Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots  (Read 30295 times)

sniper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2015, 05:27:21 pm »

Same here, Wayne, but should one just accept them without questioning their merit? The built in tools are a lot more effective than some would have you believe.

No, one should test the different methods for themself and make a decision based on the results of what suits their images and workflow best.
Regards Wayne
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2015, 05:56:12 pm »

What I don't think works for many people is switching into and out of AutoSync - use it all the time, or completely avoid it.
Or consciously switch it on when you need it for multiple images, but make it a habit in your workflow to immediately switch it off when done. There's many ways for many people.
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2015, 06:31:04 pm »

Or consciously switch it on when you need it for multiple images, but make it a habit in your workflow to immediately switch it off when done.

I agree - if you really can make it a habit. But what trips up lots of people is that they do forget, so that's why I generally recommend staying with single image mode + Sync, or staying entirely in AutoSync.
Logged

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2015, 07:58:27 pm »

How exactly am I suggesting there aren't different needs? You complain enough about others not reading what you write....
I'd already said that not using Autosync was easier for me and you still tried to push the use of the tool again, which you'd incorrectly claimed was the quickest way to work. Which seems to indicate a one size fits all mentality re this tool, despite that for some jobs I have found that it isn't the quickest way.
It's useful sometimes and other time it isn't, I use it as and when. Though if you forget to turn AS off, it's a real pain. The AS sync being turned on should make the sync button red, to reduce the chances of that happening.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

smahn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 284
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2015, 12:29:44 am »

The AS sync being turned on should make the sync button red, to reduce the chances of that happening.


Yes, or green (or purple or whatever). Good suggestion.
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2015, 03:09:04 am »

I'd already said that not using Autosync was easier for me and you still tried to push the use of the tool again, which you'd incorrectly claimed was the quickest way to work. Which seems to indicate a one size fits all mentality re this tool, despite that for some jobs I have found that it isn't the quickest way.
It's useful sometimes and other time it isn't, I use it as and when. Though if you forget to turn AS off, it's a real pain. The AS sync being turned on should make the sync button red, to reduce the chances of that happening.

Some things are objective, and AutoSync is the measurably fastest way to work - it simply requires fewer clicks. Of course, it's not quickest in everyone's hands because you do have to be constantly aware which pictures are currently selected. Not everyone can / wants / needs to concentrate that hard, and why should they?

Other remedies that have been suggested are that the on screen bezel should remind you "spot (other other adj) applied to x images", and improving Undo so you can select x images and take them all back y history steps. There was a ScrewAutoSync plugin that did the latter.
Logged

SanderKikkert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
    • flickr
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2015, 04:27:48 am »

Well, watching this thread unfold is 'fun'  :(

Thanks Bret for pointing out what seems a good way to recognize dustspots ! Much appreciated.

It's also refreshing to know which site I wouldn't ever need to navigate to if I needed a 'solution' to a LR problem  ;)

Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2015, 05:04:14 am »

Thanks Bret for pointing out what seems a good way to recognize dustspots ! Much appreciated.

It's also refreshing to know which site I wouldn't ever need to navigate to if I needed a 'solution' to a LR problem  ;)

Your loss. Remember, I've consistently attacked the method, not the person, but maybe you can't handle someone saying "the king has no clothes"? Because if you use the built-in spotting tools properly, the dehaze method is really of negligible value.
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2015, 05:29:38 am »

Your loss.
Well said, but I think that's true for everybody who dismisses some of the methods presented in this thread, whether it's "A", 100 dehaze or 200 clarity. None of these methods is perfect, so having a range of tools should be more valuable I think.
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

sniper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2015, 05:43:39 am »

For me autosync in LR stays firmly on, it suits the type of images I work with and my workflow, but I can see that for some it wouldn't work at all well. 
Regards Wayne
Logged

SanderKikkert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
    • flickr
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2015, 05:57:42 am »

Your loss. Remember, I've consistently attacked the method, not the person, but maybe you can't handle someone saying "the king has no clothes"? Because if you use the built-in spotting tools properly, the dehaze method is really of negligible value.

Well John, I think not, I have actually compared the methods myself after reading this thread and have come to the conclusion that it works a treat for me for the images I tried it on, tried the 'official' method as well of course.  So not saying it works better in all cases but it seems a welcome addition. (there you go Pegelli, I'm not dismissing anything here  ;) )
Meticulously examining an alternative method suggested and pointing out possible throwbacks is one thing, but trying to burn it down to the ground using a huge number of posts, dismissing given examples and filling up this thread with loadsa "I am right and you are all wrong " is another. I came back to the thread to see if there was more news, information or suggestions and I find this...

BTW I haven't accused you of attacking the person, it's the way you attack the method that I dislike. Can't get my head around why you would spent so much posts basically screaming of the top of your lungs that what Bret suggested is 100% wrong. I apologize for the fact that couldn't get over that, leave it be etc. etc. and instead did make a remark that is in the end personal.

Be that as it may I wish you personally all the best in getting on with your site and business, pretty sure many people will enjoy that and benefit from it, just not me likely.

byebye, Sander
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2015, 06:14:47 am »

(there you go Pegelli, I'm not dismissing anything here  ;) )
I wasn't thinking of you Sander, it was more of a "reflective" comment.
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

SanderKikkert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
    • flickr
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2015, 06:22:37 am »

I wasn't thinking of you Sander, it was more of a "reflective" comment.

