jpg export colour problem

[RobinFaichney]

I just noticed a problem when exporting to jpg from LR CC.

So far I've been concentrating on one colour in one image, I'm under some time pressure and decided to seek help before looking at others.

It's a shade of blue that looks much duller in the jpg than the original (a dng with many colour-related adjustments). I'm talking about prints, all directly from LR, haven't really looked at them side by side on screen. (I have a Colormunki Photo so could measure the difference if that might help.)

The jpg quality is 100 (max), there's no resizing or sharpening. It's the same in all three colour spaces. The paper and all the print settings are identical and there are no blocked nozzles or other printer issues. Any ideas?

[Simon Garrett]

I'm afraid I've questions but not answers at this stage, as I don't fully understand your issue.

• You mention the original is a dng - do you mean a raw image?  How did you create the dng?  From what camera?
• How did you create each of the prints?
• What type of monitor are you using?  I'm assuming it's calibrated and profiled?
• What do you mean by "all three colour cpaces"?  Do you mean exporting to sRGB, Adobe RGB and ProPhoto RGB?

Edited to clarify after re-reading what you said:

You say you're printing directly from LR.  Not sure what you mean about colours different from the original.  You're printing the original dng, then exporting a jpeg, then re-importing the jpeg and printing that?

Sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding what you've said!

[RobinFaichney]

You're printing the original dng, then exporting a jpeg, then re-importing the jpeg and printing that?

Yes, sorry that wasn't clearer. Though the dng has been adjusted in Develop so not original in that sense. This is probably not an ideal workflow but it involves also PS, and I'm just finding my way around the LR/PS combo. (This problem occurs when PS is NOT in the chain, it can safely be ignored.)

What do you mean by "all three colour cpaces"?  Do you mean exporting to sRGB, Adobe RGB and ProPhoto RGB?

Yes.

You mention the original is a dng - do you mean a raw image?  How did you create the dng?  From what camera?

Raw, yes, camera Canon 5Dii, dng conversion during import.

I'm guessing the other two questions are now irrelevant. (I think that last one above is too, actually, but I'm hopefully erring on the right side by answering it.)

[Tim Lookingbill]

It's a shade of blue that looks much duller in the jpg than the original (a dng with many colour-related adjustments). I'm talking about prints, all directly from LR, haven't really looked at them side by side on screen. (I have a Colormunki Photo so could measure the difference if that might help.)

jpg vs dng original Raw vs prints?

How are we to sort out what you mean by which blue is duller or different from the source DNG?

Do you have Soft Proof on in LR when viewing the DNG Raw when exporting to jpg? If so what's it set to?

Better yet, set Soft Proof in LR to ProPhotoRGB working space. What are the RGB number readouts of the blue in question? Does it change appearance after changing Soft Proof output space?

[James R]

sRGB colors will look "duller" than the default LR ProPhoto RGB, but look correct when viewed on a website.  I believe you only can print from LR in ProPhoto.  I don't see where you can change color spaces in LR.  Different color issues between print and monitor tend to come from using a monitor that is not recently calibrated, or user error in the printing process.  Errors such as allowing the printer to manage color, selecting the wrong color profile for the type of paper being used, using the wrong media type, etc. 

So, did you have problems printing from LR using version 5.7?

[RobinFaichney]

jpg vs dng original Raw vs prints?

Sorry, no. Print from dng original vs prints from jpg.

[RobinFaichney]

sRGB colors will look "duller" than the default LR ProPhoto RGB, but look correct when viewed on a website.  I believe you only can print from LR in ProPhoto.  I don't see where you can change color spaces in LR.

On export (see thread title).

Different color issues between print and monitor tend to come from using a monitor that is not recently calibrated, or user error in the printing process.  Errors such as allowing the printer to manage color, selecting the wrong color profile for the type of paper being used, using the wrong media type, etc.

These issues are between print and print, and printer, paper and all settings are the same.

So, did you have problems printing from LR using version 5.7?

No

I've now found an Adobe forum thread that looks to be about the same issue: Help! Colors dulling out after exporting!

[Simon Garrett]

The first post in the Adobe forum thread is not about printing, if I read it right.  It is about the appearance of images on screen after export, not appearance as printed.  

You mention

Print from dng original vs prints from jpg

If I understand you correctly, you're printing the DNG version from Lightroom.  Then you're exporting to jpeg, reimporting to Lightroom, and then printing the imported jpeg from Lightroom?  Have I got that right?

That should not result in any difference in colour except where the jpeg is in sRGB and some colours are out of gamut for sRGB (that is, highly saturated greens, cyans and green-yellows).  

[RobinFaichney]

The first post in the Adobe forum post is not about printing, if I read it right.  It is about the appearance of images on screen after export, not appearance as printed.

Yes, but appearance on screen and in print are not entirely unrelated, surely?

Later: I now see the web is involved in the other case, which opens another can of worms.

If I understand you correctly, you're printing the DNG version from Lightroom.  Then you're exporting to jpeg, reimporting to Lightroom, and then printing the imported jpeg from Lightroom?  Have I got that right?

Yes

That should not result in any difference in colour except where the jpeg is in sRGB and some colours are out of gamut for sRGB (that is, highly saturated greens, cyans and green-yellows).  

Indeed. The problem is that, in all three colour spaces available in the export dialogue, and I believe no out of gamut colours anyway, there is a difference.

[Simon Garrett]

Just narrowing it down, step by step: when you export to jpeg and then re-import the jpegs, does the original DNG and the re-imported jpegs look the same in Lightroom (on a monitor)?

[RobinFaichney]

Just narrowing it down, step by step: when you export to jpeg and then re-import the jpegs, does the original DNG and the re-imported jpegs look the same in Lightroom (on a monitor)?

On screen the differences don't jump out at me, but looking at the area that does when comparing prints, the RGB% values under the mouse pointer in the Develop module are

dng 25 44.5 64.6
jpg 38 45.5 64.5

so by far the biggest difference is in the R component. The others could easily be due to natural variation, not comparing the exact same pixel.

I've now had a chance to look at quite a few prints made recently using the same workflow (plus a little PS work on the jpgs), and only this one image is affected.

Later: thought I had a way around this but it appears not. Up to now I've been exporting to jpg, editing in PS, importing the result to LR and printing. I just tried the Edit In route, whereby PS produces a tiff that's automatically imported to LR, and I'm seeing the exact same problem!   (All I'm doing in PS is using Image Size to change the aspect ratio slightly. And it happens also when PS is not in the loop.)