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Author Topic: Some Contax 645 advice?  (Read 21163 times)

D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2015, 02:57:57 pm »

Dragomir,

Looked at your website, love much of your work.

BC

Looked at both of your websites. Love much of the work. And the work is the thing, really, isn't it? I can see no reason not to coax my Contax fully into the digital realm.
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D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2015, 03:25:28 pm »


Now I love the contax have 5, but rarely use it because of the Leica S2 and if I was buying a digital back for my contax I wouldn't spend past a p30+, never an IQ anything, given how I use cameras.
...

I'm fascinated by this comment -- the "given how I use cameras" particularly. Is it because you always work tethered? Or are there other aspects of use that come into play here? For client-driven projects, that's usually my case. For personal work, not so much.

Now you'll hear a lot about a p30 being a "cropped" camera and that's just more negativity, but it's really not much different in size than most medium format sensors.  A p45 for examples has around a 1.14 crop a p30+ a 1.24 crop.  Your just splitting hairs.

It's funny you never hear any negativity about the cmos almost 645 cameras that are a 1.3 crop so I wouldn't worry about it.

The only reason i care about the a cropped sensor is that i know there will never be a wider lens than the 35mm for Contax.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 03:45:53 pm by D Fuller »
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lowep

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2015, 05:54:49 pm »

LOL! Maybe I already am a legacy photographer...

This sounds a lot like what I've been thinking. And if a legacy db can deliver on image quality, it's a pretty compelling value proposition.

dunno about you but for me the contax and a legacy db is quite adequate in terms of image quality.

it is hard to judge via internet but here are some sample images from a recent project with this combo.
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lowep

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2015, 06:00:55 pm »


You are right.   Always have been.

Yes the Sony made me blink enough to start placing calls to buy one or two  and how soon how much, etc. etc.

It's one of the few camera announcements Ive seen where they didn't intentionally hobble the camera to sell the next one.

Won't love it but if it does what the specs say it will make me money and maybe save my back from lugging all of those REDs.

IMO

BC

You're right BCooter.  Always have been.

Just buy a $%&! Sony and let me help you get rid of all those REDs
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 06:13:36 pm by lowep »
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ddolde

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2015, 08:11:52 pm »

I would keep the Contax and buy the most megapixel back i could find.  Aptus-10, Aptus-12, IQ180, or Credo 80.  I used to have the Contax with an Aptus 75S. Should have kept it and saved a lot of money.

Now have an IQ140 on a Mamiya DF and a Cambo WRS with three lenses. Could have saved $30K.
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drevil

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2015, 11:00:55 pm »

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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2015, 06:45:16 am »

Dragomir,

Looked at your website, love much of your work.

BC
Looked at both of your websites. Love much of the work. And the work is the thing, really, isn't it? I can see no reason not to coax my Contax fully into the digital realm.

Thanks for the kind words guys!
@BC respect for your work, this means a lot coming from you.
@D Fuler, I agree the object, concept and the style (language) are important, not the gear. Especially these days, when everybody can make an image. So maybe the best investment should be to produce a few projects, and shoot them with what is good enough to deliver the message. The differences between formats are not so important for the above, they are for as - the photographers like me, nervous and tired of looking tons of images.
Oh, youy've helped a lot. And this image does as well. Lovely. Is this the 140mm?
By the way this is 80/2.. I would like to be 127 on a 6x7 or 210 on 4x5 but there is no such digital backs.. With one exception - http://aphotoeditor.com/2011/08/23/mitchell-feinbergs-8x10-digital-capture-back/
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 06:57:10 am by Dragomir Spassov »
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2015, 08:50:36 am »

FWIW, I found the P65+ to be an excellent back.  I put 50k exposures on mine before I traded it in on the IQ260.  Now the IQ 260 is on the block because of... Sony.  Still, Man... I have always REALLY wanted a Contax 645.  But then, I'd also love a Rollei Hy6... so don't listen to me.

