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Author Topic: LR 6 and Dehaze  (Read 23107 times)

iSequoia

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LR 6 and Dehaze
« on: June 18, 2015, 04:40:06 pm »

My brand new copy of Lightroom 6 (perpetual license) will not get the new Dehaze feature. Only Lightroom CC subscribers are so blessed. As much as I love Lightroom, this is robbery. If Adobe had been upfront that LR6 would not be supported I would probably have gone ahead and subscribed even though I have no use for Photoshop in the photography I do. I'm beginning to understand why so many people seem to hate Adobe. Affinity Photo is looking better by the day. -JD
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 04:48:12 pm »

Why are you presuming that Lightroom 6 will not be supported? This is not the issue - there is every reason to believe it will continue to be supported much as LR has always been supported in the past. You are simply missing the distinction between a subscription model and the perpetual licensing model. With the former you get updates as they are ready; with the latter you get them in a single batch at the next upgrade cycle, which could be 18 months away. That is the key advantage of the subscription model. I don't think it's appropriate to presume the latter should be converted into the former. Adobe offers both for LR and you do have the choice about which to buy.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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iSequoia

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 04:57:18 pm »

Nice try Mark.
For the past 8 years that I have been using Lightroom and new features were regularly released as updates to the current version. A new version also included new features but it's was never necessary to wait for a new version. If Adobe releases a version 6.2 that includes Dehaze I'll take it all back.
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Schewe

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 05:20:07 pm »

For the past 8 years that I have been using Lightroom and new features were regularly released as updates to the current version. A new version also included new features but it's was never necessary to wait for a new version.

Actually, I think you are dis-remembering. The ONLY times that LR got more features in a dot release was if the the dot release was within the same quarter that the main release occurred. That happened with 4.1 and 5.1 as I recall. Thereafter 4.x and 5.x did not get new features only bug fixes and new cameras. But LR 6 came out in April and Adobe's quarter ended the last of May so 6.1 did not get any new features. Nor will it until LR 7 is released.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 05:26:34 pm »

I'm not "trying" anything. OK, so on the perpetual license model you may need to wait at least for the next "dot release" depending on the timing as Schewe mentions. The basic point I'm making remains the same. You can expect quicker updates on the subscription model than you'll get on the perpetual license model, whatever their periodicity. That is part of the design package. It is clear that Adobe is doing all they legitimately can to steer customers into the subscription model, but I don't take that to mean they are reneging on their support obligations to those on the licensing model, as you expressed it. They could have simply discontinued perpetual licensing for LR as they have for PS. Interestingly, if you read last year's 10-K to the SEC, you will see they were expecting to actually lose money over the transition period between the two licensing models, but they offered reasons why they expect over the longer term there will be benefits to both them and the customers. Time will tell. Meanwhile I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, as the new approach at least for the photography bundle seems quite advantageous not withstanding some recent confusion created by less than obvious instructions on the upgrade options.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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iSequoia

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 05:50:39 pm »

Now I have to decide if Dehaze is worth a CC subscription just 60 days after I paid $79 for a new copy of LR6 even though I don't need or want Photoshop. LR4 and LR5 did get new features on dot upgrades. Who on earth would know about the one quarter time limit? It's not the money, it's the poorly thought out business practice. Never surprise your customers in a negative way even your dumb customers. Adobe needs to be more upfront.

I have and have benefited greatly from all of Jeff and Michaels LR tutorials, good work, thanks.
-JD
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 06:54:15 pm »

What makes you think that Adobe is under any obligation to offer you new features once you bought their product? You bought it based on the functionality contained in the package at the time of the transaction. This is precisely the reason the subscription model exists. You want latest-and-greatest features "fresh off the press"? Go subscription. You hate subscription model? No problem, you have a choice. But you can't have the best of both worlds.

Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 07:04:50 pm »

................ But you can't have the best of both worlds.

Ah shucks, I'm devastated  :-) Don't we all yearn for the best of all worlds in our moments of unreality?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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iSequoia

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 07:20:08 pm »

Sorry but I'm not trying to rip off Adobe. It's not about the money. I'd have gone ahead and subscribed and saved $79 even though I don't need or use Photoshop.

