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Author Topic: Some Contax 645 advice?  (Read 21214 times)

D Fuller

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Some Contax 645 advice?
« on: June 10, 2015, 11:15:57 pm »

Hi. I've been lurking around here for a while, but it's time to ask for some opinions. (I've noticed an abundance of those here... :-)

I have a much-loved Contax system that hasn't been seeing much use for a few years, but it's my favorite camera ever, and I own all the lenses except the 350. I occasionally rent a Phase back for it when it's right for a client, and occasionally run a roll of film through it for fun. But recently I spent a week with the excellent IQ250 back on it. The combination of 50MP and the Contax Zeiss glass was so enchanting I started thinking about purchasing a back for the system.

Since this is not really a purchase justified by business, I've been looking hard at a refurbished P65+. Not quite as much DR as the IQ250, but lots of resolution, and its full frame, and I understand that the IQ would be the same as the IQ160/260 series (though certain features would be missing.) Longer exposure would be nice, but rarely, and I have Nikons for that. Abnd the price of the P65+ is within reach. All good. Now Phase One has announced that they are not going to support Contax once current stocks are sold. (Since they own Leaf, is the writing on that wall too?) 

Whadya think? Am I nuts? Should I:

1. Buy a P65+ and not look back, or...
2. Forget the whole thing and occasionally rent a back if I have a paying gig, or...
3. Dump all the Contax stuff on EBay and buy a Pentax 645z system, or...
4. Forget all this MF nonsense and buy the new Sony...?
5. Or none of the above--here's a better idea...

Any words of wisdom?



« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 08:43:58 am by D Fuller »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 11:40:54 pm »

The most important question here is what do you love about the Contax and what do you not love?

There's no right or wrong question here. But the answer greatly informs whether a Sony or Pentax will be a substitute.

D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 12:08:39 am »

The most important question here is what do you love about the Contax and what do you not love?

There's no right or wrong question here. But the answer greatly informs whether a Sony or Pentax will be a substitute.

I love a lot about the Contax, but two things stand out in my mind: the feel of the camera and the lenses. No camera has ever felt so balanced in my hands. I'm always surprised by how good the thing feels in my hands when I take it out. And no set of lenses I've used (other than Master Primes for motion) have ever seemed so reliably good across the range. But especially the 35mm, the 140mm, and the astonishing 120mm macro.

And the viewfinder is a treat.

There's not much I don't like. I'd like leaf shutters, but for that I'd have to find a king to ransome.
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lowep

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 12:56:03 am »

It´s a legacy camera that runs good and doesn´t cost much, so why not just buy a legacy db that also runs good and doesn´t cost much and enjoy it until you also become a legacy photographer unless you prefer making photos with a shoe box like the Pentax or a computer like the Sony or you win the lottery?
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 08:17:28 am »

Hm.. I photograph people mostly and don't have any issues with the p65+ Also have p25+ a bit slow frame rate for this kind of job, but this is very personal feeling .. I would say the camera is very nice, focus is critical with hi-res backs (I never rely on AF, just manual). Manual focus rings on the lenses are not comfortable enough for my taste. No leaf shutter. Even with these obstructions I prefer the camera over my D800E. Film back is a good option also.

yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 08:36:58 am »

I didnt say there are "issues" with P65+, but if you shoot fashion/editorial, faster frame rate, focus masks and ability to zoom in 100% of IQ140 might worth the trade off for me. Of course I wish I have the money for IQ160.
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yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 08:38:05 am »

Also agree on P25+ being quite slow/not responsive enough for this kind of work. If budget is priority get a P21+
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 08:49:32 am »

I didnt say there are "issues" with P65+, but if you shoot fashion/editorial, faster frame rate, focus masks and ability to zoom in 100% of IQ140 might worth the trade off for me. Of course I wish I have the money for IQ160.
You may be right.. I didn't tried these IQ backs yet, but if the focus mask is the same as in Capture One.. I don't need it (personally). The fast 100% zoom is enough.

D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 08:50:36 am »

It´s a legacy camera that runs good and doesn´t cost much, so why not just buy a legacy db that also runs good and doesn´t cost much and enjoy it until you also become a legacy photographer unless you prefer making photos with a shoe box like the Pentax or a computer like the Sony or you win the lottery?

LOL! Maybe I already am a legacy photographer...

This sounds a lot like what I've been thinking. And if a legacy db can deliver on image quality, it's a pretty compelling value proposition.
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yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 08:53:16 am »

You may be right.. I didn't tried these IQ backs yet, but if the focus mask is the same as in Capture One.. I don't need it (personally). The fast 100% zoom is enough.