CB

Ken R

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2015, 10:15:02 am »

The P65+ can produce beautiful files. I have an IQ160 and love the file quality. The files can be pushed and pulled in post-production a lot. I personally like the look of the larger chips (depth of field / optics). It's not 6x7 (loved the look of my Pentax 6x7's) but its a as close as one can get nowadays.

The Phase backs are rock solid while tethered. The hardware/software integration is superb.

As usual with photography it's all a matter of personal taste. What is in front of the lens and how you direct it as a photographer is what matters most.
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lowep

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2015, 11:24:31 am »

Dammit, forget about Contax, where do I buy the spray can to get that skin tone?
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 12:54:42 pm »

Dammit, forget about Contax, where do I buy the spray can to get that skin tone?
..pff hahaha, my type sense of humour! By the way your Bhutan's project looks interesting. A bit in this social/Colors/Fabrica Magazine aesthetics which I like. Too small and only three.. or I miss something?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 12:56:57 pm by Dragomir Spassov »
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lowep

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2015, 02:31:02 pm »

Too small and only three

it´s just a blurb & all the photos for that project were made with a Crown Graphic or Mamiya 7... those were the days :-)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 02:33:00 pm by lowep »
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D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2015, 06:01:57 pm »

All I was saying is don't get caught up in the upgrade path system.
______________________

Now I use my Contax less because our work has changed.  We shoot 20 to 29 something setups a day, still or motion or sometimes both.  We spend months on a motion project, the still camera is sometimes secondary and time is a premium.

My Contax and P30+ shoots a little better file than the leica, though is slightly harder to work in post for a pretty look. 

____________________

Our of all the digital cameras, I find the Aptus series the prettiest file for most applications. 
...

Not from this small jpg but this image we've cropped full face for a poster with no issues, so I guess it's all up to you.
 

BC, your images are a pretty compelling argument for the connate + legacy back being a viable choice. I like the images I see from leaf (not =just yours) but I don't see many options available for buying one, so I'm looking harder at the phase backs.

FWIW, I found the P65+ to be an excellent back.  I put 50k exposures on mine before I traded it in on the IQ260.  Now the IQ 260 is on the block because of... Sony.  Still, Man... I have always REALLY wanted a Contax 645.  But then, I'd also love a Rollei Hy6... so don't listen to me.

CB, your recommendation means a lot. I share a lot of your taste in motion imaging, and I expect stills to fall in that line.

But Sony... What they're doing might just make me re-think the whole Red thing. But that's another discussion altogether.

Something that amazes me is that in this entire thread, no one has come in and said, "let that 10-year-old camera die and move on." That speaks volumes about the what Contax achieved. It reminds me of the respect Aton carries in the film camera world.

DF
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D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2015, 11:25:25 pm »

On the other note, Phase One has discontinued support for Contax. 5 years from now on when sensor technology will have moved leaps and bounds, IQ280 will still be the best thing we can have for Contax. So it makes me a bit uncertain to keep holding on/keep investing in the system (back up lens/bodies)

I wish Phase One still offer back for Contax at least in a made to order basis, even at premium (+3k). Then I will be much more at peace.

I have two thoughts on this:

The first is that it doesn't seem that sensor technology has moved much at all in the past seven years. Usability technology has moved, but the sensors, with the notable exception of the 50MP CMOS sensor, are pretty much the same as in the P65+. There's an 80MP version, but that's all I see for movement in sensor tech. (I may well be missing something, but that's why I'm so seriously considering a P65+ as an option.)

The second is that we haven't heard from Leaf yet. I find myself wondering if Phase is not being smarter than some give them credit for in limiting support of old tech in the new camera and backs. It's a very Apple thing to do, throowing out the old tech so it doesn't impede the new. (Of course Apple is a consumer products company, and its support for pro markets has been notoriously weak.) But might it be that Phase One has a strategy to keep support of other systems through Leaf? They already support more of them than Phase does.