Why is everybody (here and on other forums) so touchy about this? Instead of defending their move by pointing out that I should have understood the various ambiguous statements, why not just say "sorry, we (they) could (should) have been more clear about the consequences of the choices"? We could have avoided entire thread.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 07:25:48 pm »

I'm noit the least bit touchy and I doubt anyone else here is either. We have no need, incentive or interest to be. The fact is that there is SCADS of information about all this posted all over the place, including in this Forum, numerous threads since the time the subscription model came into being. Adobe also material on their website explaining how these options work, though I agree with you in some respects it could be made more accessible/crystal clear - but their main interest truth be told is converting us to subscriptions. Maybe all we're pointing out to you is that your expectations may be a bit unrealistic and had you done more research you would have probably not raised the question. But now you know.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MarkM

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 07:32:00 pm »

Why is everybody (here and on other forums) so touchy about this? Instead of defending their move by pointing out that I should have understood the various ambiguous statements, why not just say "sorry, we (they) could (should) have been more clear about the consequences of the choices"? We could have avoided entire thread.

I think the reason you are getting some push back rather that a simple answer is that your original post is inflammatory. You accuse Adobe of 'robbery' for not updating your version with a new feature. Maybe it's just hyperbole on your part, but it doesn't encourage a measured response. 
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 07:58:43 pm »

For the past 8 years that I have been using Lightroom and new features were regularly released as updates to the current version. A new version also included new features but it's was never necessary to wait for a new version.
Perhaps you need a history lesson:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop_Lightroom
Further, Adobe made it quite clear, as did many other sites that the perpetual license will get no new features but will get bug fixes, camera support, lens profiles. They were very clear that subscription customers would get new features. Now f you go over to DP Review, the pitchforks and axes are out for Adobe thanks to a few members there that suggest Adobe lied to them, their business is unethical etc. These folks point to the actual Adobe web pages and accuse them with their typical confusion while others who can read and comprehend English and who understood the differences in the two models are attempting to explain the facts to these simpletons. It's rather ugly.
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aderickson

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 09:01:09 pm »

I have no dog in this fight as I don't use Lightroom.

I do browse quite a few photography forums and blogs and it's clear that there are some angry LR users, particularly those who figured out (with difficulty) how to upgrade to LR6. How many these users are, and to what extent, if any, their concerns are legitimate is not the real issue. The point is Adobe pissed off some paying customers. That's never good.

I think the timing of the new version rollouts was poorly thought out and perhaps caused some additional skepticism of Adobe's motives. Roll out a new version of LR and then immediately roll out a new version of CC and say sorry LR doesn't get the newer features. If the rollouts were reversed LR would get them; do I have that right?

Allan
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 09:07:07 pm »

No you don't. Read above.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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aderickson

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 09:27:28 pm »

Then I guess I am one of Andrew's simpletons. LR6 perpetual DID get new features according to the Wiki article. It's just one feature, DeHaze, that got in the CC 2015 version that folks are apparently mad about.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 09:42:34 pm »


Why is everybody (here and on other forums) so touchy about this? I
One problem is the issue has been beat to death a long time ago.  We get it , some don't like it, many of us have no issues.  Fine. But Adobe has been pretty straight forward about this.  Features updates are in major releases or through CC (same thing happened with the last version and the local adjustment brush, which showed up in ACR but couldn't move to Lightroom because it was a new feature and there was no LR CC at the time.

 i I'm surprised LR even is still available as a perpetual license, and to assume that will continue forever is probably a mistake.  Seems at some point in time Adobe will get tired of all of this and must eliminate the perpetual license (which isn't perpetual because at some point hardware/OS upgrades will make it obsolete.  Granted this may take quite a few years. 

as far as deHaze and the timing, while i agree they were close together, seems the appropriate upgrade/alpha/beta test cycles are really at play here.  I'm sure the feature set for LR 6 was locked down several months before the release.  Engineers continued to work on features on their "bucket" list or however things are added in - aka deHaze, but the alpha/beta test for one feature is probably much simpler and much shorter, so it was pretty easy to roll out the feature. So it didn't take long to get it ready.
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aderickson

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 09:54:39 pm »

My point here is Adobe had a choice: they could have made all their customers happy but they chose not to.

