LR 6 and Dehaze

[Mark D Segal]

...............

I would hate to have no choice but to work with the products of a company forcing me to adopt a way of buying their products I dislike. It is obviously a matter of principle, the 10 US$ per months are a lot cheaper (probably 5 times) than what I was happily giving away to Adobe with my full edition package every 18 months till then.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well Bernard, of course the fact that you use alternative applications that you think deliver better IQ indicates that at least for now there is no compulsion to buy a subscription from Adobe - and at present Adobe offers the "perpetual license" option for LR. I would not be the least bit surprised however to see it discontinued sooner than later - the current kind of confusion and debate amongst the clientele cannot be helpful to them. But I wonder how long it will take the competitors to latch onto the commercial benefits (to them) of the subscription approach and in fact down the road there will be no option and we will have no choice but to "get with the program" - literally. Look at what is happening with Microsoft Office for example. I'm thinking this is the future of software vending in general so perhaps we will just need to grin and bear it.

[BernardLanguillier]

Hello Mark,

You may be right, but I believe that companies successful in the long run are the ones delivering value to their customers while providing a pleasing business experience through their various touch points.

I don't feel that Adobe is doing such a great job on the second point.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Schewe]

I don't feel that Adobe is doing such a great job on the second point.

No disagreement here...but rather than attributing this to an evil conspiracy, I really think it's incompetence and a lack of understanding of the photographic marketplace. Approaching it from this perspective is different than thinking Adobe is evil.

[BernardLanguillier]

No disagreement here...but rather than attributing this to an evil conspiracy, I really think it's incompetence and a lack of understanding of the photographic marketplace. Approaching it from this perspective is different than thinking Adobe is evil.

Jeff,

I don't see Adobe as evil. I just dislike some of the business decisions they have taken recently.

I wouldn't bother writing this if I didn't like working in PS.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Schewe]

I don't see Adobe as evil. I just dislike some of the business decisions they have taken recently.

Well just realize that Dehaze was not a conspiracy to get users to adopt LR CC 2015.1, ok? The engineers did the best they could but couldn't get it done for LR 6.1 time line due to development (technical) issues (not some evil conspiracy).

It does nothing useful to expand or extend conspiracy theories...conspiracy implies an advanced plot which simply, Adobe is neither interested in nor capable of doing.

[BernardLanguillier]

Well just realize that Dehaze was not a conspiracy to get users to adopt LR CC 2015.1, ok? The engineers did the best they could but couldn't get it done for LR 6.1 time line due to development (technical) issues (not some evil conspiracy).

It does nothing useful to expand or extend conspiracy theories...conspiracy implies an advanced plot which simply, Adobe is neither interested in nor capable of doing.

Jeff,

I don't doubt you word.

Then nothing should prevent them from releasing the capability for LR6 as a point release, right?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Schewe]

Then nothing should prevent them from releasing the capability for LR6 as a point release, right?

Well, yes...sadly Adobe's quarter ended end of May and that was the cutoff for adding Dehaze to LR 6.1.

Going back to the reason that new features can't be added to an application AFTER the end of the quarter that the major release is released, that's why LR 6.1 can't get Dehaze...sucks, but that's the way it is. Revenue Recognition...it's a matter of accounting.

Mid June was after the end of Adobe's quarter that ended end on May. So, no new features (like it or not).

And no, it wasn't an Adobe conspiracy...it was less that optimal timing.

So, LR 2015.1 gets Dehaze (and Blacks/Whites in local) and LR 6.1 doesn't.

Sucks...but not a conspiracy, it's just unfortunate timing (seriously, no conspiracy involved).

I know some people want to blame Adobe and attribute this to a conspiracy to force people toward a subscription license, but Adobe seriously doesn't have the skills to do this. All they are trying to do is advance their offerings...with the subscription licenses, that's easy. New features get added as they become available. With LR 6.x, you won't get the new features till the next major version, LR 7.

This shouldn't coma as a surprise...

[chez]

My point here is Adobe had a choice: they could have made all their customers happy but they chose not to.

I can see if 6 months, one year down the road they offer a new feature the CC customers get it, the others don't. But two months? Come on.

Allan

Shoe on the other foot. Customers made a choice and the one's that chose the CC route get features when they are available while the one's that chose the perpetual route must wait for those features until the next major release.

