Topic: Aperture and Printing (Read 6864 times)

ricwis · « **on:** February 24, 2006, 01:07:24 pm »

I've started to dig into Aperture, importing only a few images, and working my way through the application. So far, I am enjoying the learning process and think this application may just work for me. But, I have run into a major problem ...printing from Aperture. From what I was able to find on the Aperture forum at Apple, many are having the same problem.

My printer is a Kodak 1400. Users of other printers including injket are having the same problem as they are mentioned in the Apple forums.

The problem is I cannot print an 8x10 print on the 1400. Aperture demands and insists that there has to be at least a 1 inch border, and does not allow me to set a 0 border size. My 8x10 print is sized to a 6.5x8 print and nothing I set will change it. Since the Kodak paper is 8.5x14, Aperture scales the print to the 6.5 size to maintain the border along that edge. I should be able to print anyt size print I want up to the maximum 8.25x12 that the printer is designed to print.

Any other Aperture users run into this? To me, this is a show stopper if I cannot print the desired size print from the application.

Graeme Nattress · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2006, 03:13:00 pm »

I have exactly the same problem, and I filled in the Apple bug report form for Aperture.

Solution for the moment is print from Photoshop like I've always done....

Graeme

ricwis · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2006, 04:13:57 pm »

Thanks Graeme,
That is what I was thinking too. I suppose sending the photo to Photoshop as a Tiff and then printing is about the best work around. I would really prefer not to do that. I too sent a bug report to Apple.

I did look at the print from Aperture on the Kodak and although it was the wrong size, it was very nice. I compared it to a print from Photoshop and Camera Raw and other than a very slight difference in the black feathers of the bird, I see no difference in quality or color. No artifacts, blocking, or other issues I have read about on some forums.

I'm acutally enjoying learning to use this product.

Graeme Nattress · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2006, 10:08:48 pm »

No that I've turned off the awful colour proofing in Aperture, at least I'm not seeing the real nasties on screen any more. However, I don't think that Aperture's de-bayering or de-mosaicing is very good. This is the algorithm that turns a colour filter array image into RGB. I'm working on code for GPU based real time de-bayering of high-definition video images, and I'm getting quite attuned to what is good and not so good, and Aperture is on the very basic side, no doubt to get the speed out of the de-bayering process. AFAIK, Apple are not using the GPU for de-bayering though, only the image processing.

The test print I did from Aperture looked fine also, but as I get practically a 1:1 pixel for pixel print from my 20D images, it's going to be really hard to spot bayer pattern nasties. However, if I was to do a big crop or print on a larger printer, they'd start to be visible. I certainly see them at 1:1 magnification on the computer.

Graeme

ricwis · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2006, 09:28:08 am »

This is good info. I've done a little cropping on my test images but nothing too drastic yet. I'm still learning my way through a lot of it.

I've upgraded my video card to the X800XT since I knew Aperture was GPU intensive.

I need to try a print on my Canon S9000 inkjet at 13x19 and see what happens. This printer does not do borderless like the newer Canons. I use the Kodak for most of my printing so hope this bug gets addressed.
Rich

Graeme Nattress · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:23:44 pm »

I'm getting a new mac with the 4500 card, so it will be interesting to see how fast that runs. I'm using the X800 at the moment, and it's pretty darn good.

Graeme

ricwis · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2006, 06:34:12 pm »

MacWorld is reporting that Apple is using Aperture 1.1 at the PMA show and has said it will be available as a download in March. Looks like a lot of things are fixed, including printing. There are a lot of other good things that seem to be added or fixed as well.

Macworld report on Aperture 1,1

March is next week, so I hope it is eary March.

Graeme Nattress · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2006, 09:47:28 am »

Excellent. Apple are reacting in a positive way and look to be fixing the main issues I'd reported to them - poor demosaicing and highlight recovery. Also, the database speed issues look to have been addressed - also good.

I mean, I really like Aperture for it's cataloging, but I still want to do my image manipulation in Photoshop. I hope that with these new fixes I can use the Photoshop export as intended and not have to go through ACR unless I really want to.

Now if only Apple would open up Aperture to plugin developers (like myself).... :-)

Graeme

imcgraw · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2006, 11:15:57 am »

Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum having seen your thread on Aperture + Kodak 1400.

In general I'm having a lot of trouble getting on with the colour management in Aperture.

The vast majority of my shots taken with Camera settings on my 20D set to RAW + Adobe RGB.

I am importing direct from the CF card.

I am finding that my images never look/print (Kodak 1400) the same colour as they appear on the screen in Aperture. They loose a lot of their warmth and depth of colour especially in the reds.

I have tried the various combinations of export options from Aperture e.g. 'Same As Source' or 'Adobe RGB'.

The printer is a Kodak 1400. I started off loosing all detail in the darks - found this to be an issue with the export I was exporting to PSD with 'Same As Source' when I should have had 'Adobe RGB'. Now that I have this ok I am still finding a big difference in the overall color on screen vs printed. Everything on screen looks very nice, true to the original, but everthing on printer or exported to web looks like it's been 'bleached'.

I have the latest version of Kodak firmware + the latest firmware on the 20D.

Any pointers to the settings you guys are using would be most appreciated.

Thanks, Ian

London.

ricwis · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2006, 02:25:18 pm »

Hi Ian and welcome to the forums.

