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Author Topic: Sony Kicks Butt  (Read 292825 times)

rdonson

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Sony Kicks Butt
« on: June 11, 2015, 08:55:35 AM »

Thanks, Kevin, for calling out Sony's obvious innovation.  I think that you're spot on when you say the $3200 price tag is NOT outrageous for a flagship camera.  Heck, just compare it to Nikon and Canon equivalents.
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Ron

Otto Phocus

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 09:18:28 AM »

That new Sony sounds like a sweet system. 

::Drool::
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Michael LS

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 10:31:23 AM »

Nice rant, Michael. Looking forward to LuLa's further exploits with the a7r part deux. Already hard at work talking myself out of buying it.

"Self !! You don't make prints large enough to need this."

Nevertheless, for those who can use this camera, and in particular,
incurable gear freaks, this gizmo is a wet dream.

jwstl

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 11:33:12 AM »

I didn't see any mention of Sony adding uncompressed Raw. Will this camera still have the 11 or 12 bit (can't remember exactly which) compressed Raw?
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Isaac

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 02:00:13 PM »

Quote
"…a time to innovate and give the photographic community products that meet their needs, and as importantly, excite."

Sony also announced 2 other cameras - RX100 IV and RX10 II.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 03:00:26 PM by Isaac »
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amolitor

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 02:08:01 PM »

It is the perfect camera! It hits every point I ever asked for!

Oh, not quite. Because it does not support compressed RAW I am unable to purchase it.

(I have seen at least three people across the webernets saying, essentially, this, and thus we see the folly of trying to build THE PERFECT CAMERA which will cause all the enthusiasts to leap to buy it -- they won't. They'll find an excuse not to.)
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Stefan.Steib

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 02:22:49 PM »

Beside of the camera - what I really like here is Sony´s spirit !
Do it right. Kaizen to the maximum. Stick to it and do it until it shines.
Japanese body and soul, the true samurai living the bushido.

よくやりました!

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Telecaster

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 02:35:32 PM »

I didn't see any mention of Sony adding uncompressed Raw. Will this camera still have the 11 or 12 bit (can't remember exactly which) compressed Raw?

No uncompressed RAW apparently. Unlike with Andrew's "enthusiasts" this doesn't bother me…in all the real-world A7r photos I've taken it's never been an issue. But IMO Sony still should offer an uncompressed option, to shut people up as much as anything else.  ;)  (Maybe the compression is implemented on-chip in such a manner that it can't be turned off…which would be incredibly stoopid, but ya never know.)

As the A7x system is still incomplete lens-wise, I'll be taking a pass on this new camera at least 'til those eight unspec'd lenses on the Sony roadmap are announced & described in detail. Or until Zeiss announces a Batis in the 45–50mm range.

I hope the new ii finally implements sensible shutter speed choices in Av mode with Auto ISO enabled. Also not a deal breaker for me…but getting it right is so simple that not doing so suggests perversity rather than incompetence.

-Dave-
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Kevin Callahan

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 04:55:09 PM »

Quote from: Telecaster link=topic=101111.msg828982#msg828982 date=

As the A7[i
x[/i] system is still incomplete lens-wise, I'll be taking a pass on this new camera at least 'til those eight unspec'd lenses on the Sony roadmap are announced & described in detail. Or until Zeiss announces a Batis in the 45–50mm range.

Have you tried the Sony/Zeiss 55mm 1.8? It's outstanding.
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Telecaster

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 06:07:12 PM »

Have you tried the Sony/Zeiss 55mm 1.8? It's outstanding.

Yep, the 55mm is a fine lens. I just like the idea of an all-Batis setup…assuming the 25 & 85mms deliver the goods. (In practice I'm no purist. Most of my lens lineups have been & are multi-brand affairs.)

-Dave-
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rogan

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 06:54:56 PM »

Michael,
 Everything but usb3. usb2???? So tethering with a 42 mp file really isn't an option unless one frame per 3 minutes in acceptable. Once again, so close yet so far.
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michael

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 08:13:20 PM »

Yup. Sony missed a few boats...

– no uncompressed raw

– no GPS

– no USB3 tethering

But, my point is not that they made the perfect camera, but hat they hit all the major bases this time round.

