Topaz Clarity Zero = not Zero?

[Hening Bettermann]

Hi!

When I open an image in PhotoLine 18.53 with the Topaz Clarity 1.0 plug-in, the contrast is slightly increased even though all sliders are in zero position. Joe Fedric from Topaz says this is not intended behaviour, and he could not reproduce the issue with Photoshop CC or Lightroom. Another PhotoLine user also says he does not see the problem. Not sure if he is on Windows. --edit: He is. - I'm on Mac 10.9.5. I have re-downloaded and re-installed the plug-in, but no change.

Topaz does not officially support PhotoLine as a host application, but PL supports the Common Plug-in Architecture, and other plug-ins work.

The screen shot of the tree shows the original on top; at bottom the the Topaz split view, unprocessed at left, 'processed' with all-zero at right. Both are clearly increased in contrast, the shadows are (or seem) lowered. Look at the main trunk.

More puzzling: When applied to the grey scale on Barts resolution test target, the picture is different: here, all values are raised (lightened).

So the workaround I had thought of would not work (establishing a preset with sliders adjusted to visual equity).



Thank you for your input.

[LesPalenik]

I don't have explanation for the zero contrast, but it seems that some of the Topaz plugins evaluate the image first and depending on its findings, determine the initial settings (sliders positions). This would mean that different images may be processed with slightly different adjustments.

The most practical way to deal with any unwanted local adjustments is to make a layer copy first, and then mask out any areas that you want to exclude from such adjustments.

[Hening Bettermann]

Hi Les,
thank you for your input. -
> it seems that some of the Topaz plugins evaluate the image first and depending on its findings, determine the initial settings (sliders positions)
The Topaz support denies this:
"This particular issues sounds like an adjustment during the hand-off of the original image from PL to Clarity. In our plugins, until settings are changed, no adjustments to the images are made."
Kind regards - Hening.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hi Les,
thank you for your input. -
> it seems that some of the Topaz plugins evaluate the image first and depending on its findings, determine the initial settings (sliders positions)

Hi Hening,

That's not the case, or at least it's not how the Topaz Plugins are designed.

Some plugins first do a lot of number crunching, but that's to allow responsive screen updates when the sliders/controls are moved. The  plugins are also designed to allow usage with Smart Objects, and therefore they start with the settings that were last used. So if you do not want the same settings to be used, you always need to first reset all parameters with the reset button.

With all sliders/controls reset to their starting position, usually zero, or one, or halfway a range, the before and after image should be identical, just like Topaz Support says. If it is not, then there is something wrong, as it seems to be the case with your setup.

I would be surprised if Photoline is causing this, because it basically just calls the plugin and sends it the image to work on. Other than a potential issue with colormanagement, I cannot imaginge what is causing the abnormal behavior. I'm on a Windows platform, where it works as intended when called from PL, so I can't test the combination on Macs.

The Topaz support denies this:
"This particular issues sounds like an adjustment during the hand-off of the original image from PL to Clarity. In our plugins, until settings are changed, no adjustments to the images are made."

Yes, that's how it appears, something happens during the image transfer to the plugin. Are you using layers, otherwise I can't explain it either?

Cheers,
Bart

[LesPalenik]

Hi Les,
thank you for your input. -
> it seems that some of the Topaz plugins evaluate the image first and depending on its findings, determine the initial settings (sliders positions)
The Topaz support denies this:
"This particular issues sounds like an adjustment during the hand-off of the original image from PL to Clarity. In our plugins, until settings are changed, no adjustments to the images are made."
Kind regards - Hening.

Hening,

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
When I take a file from Photoshop to Topaz Clarity, Topaz immediately applies a default preset to the image (usually the last preset used on the previously processed image).
If you click on that image (in Topaz screen), you can toggle between the original image and the modified image how it would be look when processed by the current preset, so it's easy to see if anything (or to what degree) has changed. Of course, the actual Photoshop file doesn't get affected until you press Save in Topaz plugin.
As I mentioned in my previous post, sometimes it may be confusing, that the initial slider values differ from image to image. I don't remember if all their plugins behave in such a way, but Denoiser for sure.
 

[Hening Bettermann]

Hi Bart
thank you for chiming in.
> So if you do not want the same settings to be used, you always need to first reset all parameters with the reset button.

Also if the sliders show zero, as they do in my posted example? In that case, there would be a difference between the slider display and the actual settings.
I am normally using layers, but for the sake of the experiment, I worked with background only. Should Topaz not work on an image with layers, e.g. other adjustment layer(s) with a basic tone response curve?

Hi Les,
> As I mentioned in my previous post, sometimes it may be confusing, that the initial slider values differ from image to image. I don't remember if all their plugins behave in such a way, but Denoiser for sure.

In Clarity, the zero setting is all sliders on zero, in the middle of the bar, so that's easy enough to see at a glance. (See also on my posted screen shot.)
---
Today, I can produce exspected behaviour with Clarity! Both with the real image and the target, and measurable on the latter; both on the background layer and a dup, and with a tone curve adjustment layer.

So it seems to have been an accidental failure, even though I tried several times and could reproduce it with the target. Hope it stays away in the future... What puzzles and concerns me is that the sliders showed zero.

Thank you for your interest!

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hi Bart
thank you for chiming in.
> So if you do not want the same settings to be used, you always need to first reset all parameters with the reset button.

Also if the sliders show zero, as they do in my posted example? In that case, there would be a difference between the slider display and the actual settings.

I have not seen any difference in the image between what the sliders indicate by default, and what happens after a reset. So I assume the actual settings are the same as the actual positions that are shown.

I am normally using layers, but for the sake of the experiment, I worked with background only. Should Topaz not work on an image with layers, e.g. other adjustment layer(s) with a basic tone response curve?

AFAIK it makes no difference, whether you work on the 'background' or an additional unlocked layer in Photoshop. Topaz plugins just take the raster image of the active layer and work with it. The only exception I know of is their Remask plugin, which must work on a maskable layer (and can be set to always create a new one). Maybe there is something in Photoline that differs, I don't know.

It seem your issue has gone away, hope it stays that way.

Cheers,
Bart