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Author Topic: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?  (Read 53647 times)

kers

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2015, 08:06:15 am »

LR is the one product that is available stand alone and as a CC version.
Both update strategies are in conflict.
That said, an update to a 2015 ACR/LR raw engine could be expected. I like the 2012 method but it has some problems with false detail and moiré IMO. (On the other hand it is still my preferred raw engine despite the raves about Capture one 8 and Iridient developer 3.)
Also it does not make sense that version 6 seems to be so buggy. And GPU support has always been a bit of a mess with Adobe; they can learn from others like the maker of ptGUI panosoftware in that respect.

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ButchM

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2015, 11:49:56 am »

Why does it matter to you who exactly implemented the features as long as if they get into Lightroom?

Yes, Hans spelled it out quite clearly.

If the bulk of new features and improvements actually come from the ACR Team ... exactly what did the Lightroom Team bring to the party for Lr 6? It's an honest question. As you can see from the responses, Hans (and myself) are not the only Lightroom users who have considered this question.

While we can see that Facial Recognition was added to Library, the return of multiple audio tracks (which has taken four full version cycles to get back) and a rudimentary pan and zoom feature in the Slideshow module and finally an update in the Web module (which basically hasn't seen much attention since v1) to replace the antiquated and obsolete Flash galleries. In the time it took to get these simple additions to modules that have been included in Lr since Day One ... Adobe had time to develop and add Maps, Books allowing multiple original modules to languish for several version cycles before addressing the finer details ...

This is the third full version cycle for Lightroom and we still can't do something so simple as create custom page sizes, margins and bleeds. Yet Adobe expects us all to pay them for such incredible progress and advancements.

For me, while I am not ungrateful for what has been offered. Collectively, if you look at the modules other than Develop ... what have been the goals and actual accomplishments of the Lr team itself?  I'm not blaming the individual engineers that crunch the code ... but the management and accounting "teams" that dictate what the engineers are assigned to work on. Sometimes it seems as though they utilize a dartboard and a blindfold to establish their goals for module development and refinement.

As long as Adobe includes these other modules, I would like to see them offer the same level of enthusiasm and attention to detail in ALL the modules, not just the favorites. If Lightroom is to be a true workflow solution ... it would be nice if they would actually complete a current project before adding new features.
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Schewe

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2015, 03:40:57 pm »

If the bulk of new features and improvements actually come from the ACR Team ... exactly what did the Lightroom Team bring to the party for Lr 6? It's an honest question. As you can see from the responses, Hans (and myself) are not the only Lightroom users who have considered this question.

There is a reason why the LR "Team" works differently than the "ACR Team" and it's because Thomas Knoll pretty much decides what the ACR engineers work. On the LR Team it's really the product managers and not the engineers that decide what's gonna go into LR.

I agree that more features and functionality should go into LR. In the past there were strong individuals who drove LR engineering but there isn't the same kind of leadership now :~(
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digitaldog

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2015, 03:48:42 pm »

In the past there were strong individuals who drove LR engineering but there isn't the same kind of leadership now :~(
Agreed and that's a huge concern for me! No one's really driving this ship forward IMHO.
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ButchM

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2015, 04:03:04 pm »

There is a reason why the LR "Team" works differently than the "ACR Team" and it's because Thomas Knoll pretty much decides what the ACR engineers work.

That's quite evident because we have seen little difference in the pace or level of attention to detail when it comes to ACR or the Develop module. It may not be perfect, but development marches on as we are accustomed to seeing.

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I agree that more features and functionality should go into LR. In the past there were strong individuals who drove LR engineering but there isn't the same kind of leadership now :~(

That revelation is both revealing and concerning. Since the very first consideration of "Shadowland" ... Lightroom was to always be much more than a RAW converter with a different UI and a dabbling of database oriented organizational options ...

I like to refer to the Print module as a good example. We have not seen much growth and expansion there. Mainly because whoever it was that created the actual product, as well as those supervising the project did a wonderful job. There really is little that module needs that could make it even marginally better ... though there are a few items that could be perfected further ... of which do seem to come at a glacial pace.

Then compare to how they painted themselves into a Blurb-only corner with the Book module ... One has to wonder if someone literally fell asleep at the wheel.

This attitude doesn't bode well for the future, especially noting the lack of a direct workflow solution competitor for Lightroom.
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digitaldog

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2015, 04:11:50 pm »

We have not seen much growth and expansion there. Mainly because whoever it was that created the actual product, as well as those supervising the project did a wonderful job. There really is little that module needs that could make it even marginally better ... though there are a few items that could be perfected further ... of which do seem to come at a glacial pace.
I think the team could come up with a number of useful additions to the Print Module which is today still worth the price of admission IMHO. I recall the steep pricing for ImagePrint, much of that functionality now built in LR.
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Then compare to how they painted themselves into a Blurb-only corner with the Book module ... One has to wonder if someone literally fell asleep at the wheel.
Adobe clearly didn't see how large a task this was going to be and just passed this off to Blurb which was a mistake. They pretty much took the opposite route that Apple did with iPhoto and Aperture by taking full control over the print process from start to finish.
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Robert-Peter Westphal

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2015, 04:19:13 pm »

In my opinion he problem with Lightroom began when it was included into the CC suite. Formerly it was a standalone product which made money for Adobe, now it is just an add on to Photoshop which they will not have to take that much care on.

