What does the "masked screen" of a Hasselblad V WLF look like, with a P65 back?

[nicemate1]

Hello!
Is anyone currently using a P65 with a Hasselblad V system? I am looking into making the "big leap" into digital medium format, but am quite concerned about the masks to be placed in the viewfinder.
In other words I am worried about what portion of the original Hasselblad acute screen I should not consider when composing the picture.
It would be really cool if someone in this forum could kindly post an image that shows the mask crop in the viewfinder - to see how much of the original screen is cut off, per each side.
In fact, I just saw in a blog by a japanese photographer,
http://akirasofti.exblog.jp/23068172
an image showing how much the screen is cropped on the new CFV - 50c, and even though I was considering going for this new CMOS back, which I find reasonably priced, I now have many doubts as I would find extremely hard composing this way (I also tend, in the excitement of shooting, not to consider the lines !)
Thanks to everyone!
Pietro
http://akirasofti.exblog.jp/23068172

[Paul2660]

Would there be any crop with the P65?  It's not a cropped sensor like the 50c which is a 1:3 crop

Paul

[Joe Towner]

Wouldn't cutting a 40.4x53.9mm square out of a piece of paper work?  I mean the top glass view you're seeing is 56x56mm right?  The -50c and IQ250 are using a 33x44mm size, so an even smaller rectangle.

Are you going to swap between film and digital or stick with the digital back?  You may be better off using a non-transparent masking like tape or such to prevent accidental framing issues.

[nicemate1]

Dear Paul, dear Joe,
Thank you for your answers.
It is more a question of having an idea of what the specifically sized frame of a P65 would exactly look like in the Hasselblad V
waist level finder.
To make an extreme example, if one had a 10x10mm sensor, the usable portion of the big beautiful screen of the Hasselblad V
would be reduced to a mere 1 by 1 cm, of viewable image, in the viewfinder, thus making it almost worthless to have a WLF.
In other words, it would be nice to see how someone "would see" the final image in the viewfinder of a Hasselblad V with
a P65, especially to compare it to how you see the image on, let's say, an H model, or a Mamiya 645 body.

[amsp]

Here you go...

[Chris Livsey]

Here you go...

Where's the P65 frame ?


https://digitaltransitions.com/product/viewfinder-masks

If you scroll down to the middle of the third line the mask for the V is there and, despite the size, gives a good impression of the reduction in the frame, which as a P20 owner I can only drool over.

[amsp]

Where's the P65 frame ?

This is a picture I made for another thread comparing the two digital backs with film. The cfv-39 is almost the same size, use your imagination or add it yourself.

[Joe Towner]

Here's a take off of the image you referenced.  The P65 is almost full width (red lines) with the 50mp Sony as the black lines, but you trade off to get that 3:4 ratio.  Note the focus screen may have both orientations on it, and if you're going to rotate the back (can the P65+/V be rotated?) you'll have to keep the lines in mind.

[nicemate1]

Chris! You made me laugh with your comment 

I am drooling too at this moment.....

Joe, thank you!


Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to figure out... how it would look like through the Hasselblad's WLF in real life!
The best system I have ever used for framing was the RZ's, which also "switched" frame contours when shifting
from vertical to horizontal. Best in the sense that it wasn't transparent, therefore you would not get confused with the lines.
I find the mask (and the smaller size of the frame) of the CFV50 extremely confusing. In a real life situation, and shooting
also maybe quite fast, I would tend to make mistakes with that kind of frame (of the CFV 50c), in the sense that I would
end up thinking that I have something in the frame which actually I am not getting in the picture.

In your opinion, Joe, will it be easy to get used to a transparent mask of a P65 ?

Infact you cannot make a black mask which blacks out all the areas which are not covered, because those times that you
wish to change from horizontal to vertical, you would also have to take off the wlf and change the mask.

So ultimately it would be something like this...

[Joe Towner]

I love the RZ, I'm addicted to the blades showing me framing.  Having shot the V very little, with the -50c back, it's fun, but I had a hard time especially in dim lighting to see where the lines are.  It comes down to how you work.  On the DF+ with the focus screen for the IQ250 I even had difficulty.

[Doug Peterson]

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that, depending on where you live, it can be quite easy to see what a P65+ looks like on a Hassy 500. We'd be glad to show you at our office in NYC or anywhere else in the US via rental-toward-purchase. We still sell a lot of P65+ units refurbished with warranties and dealer support; great image quality, lovely color especially for skintones, large sensor, great tethering, easy operation, incredibly durable and well built. The LCD screen is quite poor by modern standards (e.g. compared to an Phase One IQ back or an iPhone) but for someone coming from film any LCD is a large step up in terms of post-capture review . Or if you live elsewhere in the world get in touch with your local dealer.

