Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: 3880 & baryta question  (Read 2352 times)

Greg D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
3880 & baryta question
« on: May 08, 2015, 11:42:59 am »

 I recently got some San Gabriel baryta paper from Red River.  Did a few smaller prints with it and was pretty pleased.  A bit warmer than the Canson paper I prefer and a bit lighter than Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, but still a good look, and available 17x25.  But the first time I sent a full 17x25 sheet through, it came out with significant rippling in it.  I contacted Red River and they suggestedd a fix detailed in their handling guide for the paper which, while intended to address a different problem, they believed would solve this one.  It involved reducing the ink density and increasing drying time (pausing between print head passes) in the Paper Configuration button in the printer driver.  I have my doubts as to whether this will work (whether ink density can be reduced enough to prevent the rippling without also affecting print quality) but problem is, I can't seem to get these settings to take effect.  Went to the paper config button, made the changes (reduced density 10%, set a 1-second pause between head passes) and saved the changes.  But the print head went on its merry way with no pauses.  As for ink density, I can't say for sure, but there was no improvemnt in the rippling, so I'd assume that didn't stick either.   So.... 2 questions here:  1) Am I missing something with regard to use of the paper config settings?  and 2) Has anyone else had this problem with this or similar papers, and how did you address it?

Thanks much,
Greg
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2015, 11:47:33 am »

The paper should have a profile that properly controls ink lay down. Ink lay down is also influenced by the reference paper in the Epson list that you are supposed to use with the correct profile for your Red River paper.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Greg D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2015, 12:07:11 pm »

The paper should have a profile that properly controls ink lay down. Ink lay down is also influenced by the reference paper in the Epson list that you are supposed to use with the correct profile for your Red River paper.

Right - I'm using the Red River-supplied profile and the reference paper (premium semi-gloss I believe) suggested.  With my other printer (R1900) I found that the Red River profiles were almost always inferior to the Epson profiles for similar papers, but the Red River 3880 profiles seem to work fine with the other papers (luster & matte) I've tried.  In terms of color, etc, this one looks okay, just the rippling thing.....
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2015, 12:37:17 pm »

If the rippling comes from excessive ink laydown, either the paper is rubbish or the profiling is not suitable for it. Wouldn't be the first time paper manufacturers provide crummy profiles. Not saying that's necessarily the case, but these are the first places to look.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

JayWPage

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 216
    • Jay W Page Photography
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 07:53:23 pm »

I tried some samples of Red River's San Gabriel Baryta paper last year and I wasn't very impressed. I was printing using the Imageprint V9.0 RIP and using ImagePrint's profiles for the RR San Gabriel. I printed some test crops that had printed well on some Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta and there was no comparison. It looked as if there were numerous tiny specks that hadn't got enough ink on the San Gabriel, as if there was some kind of problem with the texture so that the ink wasn't absorbed uniformly. Maybe the paper coating got compressed when the texture was embossed on the paper which affected the ink absorption??? Anyway, I wasn't about to waste anymore time on it, and I certainly won't use it.
Logged
Jay W Page

John Caldwell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 704
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 09:06:26 pm »

While I don't like the San Gabriel paper either, Greg's question is more about getting the driver settings to properly execute on printing I believe. If I'm correct, the 3880 driver settings that impact ink limits and drying time are in the Advance tab in the Epson driver. Greg doesn't say what program he is printing from, but if he is printing from LR the driver settings won't be sticky to a LR Printing Preset unless he goes about the Advance tab selections in the correct way. So Greg, are you printing from LR, and are you saving your Advanced driver settings in a LR preset?

Unless the ink limits are wildly off, or unless there is something mechanically wrong with your 3880's paper path, your print should be leaving the transport with ripples, zippers or kinks.

John Caldwell
Logged

hugowolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1001
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 09:31:16 pm »

While I don't like the San Gabriel paper either, Greg's question is more about getting the driver settings to properly execute on printing I believe. If I'm correct, the 3880 driver settings that impact ink limits and drying time are in the Advance tab in the Epson driver. Greg doesn't say what program he is printing from, but if he is printing from LR the driver settings won't be sticky to a LR Printing Preset unless he goes about the Advance tab selections in the correct way. So Greg, are you printing from LR, and are you saving your Advanced driver settings in a LR preset?