Robert
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Schewe

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2015, 04:24:25 pm »

In my opinion he problem with Lightroom began when it was included into the CC suite. Formerly it was a standalone product which made money for Adobe, now it is just an add on to Photoshop which they will not have to take that much care on.

The hole in that theory is of course that LR 6 is still selling as a perpetual license. That and the fact that from an engineering standpoint the subscription model allows for more rapid development by engineering. It's just that those new features are slow coming.
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Rhossydd

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2015, 04:28:37 pm »

The hole in that theory is of course that LR 6 is still selling as a perpetual license.
There seemed to be a lot of people having trouble upgrading the perpetual licence this time. Adobe aren't exactly extolling the perpetual licence option any more.
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That and the fact that from an engineering standpoint the subscription model allows for more rapid development by engineering. It's just that those new features are slow coming.
That doesn't make much sense really, does it ?
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digitaldog

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2015, 04:40:28 pm »

There seemed to be a lot of people having trouble upgrading the perpetual licence this time. Adobe aren't exactly extolling the perpetual licence option any more.That doesn't make much sense really, does it ?
They certainly didn't make it as easy or as discoverable as they could of, agreed.
As for Jeff's comments about speed of development, it's entirely possible considering that they (Adobe) don't have to roll out multiple new features at once, on a regular (about 18 month) cycle for one. They certainly don't have to time this with other products in the CC suite (that must have been a nightmare, like training cats to swim).
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ButchM

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2015, 04:45:58 pm »


... now it is just an add on to Photoshop which they will not have to take that much care on.

That is purely an "Eye of the Beholder" ... assertion. I have a feeling there are a significant number of Lr users subscribing to the CC Photography Package that relate to Ps as the "add on" application.
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Simon Garrett

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2015, 03:38:45 am »

That is purely an "Eye of the Beholder" ... assertion. I have a feeling there are a significant number of Lr users subscribing to the CC Photography Package that relate to Ps as the "add on" application.

True for me.  I use LR as my desktop and PS only on the minority of images (5-10%) for which I need more post processing that LR can do. 

However, whether Adobe regard LR as the add-on I can't say!
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davidedric

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2015, 04:57:01 am »

There must always be a trade off in a parametric editor between functionality and performance (I am thinking about the Develop module).   Obviously where the balance sits is hardware dependent, but as I hear comments about sluggish behaviour in Lr6/CC2015 I wonder whether that is also influencing what features are added.  I have stayed on subscription 5.7 for now - for my use there is no compelling reason to upgrade.

Dave
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kers

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2015, 07:28:31 am »

Now that LR6 has landed and did not bring much on the table, it could mean the real improvements may come to the CC version making the CC subscription more attractive.
That could be a managers decision..
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Pieter Kers
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pegelli

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2015, 07:38:35 am »

Now that LR6 has landed and did not bring much on the table, it could mean the real improvements may come to the CC version making the CC subscription more attractive.
That could be a managers decision..
I know past performance is not a guarantee for the future, but when LR 5 was part of the subscription how many improvements were made to that version that were not implemented in the perpetual license version?
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ihv

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2015, 08:29:23 am »

I wouldn't mind if more regular updates happen to the CC version and the same components are sold separately to perpetual license owners.

Provided I'm not forced to buy some mumbo-jumbo stuff to get a useful addition.
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Jimbo57

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2015, 11:00:20 am »

...... now it [LR] is just an add on to Photoshop which they will not have to take that much care on.

Robert

What an interesting way of seeing it.

For me it is the opposite - Photoshop (I still use CS6) is merely a plug-in for Lightroom, just like my Nik and Topaz plug-ins.
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john beardsworth

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2015, 11:04:30 am »

I know past performance is not a guarantee for the future, but when LR 5 was part of the subscription how many improvements were made to that version that were not implemented in the perpetual license version?

The answer was none. However, see this little video by Terry White.
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stevenskl

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2015, 11:27:27 am »

I missed that video :(  What did Terry show?
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AFairley

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Re: What has the Adobe LR team been doing since LR5 for 2 years?
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2015, 11:59:44 am »

To me, the addition of GPU support in LR6, which finally lets me see lag-free real-time changes on my 30" monitor as I move the development sliders, is well worth the upgrade price.  Bummer not to have better X-Trans demosaicing, though.
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