 materials?
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TylerB

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 08:08:28 pm »

there are some alt process forums with very knowledgeable folks that I'm sure can answer this, sorry I don't have links, try some googling.
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tim wolcott

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 07:55:17 pm »

Its far more important to focus and make sure your negs are perfect.  Choose what process and then create the profile test to insure you have the right density for your tones.  This way you can make them perfect without making a bad print.  It can be done, don;t let others tell you otherwise.  I designed this process nearly 20 years ago.  Tim
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JohnBrew

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 07:34:49 am »

Look up "The Platinum Print" on this site. I believe there is also another article in LL with more images. The British magazine Black+White Photography had a terrific article on this subject by David Chow in the May, 2009 issue. He also recommends Bostick & Sullivan. I started buying the supplies to attempt some of these prints but the price of platinum went higher and I sort of forgot about it. Some day I may continue along this path. It is a time intensive project but well worth the effort, imo, for an image which will stand out as different and long-lasting.

Herbc

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 01:21:05 pm »

I managed to get in touch with Dick Arentz, who wrote the book on the subject.  He said he uses pt/pdNa2
on his digital negatives, so I ordered that from B&S.

I am not sure what is meant by "profiling a negative".  I have been printing digital negs on Silver Chloride papers from Michael Smith, his Lodima which mimics AZO, and the profile I got for that was supplied by a friend who is big into alt processes.
 
Lotta homework for this, for sure. 8)
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richardboutwell

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2015, 12:21:51 pm »

I managed to get in touch with Dick Arentz, who wrote the book on the subject.  He said he uses pt/pdNa2
on his digital negatives, so I ordered that from B&S.

I am not sure what is meant by "profiling a negative".  I have been printing digital negs on Silver Chloride papers from Michael Smith, his Lodima which mimics AZO, and the profile I got for that was supplied by a friend who is big into alt processes.
 
Lotta homework for this, for sure. 8)

Herb, what inks/rip/method are you using for the digital negatives for printing on Lodima? I did some testing with the Cone digital neg inkset and got some fantastic results with it. It has been a while, and I need to order more ink to do some additional testing with some different methods, but am curious how this is working out for you.
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Herbc

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2015, 01:52:56 pm »

Richard, I am using the regular Epson inks for the 3800 for making the negative. Sandy King gave me his profile for AZO, and I have some decent prints from that.  Keep in mind I am almost 80, and have been VERY slow in getting things done.  I am seriously thinking about getting an Epson P800, as my current printer is almost 10 years old.
From what I have read, I will need to measure some densities to get up to 1.35 or more for pt/pd printing.  More learning.
I studied on the piezo ink thing, just felt like it was too much for me to get into.  It will be a miracle if I have good results with pt/pd.

Happy to share the profile if you like. 8)
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Herbc

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 01:55:34 pm »

I am using Roy's QTR rip  program, if that is what the question was.
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donbga

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2015, 05:32:55 pm »

I am using Roy's QTR rip  program, if that is what the question was.

Herb,

I recommend that you go to Bostick & Sullivans online forum and post your question(s) there.

The NA2 platinum solution is used to create various contrast ranges of palladium prints.

I could write you a very long post since I've been printing palladium with digital and film negatives for years but for an intro you will be better served by joining the B&S forum. As a beginning palladium printer there is a great amount of fundamental information about the process itself sans digital negatives that you need to come to grips with before making digital negs.

Best of luck,

Don Bryant

 
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Herbc

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 10:51:15 am »

thanks Don. I will do that. 8)
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deanwork

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2015, 02:22:27 pm »

I taught this process about 10 years ago back when we were using the Burkholder method with Epson K2 inks. Our platinum prints using the pictorico film were very nice. The biggest variable I found at that time was the paper. When I started using the Platine paper made for platinum the prints looked much nicer than anything else I tried. It is expensive, but everything about this process is expensive and labor intensive and you get what you pay for.

