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Author Topic: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems  (Read 30492 times)

Frans Waterlander

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NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« on: August 07, 2015, 12:18:11 am »

Having had in succession two 24" NEC P242W monitors with SpectraView with flicker issues that as of yet have not been resolved, I upgraded to a 24 " NEC PA242W with SpectraView, but this monitor is having different issues. After calibrating to 105cd/m^2 and 5200K, everything looked great. However, upon powering down and then up again, SpectraView reports that everything is fine and calibrated, but it isn't: luminance is not 105, but about 127cd/m^2 and the CCT is not 5200K but about 7000K. Powering down and up multiple times yielded the same results, except one time only SpectraView detected that calibration was not on and corrected it to the required settings. Switching calibration off and on multiple times did not result in correction, except one time only did SpectraView detect the issue and corrected it. The Factory Preset is about 127cd/m^2 and 7000K, so it looks like the monitor is most of the time in Factory Preset mode, while SpectraView claims it is in calibrated mode.
Another anomaly is that there are three different serial numbers: one printed on the label on the product, a different one as detected by SpectraView and yet a different one presented when going to the on-board menu information page.
NEC Level 2 technical support is stumped and is consulting with others within NEC.
Has anybody seen this kind of issue with this or other NEC SpectraView monitors and what was the resolution? Your inputs are greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 01:34:25 am by Frans Waterlander »
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Czornyj

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2015, 02:28:32 pm »

What kind of sensor are you using? There's no factory preset that is anywhere near CCT 7000K, 127cd/m^2. Never seen a P/PA display that behave like that, it all sounds completly crazy...
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2015, 03:00:36 pm »

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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2015, 03:36:49 pm »

Czornyj, I use the NEC SpectraSensor Pro (by x-rite).
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Czornyj

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2015, 04:48:32 pm »

PA242W are factory calibrated out of the box, and after SpectraSensor/i1Display Pro + SpectraView II calibration they're deadly accurate. I had checked it with lab-grade spectroradiometr (worth 10k €), and it's spot on (see X-Rite sample 1 and 2 results):





How did you validate calibration results?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 05:02:42 pm by Czornyj »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 07:04:09 pm »

CzornYj, You didn't say to what CCT the PA242W is supposed to be calibrated, but guessing from your list it looks like 6500K. It's scary how much different the results are with the various sensors!
When I calibrate the PA242W with the NEC SpectraSensor Pro to 105cd/,^2 and 5200K it too is right on (+/- slight variations of course), both in terms of the reported calibration results and when I verify it with separate readings with the same sensor. After powering down and up again, SpectraView reports the monitor to be in calibrated mode (to 105cd/m^2 and 5200K), but the monitor has about the same values as the Factory Preset mode,  about 127cd/m^2 and a little below 7000K.
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2015, 07:11:29 pm »

It's scary how much different the results are with the various sensors!
No, it's to be expected and puts another hole in your old article that folks should always calibrate to D56 (or was it 6500K, doesn't matter):
http://solux.net/ies_files/Digital%20Darkroom%20Lighting%202013.pdf

We went down that rabbit hole with you what, couple years ago? The Solux (and now NEC) numbers you were sure were correct were not? Even though you didn't have any hardware, like Czornyj has to make such a statement.
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=79604.msg641245#msg641245
Quote
When I calibrate the PA242W with the NEC SpectraSensor Pro to 105cd/,^2 and 5200K it too is right on (+/- slight variations of course), both in terms of the reported calibration results and when I verify it with separate readings with the same sensor.
Did you think measuring something twice with the same sensor would give you anything useful? If it's right or wrong the first or 2nd time, one would hope it's consistent (but possibly wrong). I hopped in our last 'debate' you'd learn that having an known reference device that one can use to compare the accuracy of another is necessary. Seems you haven't learned much since then and that your idea there's something wrong with this unit might very well be your continued misunderstandings.
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Czornyj

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2015, 07:57:00 pm »

After powering down and up again, SpectraView reports the monitor to be in calibrated mode (to 105cd/m^2 and 5200K), but the monitor has about the same values as the Factory Preset mode,  about 127cd/m^2 and a little below 7000K.
Where it reports such values? How do you read them or measure them? If anything would change in monitor settings after the calibration, SpectraView would recognise it and suggest to revert it. Which "Factory Preset" mode, there's a lot of preset modes...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 07:59:02 pm by Czornyj »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2015, 08:20:34 pm »

