5dsr vs hasselblad my first real world experience

[Hans Kruse]

Hi,

I have downloaded two raws from DPReview. On left their Pentax 645Z image on the right their Canon 5DsR image with the Otus 55/1.4 at f/5.6.

Little doubt in my view is sharper, that said the both have a lot of moiré.

The Pentax 645Z was used with the Pentax 90mm f/2.8 D FA 645 Macro ED, at $4,496.95 (at B&H) while the Canon used the Otus 55 at $3,990.00 (at B&H)

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

When I downloaded the 5DsR studio scene from dpreview I got the Canon 85 f/1.8 lens.It was downloaded from here http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/5
So where did you find this?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Little doubt in my view [      ] is sharper...

Oh, how cruel of you, Erik! Do not leave us hanging, do tell which one in your view is sharper.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Slobodan,

Otus on the Canon 5DsR is sharper, IMHO.BTW, it is the 85/1.4 not the 55/1.4. I will go back and fix my previous posts.

Best regards
Erik

Oh, how cruel of you, Erik! Do not leave us hanging, do tell which one in your view is sharper.

[BernardLanguillier]

Otus on the Canon 5DsR is sharper, IMHO.BTW, it is the 85/1.4 not the 55/1.4. I will go back and fix my previous posts.

Not surprised, I pray every day that the upcoming wide Otus is as good as the 85mm f1.4. That lens is such a feat in terms of technical perfection combined with a very sweet look.

Higher res bodies such as the 5Ds, or the D810, reveal the extent of the Otus line superiority compared to pretty much anything else.

A few samples here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/72157639077058796

Its like those cars making you feel at 150 kph on the highway that they could still go much much faster.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Plateau Light]

C1 is definitely awesome for the Canon and helps a lot to close the gap. The Phase people have a fine converter and I swear that ACR screws up my P40 and H3DII 50 files.
For me the MF advantage has been the glass and the 35-90 HC is the king of landscape zooms IMHO. I have found that 35mm zooms may be super sharp in the exact center but
rapidly falls off when leaving that zone. It looks like the Canon 24-70 mkII may be a good contender but I really wish that the manufacturers would stop focusing so much on more MP and concentrate on vastly improved optics.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9669965965/otus-readings-the-zeiss-85-f-1-4-otus-comparison

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

When I downloaded the 5DsR studio scene from dpreview I got the Canon 85 f/1.8 lens.It was downloaded from here http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/5
So where did you find this?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9669965965/otus-readings-the-zeiss-85-f-1-4-otus-comparison

FYI,

Just for those who are interested and want to try for themselves, Capture One (8.31) makes a relatively nice Raw conversion of the 1C3A5495.cr2 file (5DS R with OTUS 85mm at f/5.6) while using a linear tonecurve. Chromatic Aberration correction should be disabled, because it deteriorates the result, the lens is well corrected as it is.

If Capture One is used for Capture sharpening, the sharpening settings that come close to a proper baseline (for this lens at f/5.6, and a linear tonecurve without noise reduction) are probably:
Amount: 50 to 55
Radius: 0.6
Threshold: 0.1

With sharpening disabled in the output recipe, Photoshop with FocusMagic would do a good job at:
Amount: 50 or 75 (! it needs to be used with restraint, because a default of 100 is already too much for Capture sharpening, and 75 adds a very slight dark edge halo)
Blur width: 1

The anti-aliasing cancellation filter of the R model does allow for some false color artifacts and for some mazing artifacts to creep in, notably on the banknote, and the pen drawing slightly above it and a bit to the left, and the strand of hair. This might be a bit more obvious at f/4.5 of f/5.0 which I suspect are the optimum for this lens on this sensor at the dense pixel level.

Cheers,
Bart

[AreBee]

Bart,

Chromatic Aberration correction should be disabled, because it deteriorates the result, the lens is well corrected as it is.

Please can you describe to me the nature of the deterioration?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Please can you describe to me the nature of the deterioration?

