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Author Topic: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?  (Read 49961 times)

dchew

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2015, 07:03:14 am »

I don't think anyone knows yet. But certainly many of us (me included) are hoping for that. Given the reported sensor design I think we can say it won't be worse. A lot of the analysis in regards to the a7r was around the cover glass, which was thicker than the M cameras. I have not heard any discussions about the glass thickness of the a7rII sensor, just that the design has shallower wells. That may mean color cast and vignetting will be better but not necessarily corner sharpness. I don't know...

Dave
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2015, 07:22:08 am »

Hi,

Highly unlikely that the thickness of the cover glass is changed, it is around 2 mm on most modern cameras with 4/3 (4mm) and Leica (0.5 mm) being the exception.

Making the cover glass thinner is not beneficial for Sony. Their lenses are intended for that thickness of cover glass. There is a company replacing the cover glass on Sony with a thinner variant. That still works with Sony/DSLR lenses.

Backside Illumination (BSI) may help with crosstalk.

The reason that Leica lenses have issue with 2 mm cover glass is the beam angle. Modern lenses have moderate beam angles as they are intended for digital sensors.

Best regards
Erik

I don't think anyone knows yet. But certainly many of us (me included) are hoping for that. Given the reported sensor design I think we can say it won't be worse. A lot of the analysis in regards to the a7r was around the cover glass, which was thicker than the M cameras. I have not heard any discussions about the glass thickness of the a7rII sensor, just that the design has shallower wells. That may mean color cast and vignetting will be better but not necessarily corner sharpness. I don't know...

Dave
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Erik Kaffehr
 

eronald

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2015, 10:01:31 am »

From the press release:

"The impressive video credentials of Sony’s new α7R II camera include the ability to record movies in 4K quality (QFHD 3840x2160) in either Super 35mm crop mode or full-frame mode.

In Super 35mm mode, the camera collects a wealth of information from approximately 1.8x as many pixels as 4K by using full pixel readout without pixel binning and oversamples the information to produce 4K movies with minimal moire and ‘jaggies’."

Yes, yes, postfacto explanatory material. The tech equivalent of "we shot the prisoner because he was attempting to escape".
I'd prefer it if just once they said "there were these parameters that were easiest to do, and so we tried them first, stumbled around a bit, came under deadline pressure, and the settings we kept are those that happened to work well enough".

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 08:39:19 am by eronald »
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Guillermo Luijk

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High ISO performance
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2015, 03:11:12 pm »

A RAW file at ISO6400 has appeared:
https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/12468551e4995d4f8e062908d3735f7920150707055639/e6a691




100% crop:



The capture seems to be about 1 stop underexposed, so it can be considered a ISO12800 RAW file in terms of SNR.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 03:14:23 pm by Guillermo Luijk »
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pegelli

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2015, 03:40:41 pm »

Thanks for posting Guillermo.

Which raw converter did you use and was there any denoise dialed into this conversion you show here?
I tried importing in Lightroom (6.1) as well as converting to dng with version 9.1 from Adobe but neither of them worked.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2015, 03:51:53 pm »

I used DCRAW. Unlike most commercial RAW developers DCRAW applies no noise reduction, that is why it produces apparently noisier images than commercial software. The noise displayed is the AHD interpretated from the source noise found in the RAW samples.

Regards

NancyP

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2015, 04:31:15 pm »

I am still anxiously awaiting a comprehensive review of this sensor and body....
There is no "universal" anything.
In theory, this sounds like a fine camera for current Canon users (shooting non-"action"subjects) and for collectors of old and new manual focus lenses to consider. I resemble that group of users, so I am very interested, but biding my time until the reviews come out. Is the A7R shutter shock really gone? Could IBIS effectively handle 1:2 magnification with a 125mm macro lens? (dream on) Or 135mm at "portrait" distances? And then, after the reviews, does the camera/adapter/lens feel comfortable to my hands?
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2015, 04:40:13 pm »

Hi,

I have one order so I hope I get it in August in time for a trip to France and another to the Dolomites. I am glad to share any experience.

Feel in the hands should be similar to the A7II.

Best regards
Erik
I am still anxiously awaiting a comprehensive review of this sensor and body....
There is no "universal" anything.
In theory, this sounds like a fine camera for current Canon users (shooting non-"action"subjects) and for collectors of old and new manual focus lenses to consider. I resemble that group of users, so I am very interested, but biding my time until the reviews come out. Is the A7R shutter shock really gone? Could IBIS effectively handle 1:2 magnification with a 125mm macro lens? (dream on) Or 135mm at "portrait" distances? And then, after the reviews, does the camera/adapter/lens feel comfortable to my hands?
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Erik Kaffehr
 

MatthewCromer

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2015, 04:52:12 pm »

I am still anxiously awaiting a comprehensive review of this sensor and body....
There is no "universal" anything.
In theory, this sounds like a fine camera for current Canon users (shooting non-"action"subjects) and for collectors of old and new manual focus lenses to consider. I resemble that group of users, so I am very interested, but biding my time until the reviews come out. Is the A7R shutter shock really gone? Could IBIS effectively handle 1:2 magnification with a 125mm macro lens? (dream on) Or 135mm at "portrait" distances? And then, after the reviews, does the camera/adapter/lens feel comfortable to my hands?

First, the shutter itself is said to be much better dampened so even in fully-mechanical shutter mode, there should be a big improvement.