One tip if you get IQ140, get Nikon eyepiece DK-17M, it fits Contax and you have full frame view finder again :-)
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 09:08:19 am »

One tip if you get IQ140, get Nikon eyepiece DK-17M, it fits Contax and you have full frame view finder again :-)
Thanks! Looks promising. Just curious - is this magnifier covers full 6x4.5 frame? I'm asking because I'm a little freak about crop factors. Just in my priority list, sensor size is on top, not DR or resolution, just sensor size.
Sorry for the off topic.

D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 09:11:49 am »


I recently went through an exact struggle like you...

The choice finally come down to IQ140 or P65. They are available second hand/refurbished for roughly the same price. Pros and cons have been discussed many times on these board, but summary of my perspective, I would say if you are more a "people" shooter, then get the IQ140, and if you are more a landscape shooter, get the P65. I wish there were IQ145, that would have been perfect ..

Hm.. I photograph people mostly and don't have any issues with the p65+ ... Manual focus rings on the lenses are not comfortable enough for my taste. No leaf shutter. Even with these obstructions I prefer the camera over my D800E. Film back is a good option also.

I didnt say there are "issues" with P65+, but if you shoot fashion/editorial, faster frame rate, focus masks and ability to zoom in 100% of IQ140 might worth the trade off for me. Of course I wish I have the money for IQ160.

So it's heartening that no one has said I'm just nuts to put money into a camera system that's 10 years past its sell-by date.

If I decide to go ahead, the choice between the IQ140 and the 65+ is worth looking at. The interface on the rented IQ250 was very nice--especially the ability to go to 1-1 when untethered. But I did miss having the full frame on the wider lenses. And nothing wider is going to be made for Contax, so that's a consideration. I'm trying to arrange a side-by-side between the IQ250 (with which recently I'm familiar) and the P65+ (which is a price I can justify--or rationalize) to see if the workflow considerations get in the way, and to see how the IQ compares.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 06:13:26 am by D Fuller »
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 09:32:15 am »

So it's heartening that no one has said I'm just nuts to put money into a camera system that's 10 years past its sell-by date.

If I decide to go ahead, the choice between the IQ140 and the 64+ is worth looking at. The interface on the rented IQ250 was very nice--especially the ability to go to 1-1 when untethered. But I did miss having the full frame on the wider lenses. And nothing wider is going to be made for Contax, so that's a consideration. I'm trying to arrange a side-by-side between the IQ250 (with which recently I'm familiar) and the P65+ (which is a price I can justify--or rationalize) to see if the workflow considerations get in the way, and to see how the IQ compares.


Sorry, can't help with this, for the reason I'v mentioned above.. Personally I never considered to bye a back with smaller chip than p25, which have a crop factor about 1.1 according PhaseOne specs.

yashima

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 09:49:45 am »

Thanks! Looks promising. Just curious - is this magnifier covers full 6x4.5 frame? I'm asking because I'm a little freak about crop factors. Just in my priority list, sensor size is on top, not DR or resolution, just sensor size.
Sorry for the off topic.

Yes it covers full frame as well. Viewfinder is one of my top priority, so that really helps. If you think about IQ140 vs P65, image rendering at pixel level is exactly the same, sensor size really only manifests in resolution and a little bit of DOF, which Contax has abundance of.

By the way, read somehwere that you also have the Maxwell Hi-lux screen, how much is it and what is turn around time? This is also an excellent recommendation to OP (we are not going off topic!)
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 10:09:54 am »

Yes it covers full frame as well. Viewfinder is one of my top priority, so that really helps. If you think about IQ140 vs P65, image rendering at pixel level is exactly the same, sensor size really only manifests in resolution and a little bit of DOF, which Contax has abundance of.

By the way, read somehwere that you also have the Maxwell Hi-lux screen, how much is it and what is turn around time? This is also an excellent recommendation to OP (we are not going off topic!)
Yes I have one, and will recommend it. First I contacted with mr. Maxwell and we discussed about few personal preferences. Be careful it's take time, but it's very pleasant to talk with person like him. Then I bought new focusing screen from ebay and arranged the shipping directly to Maxwell's address. When it was ready, he shipped to my address. All the process took about a 3-4 weeks, keep in mind I'm in Bulgaria - not so close to USA. The manufacture process took if I remember correctly about a week or so. The price for Maxwell's wonder I don't remember, but it shouldn't be more than 300$..

Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2015, 10:41:23 am »

..about the sensor size.. The topic is well discussed around and for me most important is field of view. I want exactly the same Field of View from my lenses as they expected to provide for the given format. I don/t want to make a step backward just to be able to frame and simultaneously loosing some physical properties of the given lens.

bcooter

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2015, 11:39:46 am »

What a camera like the contax does is feel special, or feel better in the hand, with a quality feel.   Quality always feels nice and for 1/5 the price of the newer cameras, it's a steal.