If I were doing this today I'd probably set up an Epson 3880 and use the Cone system out of QTR and the Pictorico film. I think you are going to end up with the best smoothness and sharpness with that inkset and printing them 16 bit 2880. Sometimes I really with I could play around with it, but just don't have a darkroom anymore.

john
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donbga

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2015, 06:12:13 pm »

I taught this process about 10 years ago back when we were using the Burkholder method with Epson K2 inks. Our platinum prints using the pictorico film were very nice. The biggest variable I found at that time was the paper. When I started using the Platine paper made for platinum the prints looked much nicer than anything else I tried. It is expensive, but everything about this process is expensive and labor intensive and you get what you pay for.

If I were doing this today I'd probably set up an Epson 3880 and use the Cone system out of QTR and the Pictorico film. I think you are going to end up with the best smoothness and sharpness with that inkset and printing them 16 bit 2880. Sometimes I really with I could play around with it, but just don't have a darkroom anymore.

john

Dan Burkholder's method is now very long in the tooth, there are better methods available today than his though I have a lot of respect for Dan's work.

As for the Cone system it is very inflexible and leaves the user with little flexibility, in the end the prints start looking the same. Additionally his contrast ranges were calculated using white light densitometers rather than UV which means they are not as accurate as one might wish.

Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative system is probably the most approachable system for the beginner and if you are using a Mac his Curve Calculator II Hybrid Curve software is extremely flexible providing easy manipulation of contrast ranges allowing for more expressive approaches for alternative process(UV) printing not just palladium printing. For example it can be easily used for Cyanotypes, Van Dyke Brown, Agyrotype and so on.

QTR is certainly a very viable system but it does have a learning curve (as well as Nelson's PDN system).

Which ever system the user chooses, they will all require effort implementing them. The process one chooses also needs to be understood to enable trouble shooting. Choice of paper as you mention is very important. These days Berger Cot 320 is a fairly easy paper to adopt and can provide excellent results. Other papers may have to be coaxed with a presoak of Oxalic acid or Sulfamic acid to have the optimum pH.

A darkroom is not required for most processes such as palladium, cyanotype or gum for example. Room illumination without UV light sources such as sunlight streaming through windows and strong fluorescent lighting will suffice. Kallitype and Agyrotype are sensitive to white light and can fog somewhat easily.

And BTW, platinum is rarely used except in small amounts to alter contrast or color of a print. In fact, pure platinum prints are difficult to make and are quite expensive.

I strongly recommend Dick Arentz's  book or Weese and Sullivan's book as good references. Arentz's book tends to be very technical and maybe off putting for the beginner. Carl Weese's video found on the net gives the user a good idea of the basic steps of processing.

It maybe worth while for a beginner to consider a workshop to get the basic foundation. Kerik Kouklis has workshops at the Photographers formulary which explains the process and how to create digital negatives using QTR. Check his website for specific information: http://www.kerik.com/workshops/

Don Bryant


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Scott Martin

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 10:47:12 pm »

We can use modern color management and colorimetery to create ICC Profiles for all Alt-Photo processes. In my experience, this supersedes all other curve creation methods. It's an open process that I've been teaching workshops on internationally for many years. I've outlined the process and provided a few handy resource files available for download at:

http://www.on-sight.com/using-i1profiler-for-qtr-grayscale-measurement-and-profiling/

Bostick and Sullivan chemistry has always been excellent, BTW. Have been using their Plat/Palladium chemistry for over 20 years...
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donbga

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Re: Platinum/Palladium question
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2015, 02:13:42 pm »

We can use modern color management and colorimetery to create ICC Profiles for all Alt-Photo processes. In my experience, this supersedes all other curve creation methods. It's an open process that I've been teaching workshops on internationally for many years. I've outlined the process and provided a few handy resource files available for download at:

http://www.on-sight.com/using-i1profiler-for-qtr-grayscale-measurement-and-profiling/

Bostick and Sullivan chemistry has always been excellent, BTW. Have been using their Plat/Palladium chemistry for over 20 years...

Hello Scott,

Perhaps I have missed it somewhere but how does one go about printing the first negative for the 21 step  digital step tablet. Or to ask more clearly how should one establish initial ink limits for the transparency material the negative will be printed on. The same as establishing limits for paper?

Thanks,

Don Bryant
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