Unless the ink limits are wildly off, or unless there is something mechanically wrong with your 3880's paper path, your print should be leaving the transport with ripples, zippers or kinks.


Yes, the profile has no ink limiting information, that (in an Epson driver) is purely down to media choice.

Brian A
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2015, 09:46:25 pm »

Yes, the profile has no ink limiting information, that (in an Epson driver) is purely down to media choice.

Brian A

I don't think it's quite that straightforward.

Regardless, just to drill down to where the problem may be lodged, I suggest the OP should use some Epson paper close to the RR type, and along with it the Epson profile with the Epson media type correctly lodged in the printer driver media selector. Then see whether ripples or too much ink lay-down occur. If they do, there is either an electro-mechanical problem with the printer, or some obscure driver setting that is askew. If they don't, there is a problem specific to the RR paper and/or the profile being used with it.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Greg D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 10:49:31 pm »

While I don't like the San Gabriel paper either, Greg's question is more about getting the driver settings to properly execute on printing I believe. If I'm correct, the 3880 driver settings that impact ink limits and drying time are in the Advance tab in the Epson driver. Greg doesn't say what program he is printing from, but if he is printing from LR the driver settings won't be sticky to a LR Printing Preset unless he goes about the Advance tab selections in the correct way. So Greg, are you printing from LR, and are you saving your Advanced driver settings in a LR preset?

Unless the ink limits are wildly off, or unless there is something mechanically wrong with your 3880's paper path, your print should be leaving the transport with ripples, zippers or kinks.

John Caldwell


I am printing from LR5.  The settings in question are actually found in the "Paper Config" button. (I believe it is called "Advanced media setting" or something like that in Mac, but I'm using Windows.  The "Advanced" tab in the Windows driver is for color adjustment when the driver controls color rather than a paper profile.)  At any rate, I haven't actually attempted to save these particular settings (ink density & drying time) to a preset yet.  I simply opened the preset for the paper size & type I'd previously made, opened the driver, made the changes on the paper config tab, clicked "Okay" and printed.  When it appeared to ignore these instructions (i.e. print head didn't pause), I stopped the print and opened up the driver.  The paper config settings were showing as I had set them, but they obviously weren't taking effect.   ??? ???
  As suggested, I will try a similar Epson profile (as I said, I've had better results that way with my 1900) but I'm kinda thinking this rippling business may be a problem with this paper.  The bigger question now is why the driver doesn't seem to be behaving the way it should.  I have to think this is something I'm overlooking, but I can't imagine what - it seems pretty straightforward.
Logged

AFairley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1486
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2015, 08:05:17 am »

When I make adjustments such as the OP's, I save the paper type, adjustments, paper size, paper source, etc.  as a preset in the Epson driver.  I then save the Epson settings as a LR preset.  (Win 7 and LR5).  No idea if creating a driver preset makes any difference....
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2015, 08:28:23 am »

When I make adjustments such as the OP's, I save the paper type, adjustments, paper size, paper source, etc.  as a preset in the Epson driver.  I then save the Epson settings as a LR preset.  (Win 7 and LR5).  No idea if creating a driver preset makes any difference....

When working in LR 5 you access the Epson driver from the Print module in two places: bottom left "Print Settings" allows you to make driver-related changes and save them; bottom right accesses the same menus, but the next step is "Print". If you have selected to let LR manage the colour in the Print module by selecting an ICC profile for your paper in the Color Management dropdown lower right, you cannot access the "Advanced Color Settings" in the driver because Printer Color Management is OFF. The profile in conjunction with the media choice you have made in the driver for that profile determine the printing process. Print Presets (which include inter alia reference profile, output resolution, print mode, choice of media feed) are saved in the driver, not in LR. In LR you want to make sure that if the application is managing colour the profile you are using in LR is accompanied in the driver by its correct media reference type. In LR, once you have all this right, you can create a saved template which saves the Page Set-Up settings and the Print Settings to one bespoke saved template which makes printing "foolproof" for all identically specified jobs.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Greg D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2015, 11:18:19 am »