This is, of coourse, just idle speculation... or maybe wishful thinking.

DAF
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Theodoros

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2015, 06:32:52 am »

I have two thoughts on this:

The first is that it doesn't seem that sensor technology has moved much at all in the past seven years. Usability technology has moved, but the sensors, with the notable exception of the 50MP CMOS sensor, are pretty much the same as in the P65+. There's an 80MP version, but that's all I see for movement in sensor tech. (I may well be missing something, but that's why I'm so seriously considering a P65+ as an option.)

The second is that we haven't heard from Leaf yet. I find myself wondering if Phase is not being smarter than some give them credit for in limiting support of old tech in the new camera and backs. It's a very Apple thing to do, throowing out the old tech so it doesn't impede the new. (Of course Apple is a consumer products company, and its support for pro markets has been notoriously weak.) But might it be that Phase One has a strategy to keep support of other systems through Leaf? They already support more of them than Phase does.

This is, of coourse, just idle speculation... or maybe wishful thinking.

DAF

Hi, I also own C645 system with all lenses but the 350 and use two backs on it, both with multishot ability, a Hasselblad CF-39MS and a Sinarback 54H, the CF-39 I also use alternatively to my DSLRs sometimes. What keeps me with the platform are three things:

1. The superb performance of the Zeiss 120mm APO micro lens which I mostly use for multishot
2. The trouble free compatibility of Contax mount backs with Fuji GX-680 which allows me to have movements and even combine them with multishot on my Fuji 5 lens system.
3. The ...JAS adapter(!!!) which allows me to use my Contax glass on my Nikons (there is one for Canon too) with full dedication, which improved the performance of my DSLRs a lot, but also restricted considerably the equipment I have to carry, since one can only add a DSLR body to the bag and have both systems.

If movements and multishot was not in my essentials and it was within my buget, I would have P-65+ as my first choice due to:

A. The size of the image area which would allow my 35mm lens to work as real wide angle,
B. The ability to use the back in "exposure +" 15mp mode with 2 stops of sensitivity gain.

If my budget was restricted to spend as low as possible, I would either look for an old 22mp Kodak sensor back which IMO (and many others) have superb image quality (the famous "fat pixel magic") but are a bit more prone to moire issues, or look for a Dalsa 33mp back which are known for their superb color and accuracy. As you previously said, Image quality hasn't changed with CCD backs during the last decade... only sensor size and pixel count has...
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yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2015, 07:08:54 am »

Hi Theodoros, just a quick question about fuji gx680, is there a focal plane shutter or only leaf shutter inside the lenses? Im always intrigued when someone brings it up but never handled one.
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Theodoros

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2015, 09:49:05 am »

Hi Theodoros, just a quick question about fuji gx680, is there a focal plane shutter or only leaf shutter inside the lenses? Im always intrigued when someone brings it up but never handled one.

Hi, the Fuji has no focal plane shutter, the shutter is only of the leaf kind and is (of course) built in the lenses, the choice of Fuji for me (I used to use Sinar P2 before that) was because the image area (circle) of the lenses is ideal for use with respect to the image area of MFDBs and because the expenses where much less... With the Fuji, one needs only a cable to do multishot, with a view camera, one needs digital lenses with electronic control of the leaf shutter built in and the command mechanism that accompanies it... The drawbacks with the Fuji is that one can't use "real" WA lenses with respect to an MFDB's image circle (the wider lens is "only" 50mm), the bulk of it and that there is no geared movements as to be "dead accurate" when using movements (which costs in time)... The advantages are the fact that the camera is a DSLR one, the image quality is superb, the revolving back (the image circle of the lenses is an 7.6x7.6cm "square" one) and of course that one who uses an MFDB platform like the Contax for his MFDBs can use an inexpensive (revolving) adapter plate and thus be able to use his backs on the Fuji too without any conversion by doing this, he also adds leaf shutter capability in his system which a camera like Contax doesn't provide.

