Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator  (Read 5138 times)

Brad P

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 258

I am about to start mounting a large commercial run of personal photo prints on 310g cotton rag paper to Dibond (30x40" and 20x30") with a 44" Drytac cold laminator.   I am at the end of an exhaustive Internet research escapade, and after that believe that the longest lasting, highest quality mounting film choices available are either DryTac MultiTac or Neschen Gudy 831 (rebranded Seal Print Mount 831 in the U.S.)..

Anyone with a view on either film, or the direction I'm headed?  

I know this ain't technically archival, but am looking for the longest lasting thing for floating presentation of large prints that could also be put under glazing if a buyer wanted to.  I do not plan on face mounting (this run) and will likely give the pigment ink surface a light protective spray. I am aware of the fragility of the surface and would sell with appropriate precautions (including a label on the back).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 02:40:17 pm by Brad P »
Logged

stcstc31

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 03:15:47 am »

ie with no glass??

you realise the longevity of the print will fail before the mount film?


have a look at the longevity of say HFA photorag as a bare print, which is kinda what you doing, http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ say 30 years or so with epson k3 inkset


and now take into account that your customers are bound to hand in the wrong type of place, and maybe half that number? and your getting into the realms of not very long at all

and thats ignoring the fact that when the kids in the house come along with sticky fingers and touch the print
Logged
Stephen Crozier

www.360-dpi.com

Brad P

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 258
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2015, 03:33:54 am »

Thanks Steven - any view on the two mounting adhesives?

Yes, no glass.  All customers as a practical matter live thousands of miles away and can frame at home cheaper with their own choice of materials (I would recommend museum glass or optium).  Or if they prefer as I do personally hang it floating in a safer place but understand that it's become a consumable, subject to damage and degradation.  The paper and inks otherwise have some of the very highest Wilhelm ratings btw and there would likely be a light coat of quality uv protective spray to help, but not enough to destroy the feeling of the paper (eg as a roller does).
Logged

stcstc31

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2015, 04:01:18 am »

drytac products would be my go to

Logged
Stephen Crozier

www.360-dpi.com

disneytoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 373
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 05:20:14 am »

After much research and discusion with drytacs Reginal Sales manager I'm going with MultiTac. After he explained the benefits of each of their films, Multitac seems to be the go to adhesive.
Logged

Brad P

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 258
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 02:36:34 pm »

Thanks Disneytoy and Stephen -

Multitac actually is the right DryTac product for large prints so I'll amend the question.  Also, Neschen Gudy 831 is rebranded in the U.S. as "Print Mount 831".

The 831 product is advertised as meeting the requirements of ISO 14523 (accelerated aging) and is more expensive (maybe for good reason?) while the DryTac product is not.  Does anyone reading this have experience with Seal Print Mount 831 (or Neschen Gudy 831) who can comment?
Logged

Geraldo Garcia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 470
    • Personal blog
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 04:26:47 pm »

Does anyone reading this have experience with Seal Print Mount 831 (or Neschen Gudy 831) who can comment?

The 831 is the cold mounting adhesive of choice according to some preservation specialists and is quite expensive indeed.
My experience with it is relatively recent (a couple of years), so I cannot tell anything about how it ages from my personal experience.

The adhesive is quite strong and the long fiber paper base is slightly textured, so it can actually be a problem if you want to mount a smooth glossy paper to a smooth substrate (like dibond). The texture of the paper base may cause the "orange peel" effect on the on the smooth glossy surface of the paper. But for matte and/or textured paper it is not an issue.

Regards.
Logged

Brad P

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 258
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 04:40:20 pm »

Thanks very much Geraldo.  Your view is consistent with what little I found on the Internet. I will be using thick  310g Canson rag photographique and Platine. I imagine that shouldn't be a problem then, right?  The Platine is coated with baryta, but is very lightly textured with a cotton rag base.  

Is there a better substrate with these combos than dibond, or is it just an issue with glossy paper?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 04:43:31 pm by Brad P »
Logged

Geraldo Garcia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 470
    • Personal blog
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 06:12:19 pm »

Platine is not extremely glossy and already has a subtle texture, so it wont be a problem. Neither will any matte paper. Smooth, glossy and not so thick RC papers are the problem, but for this class of paper 831 is an overkill IMHO. Better o use a less expensive adhesive with a smooth PET or Polyester base.

Regards.
Logged

Richard.Wills

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 306
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 06:13:00 pm »

A couple of brief thoughts.

Dibond is lovely -rigid and flat, and the back is a piano gloss, which has its own wow factor, but (the real stuff) is expensive. If your mounting technique is not bullet proof (or the gremlins are in town), then any mistakes you make in applying adhesive to the ACM can leave you with more or less unusable substrates. The (hideously expensive) Drytac Facemount adhesive has the advantage that if you muck up the substrate coating, you can peel the adhesive off before it's cured, then clean up the substrate with IPA, and try again. I've had almost* no success cleaning off any of the self-wound adhesives from ACM.

If you're using an SW adhesive, then you can test in advance that the rollers are set up true, by applying a length of the adhesive to the release film of the DiBond. Means you sacrifice some adhesive, but gives confidence that the laminator is running good.

Platine Rag is one of those papers which fracture when cut - I don't offer borderless mounted platine prints, as they almost always exhibit tares in the edge. If anyone has any suggestion of how to cleanly trim them down, I'd love to hear details.
Having said that, it is sufficiently robust, soft and forgiving, that minor flaws in the material prep probably won't show. Major flaws such as bubbles and waves probably will.


* you can clean off adhesives such as mediatac using methyl ethyl ketone, but it is _Truly_Evil_Stuff_. Seems to melt many plastics, as well as vinyl and butyl rubber gloves.
You can also make a reasonable cleaning job using IsoPropyl Alcohol, using the soak, scrape, soak wipe, soak wipe process. Not fun at all on a large sheet of substrate, and normally reserved for Friday night / weekend work (when you can't get any more clean material delivered until Monday)
Logged

stcstc31

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 03:03:58 am »

i clean selfwound off all the time, using a a signage degreaser

it softens the adhesive to a goo and then i scrape with plastic scraper and then clean with ipa


Logged
Stephen Crozier

www.360-dpi.com

Richard.Wills

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 306
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2015, 04:16:46 am »

Details please Stephen - this would be a very useful addition to the chemical store!
Logged

stcstc31

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 05:01:44 am »

this is the one i am using at the moment

http://www.signanddigital.com/tools/sott-right-off-adhesive-remover.html


its oily greasy messy. but works


like i say need to let it soak for few mins, then basically scrape the panel

then clean whats left with ipa

have sometimes had to apply twice etc

Logged
Stephen Crozier

www.360-dpi.com

Richard.Wills

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 306
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Film for Large Print Mounting to Dibond with Pressure Laminator
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 06:42:27 am »

Thank you - will pick some up - always useful to have another weapon in the arsenal.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up