More Ks for less Ks

[fredjeang2]

- kinefinity 6k
super 35 CMOS 5760x3240
16 stops DR
100 fps at 4k
Cinema DNG raw
4:3 anamorphic mode
Price: less than 10.000

6k Footage to download for grading here: https://www.copy.com/s/t%3AmKG7ANtunTT2bIyP%3Bp%3A%252FKineMAX_2014_Bali_DNG.zip%3Boid%3A25




- Kinemini 4K
super 35 CMOS 4k
12 stops DR
100 fps at HD
compressed Cinema DNG
Price: 4000-5000



- AJA CION 4k
4k APS-C CMOS
Prores 4444 and 422
12 stops DR
Price: 5000




plus the Ursa...



That's a lot of Ks for less than 10.000...don't you think?

10 + 5 + 5 + 5 =? twenty five no?
what's the Price of a 6K Red?

Let's put it this way: 2 Acam Kinefinity cameras + 2 Bcam Kinemini are 30k
or 3 Ursa + 2 Ursa mini
or 6 Kinemini or Aja Cion


it makes think.

[fredjeang2]

James,

You know why (or in what sense) I think those cameras are worth the "Test and verify " Cooter stamp?

Precisely you posted exactly in the other hijacked thread the answer:
Isn't that interesting to have a unity into a set of camera? As you pointed, Shooting Red, Sony, Pana, Arri,
each one with it's own look, operation etc...

At the Price those high performance cine cameras are, they're so cheap that one can build 2A + 2B cams
of the same product and still save money left for a Brand new swimming pool.
I'm sure it makes you think also, even if I know that you got the ressources for Arri. But we're all sensitive to numbers.
Yes, I know the mantra, I say it to myself many times: "save money today on something cheaper and be sure the bill will be higher tomorrow".
It's often true. But not always because:

Now...how much was an Avid or a Resolve seat 10 years ago?
We all know what happened like by magic...
Suddenly what costed 30.000 is gifted almost for free, just like that?
We know the backstage don't we?

Imagine that you get 2 kinefinity plus 2 kinemini. Same sensor size, same Raw flavor, same mount, same Brand,
same workflow, same look, same lenses, same expresso.
And that, for less tan 30.000...
Let's get rid-off 2 stops DR marketing claim as you said, instead of 16, we got 14.

Well...not bad deal IMO.

Now, is the chinese Brand reliable enough? Big question. Sure many people will say no just being chinese.
I don't buy chinese, I'm very alergic to their poor quality. But...who knows?
How the camera performs in harsh condition? Snow, desert, or the stupid kind of climate we have now in Madrid.
This will be harshly criticize I think because it seriously threaten an established marketplace.

And...if the camera is good? hey...that changes all.

So yeah, test and verify first.
I can tell you that I'll still buy my Martinelli, but I beleive each one of those are worth a test.
Paying for quality is always a good rule. Being spoiled is another story.


PS: grammar help: bloody english: in what sense or in witch sense?

[Morgan_Moore]

The thing about all these cameras is that they are half cameras.
Sensor,
data capture device

A video camera is this..

ND filtration
OPLF
Sensor
Pre compression image amplifier
Image compressor
data capture device

Buying a half camera you are going down this road..

Adding proper (IR ND) expensive and slows you down on set
Risk of moiree
No high ISO, need to light everything
Huge data rates

Im sorry I think the FS7 presents the most Ks for the fewest Ks once you get in the field.

This is no surprise if you come from stills. Where (to me) the big guys, (Canikon) have basically eaten the little guys (phase/hassy) for providing image quality per $

Clearly the same thing will happen in video.

S

[fredjeang2]

You're absolutly right Morgan.
The sony is an incredible bang for the buck.

[fredjeang2]

http://www.assimilateinc.com/scratch-kinefinity

Scratch has a partnership with Kinefinity as they had with Red from the beginning.

[fredjeang2]

The thing about all these cameras is that they are half cameras.
Sensor,
data capture device

A video camera is this..

ND filtration
OPLF
Sensor
Pre compression image amplifier
Image compressor
data capture device

Buying a half camera you are going down this road..

Adding proper (IR ND) expensive and slows you down on set
Risk of moiree
No high ISO, need to light everything
Huge data rates

Im sorry I think the FS7 presents the most Ks for the fewest Ks once you get in the field.

This is no surprise if you come from stills. Where (to me) the big guys, (Canikon) have basically eaten the little guys (phase/hassy) for providing image quality per $

Clearly the same thing will happen in video.

S

Well, I must say that I'm more and more with Morgan's
Spirit.
I always found Morgan (in terms of camera's tastes) like
Too british conservative if I might say, you know, this
Over practical sense of the english collective mind, opposed
To my glamourous and unpractical french mentality?
But Morgan's right in many aspects.

I've been trying different cameras and rig set-ups ultimatly,
And I'm fed-up with those "half cameras".
Too much rig, too many cables, too much extra cost, extra
Weight, extra space.
Even with the BM, in the end what supposed to be a small
Camera ends into a heavy complicated device, that looks
Like an oscur machinery from a WW2 german experimental
Design. Not that easy anymore to operate, full of fragile cablery etc...

I rarely see myself using the raw dng in the end and a good Prores
444 is more than enough for CC that does not falls appart.
Even the 422 flavour works just fine in many situations.

Because whatever Raw format, the key point is to adquire
Real colorist knowledge, wich is long, complicated but
Worth in the end. Or hire a specialist if budget allows.
Learn the matrix, color science etc...
And we never color Raw anyway so...(fact that not s lot
Of people are really understanding. You might think you grade
raw but it never happens that way just that it occurs within
The software automatically without you noticying it. Raw is just operating at
Metadata levels like WB, ISOS etc...not in color decisions.)

Morgan puts generaly (at least in his posts) a lot of importance in simplicity,
Ergonomics and practicality over pure specs power and he is right IMO.

[Morgan_Moore]

To some extent it depends on your work.

When I direct I could be 'French' about it; but when I work for a director then.. well.. you gotta be British.

Directing my self .. many short accurate takes, every interview broken planned into 10s soundbites. I do video like stills!

Other directors..

20minute interviews, bla bla.

I did one recently we rolled for the whole of 'cooking and eating lunch' one handheld take maybe 45 mins.

Yes - some interesting stuff was said.. but seriously I pity the editor, also the cam op needs to be in focus A LOT because you don't know when the good thing is happening.

That is when it gets tough.. you need balance on the shoulder, you need a good monitor, you need good power, you need good audio, and you dont want to shoot 2TB because you have to download it before you are allowed to go home!

I shot my movie with a BMC and a soundie and a first to do ND - no problem.. but working alone a BMC is not the thing.

nothing really to do with pretty pictures.

S