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Author Topic: The premature death of Leica  (Read 37313 times)

Iluvmycam

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pluton

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 05:02:31 am »

There was a story on the intergoogle(can't find it since, naturally) at the time that Nikon came out with their first 24x36 DSLR...the D3(2007).  The story went that Nikon was prototyping a 24x36 rangefinder cam....a modern day, digital S2.  The head man at Leica, so the story goes, flew to Japan to beg---successfully, as it turned out---Nikon not to make the digital rangefinder.  It sounded possibly credible to me at the time, but in any case it had an element of wish-fulfillment:  That a company that wasn't Leica, with the know-how to make an optical rangefinder digital camera, could easily do it, and offer the camera along with a small line of basic, decent-quality lenses for a reasonable price($2500-$3000 for a body, maybe, and $400-$1000 per lens?), and wipe Leica away.
We can always dream!
Oh, and the camera would be reliable, relatively defect-free, and with state-of-the-art imaging performance.
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Jimbo57

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 03:39:19 am »

Leica is safe.

Just ask yourself how many customers buy a Leica because they want a top quality piece of photographic engineering (which Leica cameras are) and how many buy one because it is the photographic equivalent of the fashion "designer label"?

There will undoubtedly be a few of the former but many, many more of the latter. No Sony, Fuji or Nikon will ever carry the snob-appeal of Leicas and Hasselblads.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 05:10:33 am »

...and wipe Leica away.
We can always dream!

I hope you didn't mean that a world without Leica would be a better one?

I used again their 180mm f2.8 APO R yesterday and I am for one very happy they came up with that lens! And I hope they keep designing wonderful lenses and different cameras, be it at a price I can't really afford.



This is a 900 mega pixel stitch btw. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Herbc

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2015, 10:08:35 am »

Great shot-which camera?  As far as Leica being gone, they are in their niche and won't be dislodged from
it.
They are not in the same game as Nikon Canon and now Sony.  Leica is a small company, and I don't see any urge for them to get into the Canikony game.
Arca, and for that matter, Alpa are still around, to name a few other niche makers.
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scooby70

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 10:11:53 am »

Agreed. Leica make the finest lenses it's been my pleasure to use.

Perhaps you'd be more at home on dpreview?

Maybe you are just too quick to assume the worst in people?

The way I read it was that pluton was dreaming of a reasonably priced Nikon RF and lenses rather than the end of Leica.
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Telecaster

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 03:33:28 pm »

Given that Leica plies its trade in the luxury goods market, any "story on the intergoogle" about it fearing Nikon competition (which wouldn't actually be competition at all) is likely a fantasy. After all, isn't obliterating alternatives to one's currently favored brand/product every fanboy's wet dream?

-Dave-
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DanLehman

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2015, 04:33:44 pm »

Just ask yourself how many customers buy a Leica because they want a top quality piece of photographic engineering (which Leica cameras are) and how many buy one because it is the photographic equivalent of the fashion "designer label"?
This test might work for many of the cameras,
but it breaks down when put to those buying the
"re-branded" Panasonics,
where all manner of seemingly vacuous rationalizations
materialize ("1st-choice lenses", "looks better", "higher resale", <pixie dust>),
along with then offered (often redundant) LR software.

And then those special editions --Titanium, ... .

 ;)
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JV

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2015, 06:11:43 pm »

Just ask yourself how many customers buy a Leica because they want a top quality piece of photographic engineering (which Leica cameras are) and how many buy one because it is the photographic equivalent of the fashion "designer label"?

There will undoubtedly be a few of the former but many, many more of the latter. No Sony, Fuji or Nikon will ever carry the snob-appeal of Leicas and Hasselblads.

Any more stereotypes you would like to share with us?
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Iluvmycam

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 06:29:20 pm »

I wrote the Leica article on the road and didn't have time to finish it. I updated the post today when I got home.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 09:36:56 pm »

Great shot-which camera? 

Thanks. It is not a Leica, so I won't go more in details to avoid taking the thread in a wrong direction. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Jimbo57

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2015, 06:33:06 am »

Any more stereotypes you would like to share with us?

I am sure that there are many other stereotypes that would fit somewhere within the cadre of Leica purchasers but I think that the two I gave are those most apposite to the current discussion.

However, if you disagree with my conclusion that "Leica is safe", then perhaps you would like to describe the alternative stereotypes that would support your thesis.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2015, 11:59:22 am »

Leica is safe.

Just ask yourself how many customers buy a Leica because they want a top quality piece of photographic engineering (which Leica cameras are) and how many buy one because it is the photographic equivalent of the fashion "designer label"?

There will undoubtedly be a few of the former but many, many more of the latter. No Sony, Fuji or Nikon will ever carry the snob-appeal of Leicas and Hasselblads.

I would venture and say that today Leicas are not (anymore) the top quality piece of photographic engineering they used to be... they lag behind in several technological specs and breakthroughs. Which is normal, as technological giants like Canon, Sony, and Panasonic, could make the transition to digital in an easy way.

Funny enough, people I see on the street shooting with Leicas are real photographers, not snobs. Just because a few fashionistas or movie stars or whatever show up with a Leica, it does not mean that everybody is like them...

Me, I bought a X Typ 113 because: robust build, excellent lens, good ergonomics, easy to operate in Aperture priority mode, AF fast enough, operation fast enough. Should have an integral EVF though, something they corrected in the Q...