Czornyj, When the computer powers up, a SpectraView window pops up that says it is verifying monitor settings. If it detects that the monitor is not in the previous calibrated mode it should ask if you want to restore calibration values.
Whether or not you are in calibration mode and the associated values are reported when you run SV. As stated before, I measure the values with the NEC sensor and get very different readings, as reported before, for the values right after calibrating (they agree with my targets) and after I power down and up.
With this particular monitor, after I calibrate everything looks fine, when you run SV, it says it's calibrated to my values and subsequent measurements agree. When I power down and then up again, the monitor looks clearly too bright and too bluish, SV verification doesn't result in a message and when I run SV it says I'm calibrated to my values, but a measurement shows it is more than likely in Factory Preset mode with about 127cd/m^2 and about 7000K.
So, yes, you would expect SV to notice and ask if I want to restore calibration values, but it doesn't and yes, I would expect when I run SV it would report the monitor is not calibrated but it says it is and shows my target values and measures way off.
I'm aware of only one Factory Preset; this may be different in Europe.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 08:23:39 pm by Frans Waterlander »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2015, 08:37:37 pm »

Andrew, You said: "Did you think measuring something twice with the same sensor would give you anything useful?"
It doesn't tell me anything about accuracy. It tells me when things change. It says one time about 105cd/m^2 and about 5200K and the next time it says about 127cd/m^2 and about 7000K. That's very useful information, disagrees with what SV tells me and agrees with what I see with my own eyes. Get it now? Understand now that there is something totally wrong?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2015, 08:45:44 pm »

Understand now that there is something totally wrong?
I've understood there's something totally wrong and completely crazy since your first post (of far too many) complaining about the multiple unique problems with multiple NEC's you've had.
So this one, unlike that last two at least don't flicker? Progress I suppose.
Hook the unit up to a Mac, outside your environment and let us know if you suffer the same 'issues'.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2015, 12:55:42 am »

Get your facts straight, Andrew. Instead of claiming that I always advice people to calibrate at one specific color temp (as I did in the past in what you correctly called an old article of 2013), you know that I no longer do that. On February 3, 2014 I sent you a private message and referred you to a post of mine on both photo.net and LuLa that reads as follows:

"Monitor calibration - Andrew Rodney has a point

Frans Waterlander , Feb 03, 2014; 03:49 p.m.

Until recently, I've had a near-perfect monitor-to-print match using SoLux 5000K bulbs (which are advertised as having an actual CCT of 4900K) to illuminate my prints and calibrating my monitor to 4900K. When I recently got my NEC P232W with SpectraViewII, I still got a good match, but not near-perfect. It turned out that a calibration at 5200K gave the best match.

So, Andrew Rodney appears to have a point when he recommends to tweak the monitor color temp to obtain the best monitor-to-print match, although I wouldn't go so far to claim that the SoLux bulb and monitor color temperatures are "all over the place"."

So, stop spreading misinformation and be a little more intellectually honest.
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Czornyj

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2015, 07:39:44 am »

Czornyj, When the computer powers up, a SpectraView window pops up that says it is verifying monitor settings. If it detects that the monitor is not in the previous calibrated mode it should ask if you want to restore calibration values.
Whether or not you are in calibration mode and the associated values are reported when you run SV. As stated before, I measure the values with the NEC sensor and get very different readings, as reported before, for the values right after calibrating (they agree with my targets) and after I power down and up.
With this particular monitor, after I calibrate everything looks fine, when you run SV, it says it's calibrated to my values and subsequent measurements agree. When I power down and then up again, the monitor looks clearly too bright and too bluish, SV verification doesn't result in a message and when I run SV it says I'm calibrated to my values, but a measurement shows it is more than likely in Factory Preset mode with about 127cd/m^2 and about 7000K.
So, yes, you would expect SV to notice and ask if I want to restore calibration values, but it doesn't and yes, I would expect when I run SV it would report the monitor is not calibrated but it says it is and shows my target values and measures way off.
I'm aware of only one Factory Preset; this may be different in Europe.

Check it with NEC MultiProfiler software, or try to enable calibrated mode manually in advanced OSD menu. I have no idea how it's possible, unless you're using multiple signal sources (DP, DVI, HDMI etc.) - PA remembers calibration for each source individually. The second option is that you're measuring the display with different software, and apply wrong spectral calibration correction, but so or so there shouldn't be such a big difference (i1D3 is pretty darn close to standard CMF)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 07:42:37 am by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2015, 08:49:41 am »

It IS completely crazy.
For your entertainment only (if you dare):
http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00dQYu

OMG. The book. This is serious tin foil hat stuff:  "Obama, the most radical and corrupt president ever, has surrounded himself with Liberals, Progressives, Radicals, Socialists, at least one Communist and sympathizers with Maoism and Marxism" and so on and so on.