I can see if 6 months, one year down the road they offer a new feature the CC customers get it, the others don't. But two months? Come on.

Allan
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2015, 10:11:44 pm »

Then I guess I am one of Andrew's simpletons. LR6 perpetual DID get new features according to the Wiki article. It's just one feature, DeHaze, that got in the CC 2015 version that folks are apparently mad about.
LR6 perpetual did not get Dehaze.
https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/06/june-updates-to-cc-photography.html

June updates to CC Photography

Lightroom CC 2015.1 and Lightroom 6.1 are now available on Adobe.com.  The goal of this release is to provide additional camera raw support, lens profile support and address bugs that were introduced in previous releases of Lightroom.  Lightroom on iOS v1.5 is also now available.

Bug fixes, Tethered capture, new camera and lens support updates are available in both Lightroom 6 and Lightroom CC.

Lightroom CC on the desktop

Dehaze*
Many outdoor scenes have some amount of haze due to atmospheric conditions. Dehaze is a new feature for removing/adding haze and fog from pictures.
The user can control how much haze to remove by adjusting a new slider in the Effects panel in the Dehaze section. This feature can also be used in the other direction to increase the amount of haze.
Recommended Workflow – Adjust the white balance of the image before applying the Dehaze control.
Local White and Black Adjustment Sliders*
Available with all 3 local adjustment tools:  Gradient Filter, Radial Filter and Local adjustment brush
Useful for fine-tuning tonality near the brightest and darkest parts of the picture. For instance, they can be used to increase the contrast of highlights.
Recommended Workflow – Make your global adjustments first and then use the local adjustments to fine tune.  Use the clip warning indicator to help avoid clipping highlights and shadows.
* Please note that these features are not available in the standalone version of Lightroom 6.1.
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smahn

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2015, 10:25:12 pm »

My point here is Adobe had a choice: they could have made all their customers happy but they chose not to.

I can see if 6 months, one year down the road they offer a new feature the CC customers get it, the others don't. But two months? Come on.

Allan

Someone once wrote about the exorbitant costs of college tuition in the US, something to the effect that "going to college is a raw deal; the only worse deal is not going to college."

So it may be said of Adobe, subscription is a raw deal; the only worse deal is not subscribing.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 10:35:30 pm by smahn »
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Alan Klein

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Re: LR 6 and Dehaze
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2015, 11:12:02 pm »

I'm not "trying" anything. OK, so on the perpetual license model you may need to wait at least for the next "dot release" depending on the timing as Schewe mentions. The basic point I'm making remains the same. You can expect quicker updates on the subscription model than you'll get on the perpetual license model, whatever their periodicity. That is part of the design package. It is clear that Adobe is doing all they legitimately can to steer customers into the subscription model, but I don't take that to mean they are reneging on their support obligations to those on the licensing model, as you expressed it. They could have simply discontinued perpetual licensing for LR as they have for PS. Interestingly, if you read last year's 10-K to the SEC, you will see they were expecting to actually lose money over the transition period between the two licensing models, but they offered reasons why they expect over the longer term there will be benefits to both them and the customers. Time will tell. Meanwhile I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, as the new approach at least for the photography bundle seems quite advantageous not withstanding some recent confusion created by less than obvious instructions on the upgrade options.

That's really old news.  Adobe has made huge profits from their CC leasing model and their stock has soared as a result.  They made a brilliant business move.  People were not going to keep buying or upgrading especially at the prices they used to charge.  Now, with CC,  they locked in huge numbers of people who continue to pay, and pay,  for minor upgrades to keep them thinking they're actually getting something terrific.    De-gazing is really just tossing out a bone.  Before, with new editions, they had to make real changes.  Now they can do less at less engineering cost, raising profits even more.  Only enough changes to justify people to continue to rent the leasing model.
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