Now wouldn't the CC people be pissed off if the perpetual release got the same features at the same time...when the CC people are paying every month for these new features to be available before the perpetual licenses.

[chez]

Although I don't use LR much but somehow own a LR CC license, I agree with the OP 100%.

Releasing LR6 on Apr-21 while adding a high visibility feature in CC only less than 2 months later is a slap in the face of LR6 paying customers, plain and simple.

There is no way they could not have either delayed LR6 a bit to include this feature or made it available a bit faster. This obviously per design.

If that isn't Screaming "those who don't like the subscription model, move to another raw converter", there is never going to be a more clear signal.

Cheers,
Bernard

Software is a funny thing...it is very hard to accurately predict when a feature will be ready for prime time. Managing a release is very much a decision between a release date and the features that go into the release.

We have no idea exactly what if any issues existed with the dehaze feature when Adobe decided to release LR6. Who knows, maybe it was still very unstable and the decision was made that Adobe could not wait any longer in releasing LR6.

Did we all not already complain how long it was taking Adobe to get LR6 out the door. I believe there were numerous discussions on the already delayed release of LR6.

[Mark D Segal]

Did we all not already complain how long it was taking Adobe to get LR6 out the door. I believe there were numerous discussions on the already delayed release of LR6.

"We" excludes "me". I could care less when they are ready with a new version. But when they release it, it should be ready for prime time, properly tested for both download and operational functionality.

[BernardLanguillier]

New features get added as they become available. With LR 6.x, you won't get the new features till the next major version, LR 7.

This shouldn't coma as a surprise...

Well, it does and this is where your arguments stop to be logical Jeff.

I can fully understand that they wanted to release LR6 on time and that dehaze was not ready in that time frame.

But there is absolutely nothing preventing them from adding the feature in LR6.2 next week now that it is ready for integration within LR CC.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Mark D Segal]

Well, it does and this is where your arguments stop to be logical Jeff.

I can fully understand that they wanted to release LR6 on time and that dehaze was not ready in that time frame.

But there is absolutely nothing preventing them from adding the feature in LR6.2 next week now that it is ready for integration within LR CC.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, the whole point is that there is no program and no particular compulsion for them to keep these applications in tandem.You buy perpetual you wait the 18 month update cycle. You buy CC you get updates as ready. Make your choice and you get what you bought into.

[Alan Klein]

I think the CC solution is great for those who continually need updated features.  Pros, advanced amateurs, etc.  But for the average photographer, those bells and whistles aren't needed or certainly not as often.  They need a good program that allows them to pursue a photo hobby.  They need something for their vacation and family shots.  I know a lot of these people in my 55+ photo club.  And some of them have really expensive equipment.  Cost is not an issue.  But they wouldn't know a black point from a clone tool.  Most of these features are beyond their capability anyway.  But they'll buy Adobe products because of their reputation.  And then use them only for cropping, printing and posting on the Facebook.  The idea they need both LR and PS and also regularly updated is beyond their needs by a long shot.  

When these photographers look at renting, their wives moan at the additional expense.  They'd rather go to a restaurant.   The seemingly cheap $10 a month grows to $1200 in ten years.  That could buy a lot of camera equipment.  And eating out!  I think for these people and those under 55, and they make up a huge number of people, LR in its current configuration is more than they need.  I think Adobe realized this when they implemented CC.  That's why they have Elements and so far continue to license LR, providing updates and revisions accordingly.       So make your choice.  

[chez]

Well, it does and this is where your arguments stop to be logical Jeff.

I can fully understand that they wanted to release LR6 on time and that dehaze was not ready in that time frame.

But there is absolutely nothing preventing them from adding the feature in LR6.2 next week now that it is ready for integration within LR CC.

Cheers,
Bernard

But that is exactly what LR CC offers that your perpetual license does not...continuous feature release. Your perpetual license is behaving like it used to with an 18-24 month update cycle where another major release would be expected with added functionality.

[Manoli]

But I wonder how long it will take the competitors to latch onto the commercial benefits (to them) of the subscription approach and in fact down the road there will be no option and we will have no choice but to "get with the program" - literally. Look at what is happening with Microsoft Office for example ...

Even better, why not look at CaptureOne - buyers option to either subscribe or perpetual licence, both options plainly visible - no confusion. I see no commercial benefit to PhaseOne in changing their structure - in fact they've explicitly stated there will be no change.

Thanks for reminding me about Microsoft Office, I'd forgotten it existed - Apache OpenOffice being a very credible alternative.