Hi Rob,

Maybe it's just this image, but there are yellow and blue fringes added to otherwise sharp edges in the corners, as if the automatic CA detection gets confused by some of the image structures (maybe the aliasing threw it off?). I make it a habit to verify if the CA correction actually helps or not, and that caution paid off on this particular image, where the correction usually improves the image (mostly based on AA-filtered images).

Cheers,
Bart

[AreBee]

Bart,

I make it a habit to verify if the CA correction actually helps or not, and that caution paid off on this particular image...

Indeed. It never occurred to me to check if CA correction would be better toggled off instead of on. Live and learn.

Many thanks.

[RobertJ]

Not surprising 40 megapixel medium format beats the Canon

Not so fast.

The 5DSR with a Zeiss Otus, at optimum aperture, processed in Capture One is well ahead of a 40 MP back.

[orc73]

Thank you guys to appreciate my work to put it together. To be clear I did not call it a test(see on my post or website).

I really appreciate the input about the sharpening. I believe there can be done a lot.
If yes, it goes a bit to the same point as the skin color.

Brings me to the reason I bought the Hasselblad back then: sharpening and skin colors are just amazing out of the box and safe me a lot of time.
Both this points my just be software issues. However I developed the pics also with Canon's own DPP, which should be able to manage it, but just does not.

So at the end of the day Hasselblad just safes you time and headache, while the Canon might be easier to use and carry for a shooting, you will spend a lot more in post.

And I want to point out the fact that I REALLY REALLY would like to have my MF replaced with a Canon, so if really the gap can be made bit closer I would be very open to suggestions

[orc73]

certainly the Otus will deliver on the sharpness.However they make you loose a lot of advantages of a 35mm dslr, like weight, price and autofocus.
I don't know how they influence color, tones and transitions.

My Sigma Art 50mm is significantly sharper then the 135mm, I will updated my page on occasion as written.

As it comes to the Otus you will need to manual focus, which might be easy or not depending on what and how you photograph.
I did try to manual focus the sigma, and found the Canon MF confirmation not as good as the one from Nikon(they have arrow indications and also the dot is "better"). Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

In this context I have to say Hasselblad true focus beats Canon, I have a 99% keepers, which I can't tell for the Canon. Maybe I need to practice.

[Chris Livsey]

Maybe I need to practice.

Should you have to?

[orc73]

lol good question...should not be such a hard thing to nail focus.
I don't know what it is, that makes is less accurate then the Hasselblad, which seems to have stoneage technology.

[Chris Livsey]

lol good question...should not be such a hard thing to nail focus.

I was meaning the camera should not make you have to, no cast against your ability 
 
Hard to believe the H1 system is from 2002, no doubt firmware has tweaked it over time, mine is an early one being a Demo on the splash screen and nails focus reliably.

[orc73]

yes Chris I got you. The Camera should really do that. Photographing people always bring variables into play, so that's not like taking a product shot.
At the end I do photograph people, so it does not help me to make products shots at the best aperture and so on, it's the whole package that counts.

As for the sharpening I played with the radius, and it really does have high impact, also easy to overdo it.
Some of the details go better, then most details in the diamonds could don't show though no matter how high the radius.
It might do for many situations tough.

[landscapephoto]

I don't know what it is, that makes is less accurate then the Hasselblad, which seems to have stoneage technology.

This has always been my experience as well. The Hasselblad cameras have a relatively primitive and somewhat slow AF, compared to modern DSLRs. However, on pure accuracy on static subjects, the Hasselblad wins.

[Jens_Langen]

Hey Gandalf,
I'm using Media Pro as a stand alone app for DAM and it works great. This way you can keep using C1 Pro as your Raw processor.
Jens

[orc73]

Hi Jens
what does make you choose media pro over the c1 catalog?
You need a Dam in a big company?
Media Pro does store your raw files and renders them in c1 or how does it work?

best regards