Andrew, I sometimes thought you were unnecessarily harsh with Frans. Not anymore. This is...words fail me.
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2015, 09:21:08 am »

OMG. The book. This is serious tin foil hat stuff:  "Obama, the most radical and corrupt president ever, has surrounded himself with Liberals, Progressives, Radicals, Socialists, at least one Communist and sympathizers with Maoism and Marxism" and so on and so on.
Andrew, I sometimes thought you were unnecessarily harsh with Frans. Not anymore. This is...words fail me.

The book and his views are merely a data point to Frans mythology. He is entitled to whatever flat earth political theories or religious theories he desires and I'd never argue with him on that stuff.

I was originally harsh with Frans due to his silly article (which is still up on the Solux site) and his advise that everyone should always calibrate to D65 (or whatever his puff piece stated). I attempted at the time to explain how that's not so. He argued as one would expect an author of a book on politics would, with contempt and disbelief of the facts.

He's posted very few times over the last couple of years here and on PhotoNet. But the few times he has, it's about problems he's seen with NEC displays. He always posts duplicate questions in both locations. It's always a question asking if other's see the same issues he see's as if he's looking for some solution. The answers in both locations from others have always been the same and clearly not what he wants to hear: No!

He's back again this year. A couple weeks ago about his old flicker issue. No one reported they saw what he asked about a couple years ago with NEC displays and no one reported the same last week. That didn't go well so he's back with a new problem.

Now we have this new NEC issue of a display reporting a CCT. Or three serial numbers (which he must have figured out or SpectraView wouldn’t run). So we're back to the book, tin foil hats as simply a window into how his mind works, nothing more.

Frans has an agenda, it's directed towards NEC for some reason. As I pointed out It IS completely crazy.

He writes:
Quote
Having had in succession two 24" NEC P242W monitors with SpectraView with flicker issues that as of yet have not been resolved, I upgraded to a 24 " NEC PA242W with SpectraView, but this monitor is having different issues

Upgraded? It's new, used or refurbished? If used or refurbished where did it come from? IF new, why not send it back?
Considering all the so called problems with is no less than three NEC's, why hasn't Frans hooked up the displays to another computer system and OS outside his location to ensure it's neither those computer components or something environmental (too much tin foil?).

Anyway this is all pointless and another witch hunt and people here and over on PhotoNet need to see this is no different than Frans insistence that everyone calibrate to the same CCT value (even if he states he's evolved on that silly idea), or his idea about Obama. He isn't thinking clearly or scientifically, isn't interested in facts, has some presumably anti-NEC agenda. Don't feed the trolls!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 09:22:58 am by digitaldog »
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2015, 09:25:23 am »

So, stop spreading misinformation and be a little more intellectually honest.
Did you write that with a straight face?
Did you ask Solux to take down your misinformation about what CCT to calibrate a display for?
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2015, 01:42:36 pm »

Czornyj, The NEC support guy and I have gone over everything we could think of. The monitor doesn't respond to MultiProfiler; luminance doesn't change when you try to change it. Most of the time, switching between enabled and disabled calibrated mode doesn't cause SpectraView to recognize that the monitor is not in calibrated mode, but sometimes it does. I only use one interface at a time: either DVI-D or HDMI+USB. The issue is not how accurate the calibration is, but that the monitor somehow goes out of calibrated mode and SpectraView doesn't recognize that most of the time, but not always.
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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2015, 05:33:01 pm »

If the only thing in common is the video card, you should contact Nvidia or AMD and report the issue. It is likely to be a driver issue.
Make sure only one link is physically connected when testing and no other interface is connected to the monitor.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2015, 08:11:40 pm »

degrub, This happens with a DVI-D on a PC tower and with HDMI+USB on a laptop, so it's not the video card.
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W with SpectraView problems
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2015, 08:19:36 pm »

If the only thing in common is the video card, you should contact Nvidia or AMD and report the issue. It is likely to be a driver issue.
As you can now see, the issue is only caused by the NEC's display itself! We're lead to believe NEC is stumped and that the 'solution' to this problem can only be uncovered by asking the audience of LuLa and PhotoNet what a fix could be. Unless the fix is doing anything but blame the issue on NEC. As I pointed out It IS completely crazy.
Why Frans doesn't return the unit for a full refund (or if this is even some beat up used product) goes answered.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 08:21:16 pm by digitaldog »
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