Ah I see Pieter, perhaps I wás subconsciously feeling guilty of dismissing stuff and it was "fitting the shoe" that made me react  ;D

It's too darn hot to think here in the Netherlands right now. Suppose a meditative lunchbreak would be best  :D

Best Regards, Sander
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2015, 06:27:38 am »

It's too darn hot to think here in the Netherlands right now. Suppose a meditative lunchbreak would be best  :D
Same here in Belgium, > 30 degrees C, only dust spots I'm seeing at the moment is probably black snow  ;D
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2015, 06:57:43 am »

Well John, I think not, I have actually compared the methods myself after reading this thread and have come to the conclusion that it works a treat for me for the images I tried it on, tried the 'official' method as well of course.  So not saying it works better in all cases but it seems a welcome addition. (there you go Pegelli, I'm not dismissing anything here  ;) )
Meticulously examining an alternative method suggested and pointing out possible throwbacks is one thing, but trying to burn it down to the ground using a huge number of posts, dismissing given examples and filling up this thread with loadsa "I am right and you are all wrong " is another. I came back to the thread to see if there was more news, information or suggestions and I find this...

BTW I haven't accused you of attacking the person, it's the way you attack the method that I dislike. Can't get my head around why you would spent so much posts basically screaming of the top of your lungs that what Bret suggested is 100% wrong. I apologize for the fact that couldn't get over that, leave it be etc. etc. and instead did make a remark that is in the end personal.

Be that as it may I wish you personally all the best in getting on with your site and business, pretty sure many people will enjoy that and benefit from it, just not me likely.

byebye, Sander


I think that's fair-enough, as you've at least tested for yourself, though I'll point out that I have not said Brett is 100% wrong but instead that I wouldn't recommend spending much time on the dehaze method as it is based on not using the built-in dust spotting tools fully. As for "screaming at the top of your lungs", I've responded calmly with straight facts and detail about how to get the most out of the built-in dust spotting tools. Number of posts - when someone responds and quotes you, should you not reply? So that's "I am right and you are wrong", screaming?

As a more general observation, delivered calmly as ever, in Photoshop but also in Lightroom there is always an attraction to methods that seem counter-intuitive and clever. We all - hope that's not too sweeping - experience this at times, but just because you're clicking more or doing something clever doesn't really make the magic bullet or voodoo method any better than using the built in features fully. For example, ask Andrew what he thinks of some of the Lab techniques that are advocated for Photoshop, or in Lightroom I'd point to using the HSL Saturation/Luminance sliders to do B&W. That idea stretches back to Martin Evening and I separately advocating it as a workaround for an Lr 1.0 noise reduction bug, fixed long ago, but you still see recommendations to do B&W that way. It produces no difference in quality, requires more clicks, and you sacrifice how filters and smart collections can quickly track down B&W versions. Objectively it is wrong. But when anyone screams "king's new clothes", isn't the general defence always "it works for me", "different strokes for different folks"....

John

PS Some examples, and a hot tip
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 07:59:37 am by john beardsworth »
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2015, 09:20:04 am »

Because if you use the built-in spotting tools properly, the dehaze method is really of negligible value.
Some of us who've tried both options disagree. The issue is the built-in spotting tool overlay isn't as effective as showing actual dust and spots that need attention than Dehaze and it's a bit faster. The built in overlay isn't as effective visually with it's high contrast B&W overlay than Dehaze, as simple as that. Adobe should consider changing the overlay appearance OR better, provide more than one. One poster already indicated an issue with the B&W overlay I see too; it shows areas that are not necessary to edit where the Dehaze doesn't suffer this, it shows us more of the actual image appearance so we're not 'spotting' stuff that doesn't require a lick of spotting!

What isn't proper (ideal) is the the built-in spotting tool overlay while dehaze method is really of usable value.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:24:37 am by digitaldog »
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #76 on: July 02, 2015, 09:34:55 am »

Some of us who've tried both options disagree.

Clearly. So how much should I ask for my 700% Clarity PV2010 Magic Bullet preset bundle? Not a serious question, but it outperforms any other method.
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #77 on: July 02, 2015, 10:18:04 am »

PS Some examples, and a hot tip

Thanks for these samples John, very illustrative.

Only problem I see with your 700% clarity/PV 2010 tip is that it will fill the coffers of the sensor swab industry and make people clean their sensor between every shot to remove spots that are never seen in "real life".
I think what I have learned from you in this thread is that the "A" method lets you easily toggle with how the picture will actually look and not concentrate on spots that are invisible. Btw, using 'ctrl' Z for the 100% dehaze achieves the same goal.

On the other hand it's very easy to become blind and miss obvious spots and using a 100% dehaze check just before export (and then don't forget to undo) can reveal spots that were overlooked with the "A" method (or vice-versa). If there's more tools in the box why not use them?
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #78 on: July 02, 2015, 10:43:34 am »

I think what I have learned from you in this thread is that the "A" method lets you easily toggle with how the picture will actually look and not concentrate on spots that are invisible. Btw, using 'ctrl' Z for the 100% dehaze achieves the same goal.

You've seen that you can temporarily enable the mask by holding A down? Release A and it vanishes. I do that a lot, or I'll press A and switch on the mask.

I agree it's important to avoid frightening oneself into cleaning spots that just aren't visible, so I'd contend you get diminishing marginal returns from other tools if you've indeed used the built-in spotting tools to their fullest extent. That clarity idea is a bit of a joke, but thanks for suggesting the ideal business partners!

John
Logged

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Use Lightroom's Dehaze Tool to Locate Dust Spots
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2015, 05:29:31 pm »

Some things are objective, and AutoSync is the measurably fastest way to work - it simply requires fewer clicks.
If processing 'identical' images certainly. Otherwise, not necessarily.
If I sync a bunch of images I don't always sync every tweak. Sometimes not only is the subject different, but the camera used is, so I need to be selective with my syncing.
Plus as much as I love to reduce keystrokes, autosync doesn't always do it for me.
However I could modify my overall workflow to make autosync more applicable, but that isn't necessarily faster overall for my creative process.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up