Michael
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David Anderson

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 09:00:27 PM »

While Sony has certainly made another big leap, I don't think it's completely fair to suggest the big boys have been sitting on their hands.
Nikon took 35mm digital to new level the D800 and have a decent upgrade in the D810. I also see the steady issue of new lenses as a plus with both the 20 1.8G and new compact 300 f4 being quite tempting.
Canon ? A 50 MP 35mm DSLR is hardly asleep at the wheel, and even if it is just a new sensor in an older body, it's a big leap in resolution. Lenses like the 11-24 are also pretty exciting as is the prospect of a 5DIV.

That said, Sony certainly have their foot on the gas and I find the A7 series very tempting for both the tech, the vibe and the new lenses.
A couple things that put me off the brand are the single memory card slots in the A's (making them risky for paid work) and the confusion in two lens mounts in their system.
Assuming for a minute that Canon and Nikon will not be doing anything in mirrorless that rivals the A7's I can see myself getting one of the A7RII's and a couple of lenses for limited paid work and unlimited personal work.

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Josh-H

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2015, 12:48:34 AM »

While Sony has certainly made another big leap, I don't think it's completely fair to suggest the big boys have been sitting on their hands.
Nikon took 35mm digital to new level the D800 and have a decent upgrade in the D810. I also see the steady issue of new lenses as a plus with both the 20 1.8G and new compact 300 f4 being quite tempting.
Canon ? A 50 MP 35mm DSLR is hardly asleep at the wheel, and even if it is just a new sensor in an older body, it's a big leap in resolution. Lenses like the 11-24 are also pretty exciting as is the prospect of a 5DIV.

That said, Sony certainly have their foot on the gas and I find the A7 series very tempting for both the tech, the vibe and the new lenses.
A couple things that put me off the brand are the single memory card slots in the A's (making them risky for paid work) and the confusion in two lens mounts in their system.
Assuming for a minute that Canon and Nikon will not be doing anything in mirrorless that rivals the A7's I can see myself getting one of the A7RII's and a couple of lenses for limited paid work and unlimited personal work.



Just to be clear though - the Nikon D800e and D810 are driven by Sony sensors. And it is really the Sony Sensor at the heart of these two machines that has been the catalyst for their success.


BernardLanguillier

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2015, 02:16:12 AM »

Just to be clear though - the Nikon D800e and D810 are driven by Sony sensors. And it is really the Sony Sensor at the heart of these two machines that has been the catalyst for their success.

The D810 has many qualities going beyond its sensor, but on the sensor front, that is true. What is also true though is that Sony Semi Conductor (a different company from Sony imaging) sold a large majority of their 36mp sensors, and 24mp sensors before that, thanks to Nikon's business.

So there is really no way to know whether we would have 36mp sensors today without the commitment of Nikon to buy parts in large amounts.

Back on topic, the a7RII is a very appealing proposal!

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 02:18:56 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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Stefan.Steib

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2015, 03:45:09 AM »

I think it is quite funny which kind of arguments are used about a camera that is not even released.

Non Professional because it has only one card slot.
OK - byebye all Medium format gear by Phase, Leaf and Blad. It is non professional ?   ???
Next : no USB3 Tethering. Well the camera costs 3200 $ and not 32000 $ as the MF backs . Maybe THAT is a reason ?
No GPS: whoha..... that´s my favorite. Nikon and Canon sell these additional GPS additions to their DSLRs and that is ok ?

and now: No Uncompressed Raw. Hmmm. Nobody has seen an ARW file from that new camera yet. The video section mentions a new Codec, I am pretty sure they also worked on the photographic part, as this BSI Sensor is completely new.
Just for info: ALL used Raws today are compressed. Tell me ONE single maker that stores uncompressed Tiff 16 Bit with Gamma 1.0 ?
................................................................Ok - I´m waiting. But there is none. Not one.

I understand that people want all in package , for half the price , at a quarter of the size and when they have it- it shall stay the same forever because it protects their investment....... But then innovation stops - like with the other makers.
To compare this camera with a list of features of the complete Photo market and  complain their lacking
is like complain about a sportscar because it´s trunk is so small.