At times long cameras like the Contax, Hasselblad and Phase just work differently, i.e. slower  than a a flat camera like a 35mm dlsr, a leica S or even a pentax 645 which is almost a flat camera.  

Now I love the contax have 5, but rarely use it because of the Leica S2 and if I was buying a digital back for my contax I wouldn't spend past a p30+, never an IQ anything, given how I use cameras.

The only issue with the contax is the viewfinder with a prism seems small, (I've gotten use to it) with the wlf it is huge.   No big deal either way and at least you can manually focus with it.
Issue 2 is you must polish all of the contacts, lens, prism, body and back before a week long shoot (though everything should be cleaned on every camera anyway).

To me the Leica doesn't have the sharpness of the p30+ but it's a slightly faster camera to work, and build like a solid piece of billet, but it really does very little the contax won't.

Firstly because a p30 or p30+ will have more sharpness and detail with the contax zeiss lenses than you'll ever need at any size reproduction (if your skilled in post production) and has microlenses which seems to smooth out some of the zeiss lens contrast.

The lcd is limited, but if you work professionally you will be or should be good enough where that won't bother you and if you work for clients your going to tether anyway.

If you really need 35mm dslr type features and shooting experience buy a pentax, but it's a much different camera than a contax and nothing is sharper than the contax zeiss lenses.  Their almost too sharp.

The DF+ I haven't held one, but it's new, not tested and I am positive won't do enough to justify the price of $40,000 something for a camera, cmos back and one lens.  No still camera today is worth $40,000.

In fact and it's all been said before, but I hear all of this stuff about precision alignment, space aged materials, (i.e. sales talk)  and I've never had a focusing issue with a contax and I've owner 4 different backs for mine.

You just have to be careful about keeping the focusing screen flat and never use the phase mask that goes under the focusing screen because it slightly moves the screen up and throws off the alignment, but that's not on contax it's on phase.

In regards to central shutter lenses, you can freeze action a lot easier with short duration flash than with lens shutters.  

As you move up line, if central shutters are a must you can buy a demo leica S2 for less  than 8 grand and put on any H or  contax lens (without cs) with full focus functionality with the leica adapters.  

Also once you buy into any phase camera system it takes a strong will to withstand the constant marketing of move up, move up, spend more, trade in,  you'll here "be a better photographer if you spend more if not your an okay photographer" .  .  . but that's all talk, not images.

Now you'll hear a lot about a p30 being a "cropped" camera and that's just more negativity, but it's really not much different in size than most medium format sensors.  A p45 for examples has around a 1.14 crop a p30+ a 1.24 crop.  Your just splitting hairs.

It's funny you never hear any negativity about the cmos almost 645 cameras that are a 1.3 crop so I wouldn't worry about it.

You'll also hear about "end of life" and "what if it breaks?"   Well anyone that shoots for a living needs a backup so try paying for two phase xf cameras and backs vs. a contax and a p30+.   Scenario one (new phase one w/ backup is the price of a BMW 7 series, scenario 2 (contax) is a used 3 series and both will work virtually the same.

It's up to you, your money, your life, but if the newest and most advance gets you hot then sony just announced an amazing 42 mpx still camera that shoot 4k video, track focuses and has on sensor focusing and stabilization for $3,200.    Now that's advanced tech, but much more computer than camera.

p30+ Contax, 80mm lens f.2.8, 125th second,  iso 200, 575 watt HMI


Leica S2, 640 iso, 1/30th second, F4, Contax 55mm lens, tungsten and window light mixed.


I could show more but this should give an idea of the camera's use.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 02:25:40 pm by bcooter »
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Manoli

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2015, 01:25:29 pm »

... if the newest and most advance gets you hot then sony just announced an amazing 42 mpx still camera that shoot 4k video, track focuses and has on sensor focusing and stabilization for $3,200.    Now that's advanced tech, but much more computer than camera.

Coots, now you're being a naughty boy!
You know that Sony announcement made you blink twice ..
It's enough camera, with the right lenses, that you don't even think computer.
Customise it and you'll only need to go into the menu for tethering (with C1Pro) ...


Edit:
BTW, luv that first shot - evocative mood.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 01:27:34 pm by Manoli »
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Dragomir Spassov

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2015, 01:32:47 pm »

So it's clear we can't help to the author of the tread, let then share some Contax's output..

P65+

D Fuller

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Re: Some Contax 645 advice?
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2015, 02:41:24 pm »

So it's clear we can't help to the author of the tread, let then share some Contax's output..

P65+

Oh, youy've helped a lot. And this image does as well. Lovely. Is this the 140mm?
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