Thanks for all these replies.  I do understand about setting up templates (both in LR & the printer driver), matching paper profiles to paper type, turning off color management in the driver, etc.  My problem was that I was making settings changes that were apparently not being observed by the printer.  HOWEVER - a discovery:  In the Paper Config dialog box, the "Drying time per print head pass" slider is calibrated in 0.1 second increments, i.e. setting it at 10 should give a pause of 1 second (check my math).  BUT IT DOESN'T.  The "pause" is a small fraction of a second, barely detectable.  So I tried setting it at 30 (which should give 3 seconds) and printed again, and this time the pause was quite noticeable - nowhere near the 3 seconds it should have been, but noticeable.  So it appears there's just an error in terminology in the dialog box - the .1 seconds should maybe be .01?  Perhaps one of you could try this to confirm that I'm correct on this and don't have a misbehaving printer.
  So now the question is:  How much drying time is enough?  The slider goes to 50, which if my hunch is correct would be only 1/2 second.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2015, 11:52:21 am »

I have never ever had any experience with printing from an Epson professional printer that required toying around with "drying time", and I've been doing this for 15 years.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

John Caldwell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 704
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2015, 03:26:35 pm »

... No idea if creating a driver preset makes any difference....

I does make a difference, and it doesn't work, and will likely ruin the LR Print Preset's ability to retain the driver settings. Recent dialog on this forum has taught me to not save an Epson Driver Preset, which was always very tempting to me. Instead I have learned to work only from the Default driver setting, make whatever selections I want in the driver regarding media type, high speed, roll vs, sheet, ink limits, drying time etc; to Not save a new Driver Preset, to simply approve Save in the driver dialog and then return to LR where a Print Preset is saved. Only with that method have I found my driver selections to stick. I don't know if Greg's problem that prompted the OP is addressed here, as I have zero experience in the Windows world.

My personal experience with increasing Drying Time has been useful in the context of having fewer head strikes with 44" rolls, and with having a "more dry" print exit the machine at the time the built-in cutter is used (which has permitted less cutter dust to embed in the print). But I certainly get Mark's point that if you need to tie yourself into a pretzel to get a reasonable print from a good machine like the 3880 with a given paper, it's probably time to move onto a paper with a better track record.

John Caldwell
Logged

Greg D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
Re: 3880 & baryta question
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2015, 05:46:05 pm »

I does make a difference, and it doesn't work, and will likely ruin the LR Print Preset's ability to retain the driver settings. Recent dialog on this forum has taught me to not save an Epson Driver Preset, which was always very tempting to me. Instead I have learned to work only from the Default driver setting, make whatever selections I want in the driver regarding media type, high speed, roll vs, sheet, ink limits, drying time etc; to Not save a new Driver Preset, to simply approve Save in the driver dialog and then return to LR where a Print Preset is saved. Only with that method have I found my driver selections to stick. I don't know if Greg's problem that prompted the OP is addressed here, as I have zero experience in the Windows world.

I haven't had a problem with this.  I have dozens of LR presets that include printer driver presets and they all seem to work fine & retain driver settings.  Most of these are for the R1900 I've been using for several years.  I've only made up a few for my 3880 so far, but they all seem to be behaving the same way.  But I do have a friend with a 3880 and he has the same complaint.  So, keeping my fingers crossed, I guess.....

But I certainly get Mark's point that if you need to tie yourself into a pretzel to get a reasonable print from a good machine like the 3880 with a given paper, it's probably time to move onto a paper with a better track record.

John Caldwell

Yep.  Guess I'll wind up cutting this stuff up for small prints, which don't seem to show the rippling.

Thanks for everyone's input.

BTW, if anyone's interested in the drying time issue, a little experimentation showed that the 0.1 second thing doesn't seem  to mean anything.  Setting at 10 produces a barely perceptible pause between passes.  20 produces perhaps a half-second.  50 produces about 3 seconds.

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up