[MarkM]

But there is absolutely nothing preventing them from adding the feature in LR6.2 next week now that it is ready for integration within LR CC.

My history may be a little hazy, but I remember that Adobe, along with most other software companies, saved big new features for paid, major upgrades. Dot releases were maintenance and bug fixes. The new features were the reason people were willing to upgrade and people upgrading paid for the development of new features. (There's a feature/version chart for Lightroom here)

When the subscription model came out, a major selling point was that they would now be free to offer new features as they were developed rather than using them to sell major releases. I can see no reason why Adobe would include new features in dot releases for non-subscribers even if they could. By opting for a perpetual license, you are essentially saying, "I don't want to fund new development as it happens, I'll wait and buy the new version when there's enough features to justify the cost." You seem to want the main benefit of subscribing without the cost and to me that's an unreasonable expectation.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It is often said that men differ from boys only in the price of their toys. I think I see here a lot of whining kids who want to have their cake (perpetual license) and eat it too (continuous updates)

[Schewe]

But there is absolutely nothing preventing them from adding the feature in LR6.2 next week now that it is ready for integration within LR CC.

What part of Adobe can't add new features for a perpetually licensed product after the end of the quarter in which the product shipped? This was all covered to death when CC was launched...due to the way Adobe does revenue recognition for perpetual and subscription, only subscription software can get new features. To change their accounting would be monumental and require re-accounting and restating earning results from back to when LR first shipped. Very unlikely...

Dehaze will come when LR 7 ships...that and any/all of the other incremental features added to LR CC. And if the timing is right, any new features that come after ship but before the end of the quarter that LR 7 shipped.

I know people don't like this...personally, I don't either but I understand it and accept it. I started using the subscription model starting with CS6...I find it useful to get new features when they are ready instead of waiting till some arbitrary release date.

[brandon]

What part of Adobe can't add new features for a perpetually licensed product after the end of the quarter in which the product shipped? This was all covered to death when CC was launched...due to the way Adobe does revenue recognition for perpetual and subscription, only subscription software can get new features. To change their accounting would be monumental and require re-accounting and restating earning results from back to when LR first shipped. Very unlikely...

Dehaze will come when LR 7 ships...that and any/all of the other incremental features added to LR CC. And if the timing is right, any new features that come after ship but before the end of the quarter that LR 7 shipped.

I know people don't like this...personally, I don't either but I understand it and accept it. I started using the subscription model starting with CS6...I find it useful to get new features when they are ready instead of waiting till some arbitrary release date.

I dont personally like it either, but Im over it, and cant for my purposes see any reason to upgrade to LR6 (after LR3,4,5) let alone get the CC "as they come" upgraded feature set, at this stage. Others will be different. Worth remembering that advertising/marketing is the art of making people unhappy with their current lot (camera, software, body image, car, kitchen  etc etc). Best to zone out of it and concentrate on the joy/(and business for the pros out there) of photgraphy.

[Some Guy]

Just bend over like all the lemmings who like lease-ware and you get the newest goodies.

Fwiw, perpetual-ware has been released as app-ware (or apps) in cellnet-land and much cheap and better too.  Adobe stockholders and CEO's (Who probably never use Adobe stuff anyway.) are praying us old school lemmings will stay in internet-land and pay them "forever."  Much like the Italian mafia's insurance motto of: "Buy insurance forever, or we'll bust this place up."

Looking at all the appware out there in cellnet-land, and some of it is quite good a very cheap, the days of floppy-disk desktop/laptop era internet-ware may be shorter lived than Adobe thinks with their subscription-based Cloud-based stuff that is not that user friendly with huge image files and subsequent data charges in cell-net land with these high megapixel cameras/phones.

What parent is going to sign on for their kids to load Adobe's LR onto their phone and pay for a Cloud usage forever subscription?  They can find other stuff out there that does that editing stuff cheaper, better (i.e. Google's Snapspeed), and often for free too (i.e. Snapspeed again).

Of course there are always the "I must have the newest stuff" lemmings who sign on for this crap.  Shame to admit I've done it too - twice.  The car lease was a disaster loss.

Personally, if us old-school lemmings didn't sign onto this new "pay forever scheme," we might not only have cheaper software that we can use forever (or until our desktop/laptop dies), but more creative and current editions too.  The appware and cellnet market is proof of that.

SG