Second, there is EFCS which the A7R does not have, which by itself removes 95% of shutter shock by removing the first curtain shutter movement before exposure begins. This also reduces shutter lag drastically (making it faster than any dSLR using its OVF).

Lastly, there is a fully-electronic mode which does not use the mechanical shutter AT ALL.

So, yes, I'd say the shutter shock is taken care of :)

Your other questions will depend on the user, subject, distance to subject and individual standards. You'll probably have to try it out yourself to find out those answers.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: High ISO performance
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2015, 06:42:31 pm »

A RAW file at ISO6400 has appeared:

The capture seems to be about 1 stop underexposed, so it can be considered a ISO12800 RAW file in terms of SNR.

Thanks Guillermo.

This performance seems very impressive when taking into account the resolution.

Cheers,
Bernard

barryfitzgerald

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2015, 09:56:05 pm »

I would wait for more detailed reviews phase detect off the sensor can be a bit ropey in lower light levels. No doubt the camera has some appeal though (when the price comes down)

I keep wondering why Sony are making E mount lenses though it would seem a fairly unwise investment they are not priced well some are not as fast as they should be, the ones that are faster are horrible price wise and the flash system lags behind A mount let along other makers.

Until Sony really nail it down I'd be cautious. IBIS is useful I can see some Canon users going for the body I would be doubtful if many invest in the system
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AlterEgo

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2015, 09:31:03 am »

and the flash system lags behind A mount

how does flash system lags behind "A mount" exactly ?

I for example using both old minolta shoe TTL flashes and new Sony style shoe TTL flashes together and they work, including optical remote TTL between what is mounted on camera and remote flashes ? granted you need an adapter to mount old flashes on camera with a new mount... but otherwise what is lagging ?

as for other systems - C&N do enjoy broader support based on their historical marketshare, so no wonder you have more 3rd parties supporting their TTL systems, that's not because A-mount or E-mount bodies - that's because Sony share not yet as big as C&N...
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2015, 06:22:44 pm »

how does flash system lags behind "A mount" exactly ?

I for example using both old minolta shoe TTL flashes and new Sony style shoe TTL flashes together and they work, including optical remote TTL between what is mounted on camera and remote flashes ? granted you need an adapter to mount old flashes on camera with a new mount... but otherwise what is lagging ?

as for other systems - C&N do enjoy broader support based on their historical marketshare, so no wonder you have more 3rd parties supporting their TTL systems, that's not because A-mount or E-mount bodies - that's because Sony share not yet as big as C&N...

In a word "built in flash" or lack of and the ones that do have it can't control off camera flashes. I am quite surprised that makers have not built radio flash control into the bodies but I suspect they want to make more money with add on items.

The other problem is balance a dedicated decent power flash is unbalanced with the E mount bodies even gripped it's not ideal though some might get used to it.
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peterottaway

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2015, 09:17:12 pm »

The only A mount Sony with built in flash I have is the A77 ( can't remember using it), although perhaps a couple of early 1990 film cameras may have had flash. With the cameras on hand  neither the Minolta film 7or Sony A850  have built in flash. Neither did the Olympus OM-2, various Contax or Nikon film cameras.

And who takes a compact camera to get some family snaps these days ?

I do own a modest flash system of 2 F58 flash guns and a couple of RX 2 flash heads for the occasional specialist shot but that's it.My needs are not your needs as the last wedding I had a hand in shooting was my sisters - my niece will be 25 in November and my nephew will be 23 in March next year.
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2015, 09:35:34 pm »

The only A mount Sony with built in flash I have is the A77 ( can't remember using it), although perhaps a couple of early 1990 film cameras may have had flash. With the cameras on hand  neither the Minolta film 7or Sony A850  have built in flash. Neither did the Olympus OM-2, various Contax or Nikon film cameras.

And who takes a compact camera to get some family snaps these days ?

I do own a modest flash system of 2 F58 flash guns and a couple of RX 2 flash heads for the occasional specialist shot but that's it.My needs are not your needs as the last wedding I had a hand in shooting was my sisters - my niece will be 25 in November and my nephew will be 23 in March next year.

The Minolta 9 and 7's have a built in flash I own 2 7's myself both are capable of wireless flash and ratio flash controlled directly by the on-board unit, in fact Sony complicated the flash a bit by fragmenting the system entry bodies were unable to do ratio flash or use a dedicated flash as a controller even if the gun supported it.

Minolta were way ahead of everyone at that time HSS, wireless flash and ratio flash, Sony did not take the ball and run with it, Nikon did though (but not on entry bodies) and to a degree Canon. It doesn't bother me much I have flashes that can act as controllers, but it is useful IMO to have a built in flash.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2015, 08:31:42 am »

Hey Canon!

Day Two with the Sony A7RII..so far. WOW! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

"Here is a shot with the Canon 50 1.2 EF lens at 1.2. What is really incredible? Myself and all here agree, this lens focuses faster on the A7RII than it does on the Canon 5D series. Faster and more accurate."

Regards

Otto Phocus

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Re: Is the Sony A7R II the first "universal body"?
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2015, 09:17:58 am »

The reason I am interested in EVFs is that there is only so much you can do with and OVF and we are just starting to develop capabilities of EVF.  I can't imagine what the future will hold for EVFs.  I am pretty sure they will only get better and more capable.
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