Fuji is difficult to use in multishot mode with MFDBs because of the "noisy" huge mirror that can't be locked up for the whole multishot sequence, but there are ways to work around this problem and if one does, the results are both rewarding and can be compared with any image coming from any other view camera with the best of digital lenses at only a (very small) fraction of the respective cost. Further more, in the rare case that one may need to have a "real" WA image shot with it, he may use 120 film, scan it with a Nikon coolscan 9000 or using his multishot back with Kaiser lightbox (I do both) and do it... The question (IMO) clearly is whether one is prepared to forward equipment as to perform a task, or if he follows the "skills path" which happens to be much more cost effective too... I happen to belong in the second division and that is more a decision rather than a cost saving path... I simply believe that today's photography has nothing to be jealous off than what photographers where doing 50 years ago and thus (although I follow the "progress" info), I don't trust much the (expensive) solutions that are proposed from the makers these days, I rather prefer to stick with equipment I already own and try to optimize its use to achive the best possible results at the minimum of cost. It is more a political choice that makes me feel good rather than having to "believe in a different God" all the time....
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yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2015, 11:15:47 am »

Thanks for your reply. In which case Fuji 680 is not for me then.

I use a lot of LF antique brass lenses with Sinar P and Sinar Copal shutter (with either 4x5 film or polaroid), which gives me a lot of pleasure. I'm thinking of bringing them to digital age, more out of curiosity rather than practicality. If Fuji had focal plane shutter then it had potential to replace the Sinar nicely. However now I will look at finding an adapter to fit DB back on Sinar P. What is your recommendation? Apologise for slightly out of topic, but its also about extended use of Contax digital back ;-)

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Theodoros

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2015, 11:32:35 am »

Thanks for your reply. In which case Fuji 680 is not for me then.

I use a lot of LF antique brass lenses with Sinar P and Sinar Copal shutter (with either 4x5 film or polaroid), which gives me a lot of pleasure. I'm thinking of bringing them to digital age, more out of curiosity rather than practicality. If Fuji had focal plane shutter then it had potential to replace the Sinar nicely. However now I will look at finding an adapter to fit DB back on Sinar P. What is your recommendation? Apologise for slightly out of topic, but its also about extended use of Contax digital back ;-)


I agree with you... If one doesn't need multishot or other feature that requires the use of "digital lenses" to stick with the "traditional" path... However, it all depends on what one needs... As for recommendations, my suggestions (IMO) would be the same as the ones made for the O/P a couple of comments back... "Chose a back that is good with movements"... As for sliding rear standard adapter, I would go for one from China.
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Bo Dez

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2015, 11:25:49 am »

I am seriously considering dumping my Leica M kit with Noctilux and Summilux's for a Contax 645 and P65+ kit. I feel a bit edgy about it though given that, for example, my 75mm Summilux has almost doubled in value in 3 years.

The things is, I really need the resolution and the Contax 645 and 80mm will give a similar look to my current outfit, which is very important, but with far more detail and output size. I was hoping Leica would play ball in the resolution game but it seems they are asleep at the wheel, or want you to buy the S, which I have no interest in at all. It's so frustrating because I love the Leica kit so much and it's look is really something I love but I need more in resolution and MFD  look and image quality (one current job needs 4 meter prints)

My concerns are that medium format value will plummet soon and I will be left with yet another dead value kit (i have several: 4x5, mamiya rz, hblad V) when some of my Leica kit is almost as good as keeping the money in a bank. I wish I could afford to keep the Leica kit but it has to go for me to afford the MFD. I have been using the Leica M kit and hiring the Phase One kit (frequently) for jobs I needed it, but I have more and more jobs needing the res and I also need to remain competitive and step things up all round.

So I'm torn between the two, what would you do?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 11:31:39 am by Bo Dez »
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