The first thing to look at would be monitor calibration. Has your monitor been calibrated with a hardware tool such as the Gretag Eye One 2 display or a similar product? If you do not have the hardware, Apple includes a software calibration utility that you could use and would be better than nothing. Having a calibrated monitor will give you a good reference point for color.

Another consideration is that Aperture will color manage so you must disable the printer color management. The Kodak driver does not have an option to turn off color management. What you may be seeing is double color conversion, one done in Aperture then a second done in the printer. To disable the printer management, you have to remove the .icc profiles the printer references. I am not at my computer, so am going from memory. Hopefully, Graeme will see this and can correct or add detail.

In the library folder, printers, Kodak there should be a Koday 1400 plugin. If you right click on the plugin file and select show package contents, you will see the icc profiles. Drag them to the desktop. What I did was create a new folder with a text file that contains the purpose of these files and where they came from and then drag the profiles to this folder and move it to documents. Once these profiles are removed from the directory, the printer will not manage color.

Hope this helps. I must say the color from the Kodak is as close as any of my printers to the screen.

imcgraw · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2006, 10:53:09 am »

Hi Rich,

Many thanks for the welcome.

No, I must admit I've not done any screen calibration of my own or tried removing the ICC profile from Aperture's path. I will definitely give this a go though and feedback.

Something else interesting - I have been exporting from Aperture as PSD. I open the image in Photoshop Elements and the image looks true to the original. However I make a ot of use of picture packages in Elements. If I execute 'picture package' on the image(s) the resulting image has the same bleached out look.

I'll try and get a screen grab of this and post it to demonstrate.

Best regards, Ian.

PowerBookG4, 1.67GHz PPC, 1GB SDRAM.

Quote

Hi Ian and welcome to the forums.

The first thing to look at would be monitor calibration. Has your monitor been calibrated with a hardware tool such as the Gretag Eye One 2 display or a similar product? If you do not have the hardware, Apple includes a software calibration utility that you could use and would be better than nothing. Having a calibrated monitor will give you a good reference point for color.

Another consideration is that Aperture will color manage so you must disable the printer color management. The Kodak driver does not have an option to turn off color management. What you may be seeing is double color conversion, one done in Aperture then a second done in the printer. To disable the printer management, you have to remove the .icc profiles the printer references. I am not at my computer, so am going from memory. Hopefully, Graeme will see this and can correct or add detail.

In the library folder, printers, Kodak there should be a Koday 1400 plugin. If you right click on the plugin file and select show package contents, you will see the icc profiles. Drag them to the desktop. What I did was create a new folder with a text file that contains the purpose of these files and where they came from and then drag the profiles to this folder and move it to documents. Once these profiles are removed from the directory, the printer will not manage color.

Hope this helps. I must say the color from the Kodak is as close as any of my printers to the screen.
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imcgraw · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2006, 11:05:09 am »

Screen grabs attached.

Sample1 is the image exported from Aperture opened in Photoshop Elements.
Sample2 is the same image after picture package has been run on it.

This is interesting because it's virtually the same thing that happens when I print from Aperture or Photoshop i.e. this is the colour cast on my prints.

ricwis · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2006, 10:52:23 pm »

There is quite a difference in the sample photos. I do not have Photoshop Elements so I do not know what the picture package would do. Something is changing things for sure.

Without knowing Elements, I am not sure if this will work. When you select print, is there an option to choose color management? If there is, try selecting "printer color management". This should prevent the double profiling of the print. I would also look at the color section in the driver of the printer and make sure the sliders are all in the center and one of them is not off.

Not only does there seem to be a cast, but there seems to be much less color saturation too. My guess is something in the application is doing this.

imcgraw · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2006, 09:04:53 am »

I basically use Picture Package to print two 8x6's on one sheet of Kodak 8x14 i.e. it lets me do multiple (different) images on to one sheet. Mainly because (as far as I know) Aperture only supports multiple identical images - maybe this will change in 1.1.0

It is under File > Automate in CS (Or under File->Print Layouts in Elements). I currently have the colour management turned off in Elements to try and stop this happening, to no avail.

I did read somewhere though that Picture Package only understands Grayscale, RGB, CYMK, and Lab profiles. I guess therefore these will result in a color mismatch from the embedded Adobe RGB profile.

I've still not got round to trying your suggestion of removing the print profile, soon hopefully.

Thanks, Ian.

imcgraw · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2006, 06:08:38 pm »

Dear Rich,

Just an update on this thread to let you know just how successful removing the icc profiles for the Kodak 1400 has been.

Seems all the apps I print from, including Aperture, now print just as you described in your orginal post. I no longer suffer from any colour casts or degredation. I went back to the original JPG I made up to test the printer which has a large yellow square added to it (as suggested by Kodak), I printed this out again after icc removal and compared this print with my original. The colour change in the yellow square is remarkable.

Any way many thanks again for your help. For anyone else reading this wondering how on earth to get your 1400 to print nice colours from Aperture, Photoshop etc etc then just remove you icc profiles from /Library/Printers/Kodak/1400/1400PM.plugin/Contents/Resources on the MAC.

BTW my original tests were done using Print Layout / Print Package in Photoshop Elements 2.0 - I compated print package in Elements with CS2 - there seems to be a big change in the colour using both these applications - Elements colour looks bleached.

Best regards,

Ian.

Author Topic: Aperture and Printing (Read 6864 times)