Telecaster

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2015, 05:32:27 pm »

Funny enough, people I see on the street shooting with Leicas are real photographers, not snobs. Just because a few fashionistas or movie stars or whatever show up with a Leica, it does not mean that everybody is like them...

I recently took my black M8.2 & Zeiss 35/2 lens with me on a short trip. Took lotsa photos in public places…no-one paid me any particular attention, which is as it should be. This jibes with other experiences over the past ~16 months: the general public, especially the under-40 segment, don't much know from Leica…and probably don't much care either. It seems to be only a brand-conscious subset of "serious" camera owners who take notice (and, sometimes, offense).

-Dave-
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dchew

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2015, 07:30:46 pm »

Just ask yourself how many customers buy a Leica because they want a top quality piece of photographic engineering (which Leica cameras are) and how many buy one because it is the photographic equivalent of the fashion "designer label"?

There will undoubtedly be a few of the former but many, many more of the latter.

I will follow this up with another stereotype: people who believe that have never shot with a Leica for more than a few frames.

Gee wiz, in order for a designer label to work as a fashion statement, it kinda has to be recognized. The vast majority of people on this big green/blue ball have no idea what a Leica looks like or what it is. Not to mention my Monochrom doesn't say Leica anywhere that is visible. Like Dave said above, nobody notices me shooting. I was watching a show in Nashville two weeks ago, shooting away at my table. There was another guy shooting with a Canon DSLR and a 70-200 f/2.8. People saw him, watched him and talked to him about his camera. I slithered away in silence.

Who has the fashion statement?

Dave
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JeanMichel

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2015, 09:21:57 pm »

I will follow this up with another stereotype: people who believe that have never shot with a Leica for more than a few frames.

Gee wiz, in order for a designer label to work as a fashion statement, it kinda has to be recognized. The vast majority of people on this big green/blue ball have no idea what a Leica looks like or what it is. Not to mention my Monochrom doesn't say Leica anywhere that is visible. Like Dave said above, nobody notices me shooting. I was watching a show in Nashville two weeks ago, shooting away at my table. There was another guy shooting with a Canon DSLR and a 70-200 f/2.8. People saw him, watched him and talked to him about his camera. I slithered away in silence.

Who has the fashion statement?


Dave


Similar situations with me. On occasion someone will ask me if it is hard to find film for sich an old camera (m9). Well, it is kind of old as I usually have my 35 Summicron (with googles) from 1962 mounted on it. I do find it fun to show interested people that my lenses are Canadian. However, the reason that Irefer to work with my Leica's is that I am comfortable doing so. I do work with a 5d2 but it is so much more of a honking big -- but excellent -- tool that gets a lot more attention.
Jean-Michel
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 12:58:59 pm by JeanMichel »
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JohnBrew

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2015, 07:32:01 am »

I recently spent 10 days shooting in Venice with two M cameras. Huge DSLRs were ubiquitous and got all the attention but I'm delighted to say my Leicas didn't get so much as a second glance.
Same experience here. I've shot all over the place with M Leica's for going on fifteen years now. Back in the film days I would encounter people who knew the camera. In this day and age - not a second glance or comment. Last month I was in a retail store and had a Leica hanging on my side and the young salesman asked "is that a real camera that takes pictures?" Seriously, dude...

David Cordner

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2015, 08:52:02 am »

These Leica's are all good and well, but I still can't make a call on my M6. Very disapointing  ;)

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Robert Falconer

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2015, 08:26:41 pm »

I agree, Leica is safe … for the time being. And cameras like the Q [which almost certainly was designed in collaboration with Panasonic], may portend a change of direction for the company, or at the very least an attempt at a serious new branch in direction; one many would welcome given the positive reception the Q is getting. Niggles aside, the Q is almost exactly what a fully modern Leica should be, IMHO. Do more of this, Leica.

As to the rest, yes, Leica missed entirely the importance of the SLR by the late 1960s, and the reflex's desirability in the field gave it a serious leg up over the rangefinder, particularly when coupled with the excellent system support Nikon was building out around the F. That's where the tide really turned.

By the mid 1970s, the arrival of electronic control systems in cameras further tipped the scales to the Japanese manufacturers, because electronics know-how is directly in their wheelhouse. This trend simply increased exponentially into the world we live today, where the capture medium itself is now electronic.

Along the way that's been a tough place for a master of mechanical engineering to find itself. Partnerships with Minolta [and now Panasonic] notwithstanding, there's no question that Leica has played to the luxury / fashion set to raise revenues [why shouldn't they?], by touting "old-world" mechanical craftsmanship combined with rare earth elements and collectible editions. Not sure that's a strategy for long term success in the current photographic climate, however.

Through all of this, however, Leica's lenses have remained the single highest quality lineup on the planet. There's no denying that.

And to end where I began: Leica, put your engineering gears in overdrive and let's see an interchangeable lens version of the Q with one or two new state-of-the-art wrinkles, and with four or five good optics matched to it at a [relatively] reasonable price point. That would sell like hotcakes, IMO.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 08:31:05 pm by Robert Falconer »
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slothead

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Re: The premature death of Leica
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2015, 12:08:57 pm »

I know absolutely nothing about Leica aside from the reputation of their glass.  In looking for technical details on their website I see that the M only has a 24MP "sensor" (what I would refer to as the 'detector').  Does anyone know if Leica has a detector manufactory, or do they buy them from someone else to a Leica spec?  24MP is a very common size these days for both full size (35mm) and APS-C.  As I recall Sony has made a lot of Nikon's sensors/detectors, I have no idea about Canon or others.
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