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Robert Roaldi

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Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« on: July 22, 2015, 01:19:14 PM »

I have a question regarding importing DNG files into Aperture. I run Aperture 3.4 on Lion. My old iMac platform will not run anything newer than Lion. But Lion does not support Oly E-M10 raw files. So I thought I could convert the raw files to DNG and import those into Aperture instead.

When I first attempted this about a year ago, it did not work. It appeared as though Aperture would only import DNG files from cameras whose raw files were supported. This argued against DNG being a universal raw file, and that didnít seem right to me, and I assumed I was missing something. I did see a reference that the DNG converter at that time would only convert micro 4/3 raw files as linearized DNG, and Aperture did not like that. But these concepts were(are) muddled in my brain. To save time, I ended up buying Lightroom 5 and have been using that with the Oly raw files.

But after the recent discussion elsewhere on this forum, I am now curious about DNG conversion again. Is there really an issue with the Adobe DNG converter not working well with Oly raw files? Or was it just the converter version that I was using at that time?

Thank you.
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 02:36:40 PM »

I have a question regarding importing DNG files into Aperture. I run Aperture 3.4 on Lion. My old iMac platform will not run anything newer than Lion. But Lion does not support Oly E-M10 raw files. So I thought I could convert the raw files to DNG and import those into Aperture instead.

When I first attempted this about a year ago, it did not work. It appeared as though Aperture would only import DNG files from cameras whose raw files were supported. This argued against DNG being a universal raw file, and that didnít seem right to me, and I assumed I was missing something. I did see a reference that the DNG converter at that time would only convert micro 4/3 raw files as linearized DNG, and Aperture did not like that. But these concepts were(are) muddled in my brain. To save time, I ended up buying Lightroom 5 and have been using that with the Oly raw files.

But after the recent discussion elsewhere on this forum, I am now curious about DNG conversion again. Is there really an issue with the Adobe DNG converter not working well with Oly raw files? Or was it just the converter version that I was using at that time?

Thank you.


when camera manufacturer introduces some innovation to the market Adobe naturally can't follow soon with their proprietary (as in ownership) DNG standard spec. and in some cases there is a timeframe when their proprietary, closed source DNG Converter (or ACR/LR) does convert original raw files into linear DNG files (example - Panasonic introduced optics correction parameters to their raw files... it took many many many ... month for Adobe to deal with that - meanwhile the only raw to DNG conversion was to linear DNG)... but once fixed then Adobe DNG converter is working with the original raw files as good as LR/ACR would... there is no difference between using LR/ACR directly with the original raw file or (not lossy) DNG obtained from the original raw file using Adobe tools (if LR/ACR/DNG converter are of the same generation/same release - with the same errors that is)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 02:39:50 PM by AlterEgo »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 06:55:59 PM »

I downloaded v9.1 of DNG converter and converted a few Oly E-M10 orf files. I tried importing the dng files into Aperture but images were not viewable, unsupported image format. I had expected to see an option in the converter to convert to linear DNG/raw DNG (or whatever the choice is), but didn't see one. I must be doing something wrong, will revisit when I have more time.
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 07:43:35 PM »

I had expected to see an option in the converter to convert to linear DNG/raw DNG (or whatever the choice is), but didn't see one.

option is there : change preferences -> compatibility : custom (select it again if already custom) and you shall see
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 09:46:13 PM »

Quite right, a little buried and obscure but found it. But no luck. I generated dngs (using DNG 1.4 from the drop down) with linear option checked and unchecked. Either way, Aperture reported unsupported image format after import. Will play some more tomorrow evening, out of time today.  I can't be the first person to use the converter on ORF files so I'm obviously missing something.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 10:31:01 PM »

I came across this page https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203441, which says that the DNG converter always produces linearized output for Oly raw files. It seems definitive, but I find it odd that I have never seen this anywhere else. Must have been looking in the wrong places. I still feel as if I am missing something though.
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 01:52:45 AM »

I came across this page https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203441, which says that the DNG converter always produces linearized output for Oly raw files.

it is simply not true...
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 07:40:17 AM »

I don't know what to think anymore. All I know is that when I import my images into Aperture regardless of DNG converter settings, I get an unsupported image file notices. I may be buying a newer iMac soon and am tempted to try the newest version of Aperture to see if this behaviour persists. OTOH, since Apple is abandoning Aperture in the long run, I may not bother, not sure how much satisfying my curiosity matters. That is, I am presuming that this is an Aperture issue. Too bad, I liked it.

I'll try looking around the micro 4/3 site forums to see what they contain on the subject. I don't normally frequent them, but someone must have traveled down this path before me.

However, the whole thing strikes as something that should not be so obscure. I find it bizarre that we have to rely on folklore and word-of-mouth to find this information. These are well-known products and I would have thought that it would be easy to find info on whether/why what I am trying to do works or doesn't work.

I think it's a bit of cautionary tale about DNG though. Generally, DNG is thought of as a non-proprietary way to store raw data. I kind of like that idea a lot. But if we have to worry about exceptions, both with current and future software releases, it leaves me uneasy, in the sense that if I chose to convert my workflow to DNG, I would still be forced to store all my out-of-camera orf files somewhere jic of future compatibility problems with the DNG files.

Iím an amateur, nobody is paying me to maintain all this knowledge or all these backups. I want these products/services to be appliances, but they aren't , and I am sick and tired of it. This is not a fun part of the photography hobby. The state of the current art forces each of us to be systems engineers. I hope that DNG or something like it really does emerge as an industry standard, the way C-41 did.

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 08:18:42 AM »

Came across this informative site: http://dpbestflow.org/DNG
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Robert
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 09:09:36 AM »

I don't know what to think anymore.
may be your OSX does not have some recent updates bringing the recent cameras support ?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 09:22:49 AM »

Yes, that's true, but I knew that from the start. Since I'm stuck at Lion because of hardware, and Lion does not include support for Oly E-M10 raw files, I knew that Aperture would not process those raw files directly. That's why I investigated using DNG. I had hoped that converting those E-M10 raw files to DNG, as a universal raw format, would mean that I could process them in Aperture. But that does not appear to be possible.
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Re: Question about Aperture, Oly raw, and DNG
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2015, 03:51:46 PM »

I had much the same problem with DNG files from my Ricoh GR2-DXO Optics Pro couldn't recognize them. In inquired with support, and they said that DNGs are not generic, but specific to the camera, and because DXO has not yet support the GR2 (unlike the earlier GR), I would not be able to process the  with Optics Pro until they issues an update for that camera.
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