I don´t even want to talk about the lacking lenses: one Word - more ZEISS coming, the ones which are already here and usable
beat the shxx out of the competition and they are afraid I guess.

and for a last word - here something written by George Orwell. I think that  fits pretty nice.

“It struck me that perhaps a lot of the people you see walking about are dead. We say that a man's dead when his heart stops and not before. It seems a bit arbitrary. After all, parts of your body don't stop working - hair goes on growing for years, for instance. Perhaps a man really dies when his brain stops, when he loses the power to take in a new idea. Old Porteous is like that. Wonderfully learned, wonderfully good taste - but he's not capable of change. Just says the same things and thinks the same thoughts over and over again. There are a lot of people like that. Dead minds, stopped inside. Just keep moving backwards and forwards on the same little track, getting fainter all the time, like ghosts.”

― George Orwell, Coming Up for Air

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David Anderson

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2015, 04:05:06 AM »


Non Professional because it has only one card slot.
OK - byebye all Medium format gear by Phase, Leaf and Blad. It is non professional ?   ???


I doubt most medium format shooters are doing the same number of frames and card changes that I do, though I could be wrong.

The single card slot is an issue for me because the camera uses SD cards and I've had them both fail and break - even good ones.
If it had a single CF card I would feel more comfortable.
(no experience with Memory Sticks - maybe they're more reliable ?



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davidgp

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2015, 05:42:35 AM »

The D810 has many qualities going beyond its sensor, but on the sensor front, that is true. What is also true though is that Sony Semi Conductor (a different company from Sony imaging) sold a large majority of their 36mp sensors, and 24mp sensors before that, thanks to Nikon's business.

So there is really no way to know whether we would have 36mp sensors today without the commitment of Nikon to buy parts in large amounts.

Well, Sony it is doing the big money in the image sensor division with mobile phones (image sensor production grow 80% from 2009 to last year - http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/image-sensor-market-shares.html ). I read some time ago that Sony expects this sector to still growing, in an slower pace, for the next years thanks to the incorporation of cameras to cars. I think that sensors for cameras are at this point a small market for what Sony Image Sensors is doing.

About no 36mpx, yes, probably Nikon asked Sony if that was possible, but if we look about how sensor manufacturing works (or any other type of chips), really we have to thank sensors like the new BSI CMOS full-frame sensor to mobile phones, it is not the same for Sony (or any other chip manufacter) to spend money validating the manufacturing process into a tiny chip of less than 1" like it was required for mobile phones. Lots of chips are going to be wrong at the beginning, and that it is money that you lose. If those chips are tiny, the yields rates are higher per wafer than if the chips are bigger. When the manufacturing process it is mature enough, you can start making bigger chips with good yield rates (number of good chips per wafer). Probably the same happened with 36MP, at some point yields where good enough for Sony to do that at full-frame level.

Anyway, I agree with Michael comments in its rantatorial... since I played with the Olympus E-M1 for several days, I can not see the reason for not adding an EVF to a camera. I will wait to the reviews (and save money), but this camera maybe it is the one that I use to give some rest to my veteran Canon 5D Mark II (also, keeping and eye to how the A7r price goes down... even with shutter sock...)

dreed

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2015, 06:34:03 AM »

Yup. Sony missed a few boats...

– no uncompressed raw

– no GPS

– no USB3 tethering

But, my point is not that they made the perfect camera, but hat they hit all the major bases this time round.

Would you rank them in that order or importance? Or would USB3 tethering come in above GPS?
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michael

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Re: Sony Kicks Butt
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2015, 07:09:47 AM »

Would you rank them in that order or importance? Or would USB3 tethering come in above GPS?

The question has no absolute relevance. For some people each of these is no more relevant than whether it comes with a a leather or synthetic neck strap.

Yes, these are missing items. But for me, none of them are a big deal. For others they might be.

The biggest mistake that people make is not being able to see the world through the eyes of others. The job of a reviewer is to try and separate those items that are important to the majority from those that are less so.

My new car has almost every gadget available, but lacks self-parking. Cute gizmo, but hardly something that I really want or need. Someone else who is not a good parallel parker might have rejected the car for this omission though.

Michael
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