It's literally our job to help answer these questions in the most effective way possible - by having you actually shoot with the cameras in question.

I arrived at the party too late to help with your question, but I see it was very well answered by the community. The only thing I'd add is to clarify that the mask on our website is shown with the as-shipped paper peel still on it. Normally before use you'd remove the paper which would make them clear in the imaging areas rather than textured as you see on our website.

[jng]

With apologies for the crappy iPhone picture (still worth a thousand words?), this is what the actual P65/IQ160/IQ260/IQ180/IQ280 mask looks like on the screen itself. The black lines on the screen correspond to the 36x48mm CFV crop sensor.

[nicemate1]

Joe ... the RZ is the best screen, like watching a movie !!!

Doug, many thanks... I remember coming to visit once, not far from the ESB if I remember correctly!

I live in Europe so unfortunately I won't be able to pop in.

I am seeing that the 48x36, or the 44x33 sensors, in the various examples, have a horizontal marking but not a vertical one.
Are you supposed to take the WLF off the camera and change the position of the mask too? I suppose that is how it works....
On the P65 things look a lot easier, in that respect.

I am very fond of shooting with a WLF and am in the process of deciding if going for
a P65 contax or a P65 hasselblad V, although the Hasselblad solution is way cheaper, does not have power
supply issues as there are no batteries and if worse gets to worse you can send in the camera for repair which isn't the case with
Contax anymore!

Thanks everyone!

[Doug Peterson]

Joe ... the RZ is the best screen, like watching a movie !!!

Doug, many thanks... I remember coming to visit once, not far from the ESB if I remember correctly!

I live in Europe so unfortunately I won't be able to pop in.

I am seeing that the 48x36, or the 44x33 sensors, in the various examples, have a horizontal marking but not a vertical one.
Are you supposed to take the WLF off the camera and change the position of the mask too? I suppose that is how it works....
On the P65 things look a lot easier, in that respect.

I am very fond of shooting with a WLF and am in the process of deciding if going for
a P65 contax or a P65 hasselblad V, although the Hasselblad solution is way cheaper, does not have power
supply issues as there are no batteries and if worse gets to worse you can send in the camera for repair which isn't the case with
Contax anymore!

You can still get repairs on Contax units. Though it is obviously becoming more of a hassle over time. You can also add the Mamiya RZ Pro II / Pro IID and Hy6 to your list of potential digital-back compatible bodies with WLF.

The confusion over horizontal vs vertical markings is this:
- All Phase One digital backs can be mounted horizontal or vertical.* All Phase One masks show horizontal and vertical.
- Hasselblad CFV backs can only be mounted horizontally.

*technically this is not true for an H20, P20, or P20+, because these backs use square sensors and therefore rotating them would not be useful.

[nicemate1]

Doug!
are you sure the Hasselblad CFV cannot be mounted on the camera vertically?
That is really weird!
Pietro

[Joe Towner]

I'm looking for better photos, but the Hasselblad version doesn't have the hardware to mount 90 degrees off.

http://static.hasselblad.com/2015/03/CFV-50c_User-Manual_v2_Eng_-2014.pdf - page 10

Here's an auction for a P40 back: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Phase-One-P40-40MP-Digital-Back-for-Hasselblad-V-503cw-501cm-905swc-SWC-M-/311351424724


See how the left two and right two edges are identical?  That's how it works, pop off the back, turn 90 degrees, pop it back on.  The CFV doesn't have those, so landscape orientation only.

[algrove]

Joe ... the RZ is the best screen, like watching a movie !!!

Doug, many thanks... I remember coming to visit once, not far from the ESB if I remember correctly!

I live in Europe so unfortunately I won't be able to pop in.

I am seeing that the 48x36, or the 44x33 sensors, in the various examples, have a horizontal marking but not a vertical one.
Are you supposed to take the WLF off the camera and change the position of the mask too? I suppose that is how it works....
On the P65 things look a lot easier, in that respect.

I am very fond of shooting with a WLF and am in the process of deciding if going for
a P65 contax or a P65 hasselblad V, although the Hasselblad solution is way cheaper, does not have power
supply issues as there are no batteries and if worse gets to worse you can send in the camera for repair which isn't the case with
Contax anymore!

Thanks everyone!

I just sold my V system and 503CW. I still have a Hassy Acute Matte D screen where the mask is in a vertical position with the center split screen horizontal. PM me if interested. Easy to ship to Europe too. I used this with a P45+ and it could be mounted in portrait mode. Can't see why the P65 does not function the same way.