Thoughts on Anti-Reflection Picture Framing Glass

[samueljohnchia]

Hi everyone,

After a decade or so of dealing with reflections in glass and acrylic of my framed prints, a recent exhibition early this year gave me the push I needed to source for an affordable yet excellent anti-reflective framing glass or acrylic. Where I come from, the Tru Vue distributor has total monopoly on the product line, pricing the glazing far out of reach of most people. In the course of my research, I came across alternatives, and one of which is made by a small but vibrant company in Latvia. It is the most transparent and neutral anti-reflected coated framing glass I know of. Groglass has managed to eliminate the transmission shift in the interference coating into the shorter wavelengths as light strikes the glass at more diagonal angles, so that the glass appears more cyan tinted at 30 - 60 degrees of light incidence. Correspondingly the usually green reflection color shifts into pink/red before transiting to neutral. Groglass Artglass WW is the only glass to reflect green at zero degrees (perpenticular) and the color gradually changes to neutral at increasing reflection angles with no shift into pink/red whatsoever.

I have done quite a bit of research and digging into the subtleties of the glasses, and I delve into significantly more detail in my article I published at this link: http://cacaoeditions.com/anti-reflection-picture-framing-glass/

I will be adding to that more glasses from other manufacturers and also the anti-reflection coated acrylics in time.

I hope if you are also looking for an excellent framing glass that it will be a somewhat more objective assessment.

[davidh202]

Speaking as a custom framer of over 30 years, I think you have done a very informative and objective paper on this topic.
Thanks!
PS... I hate Museum Glass ;-)
David

[Wayne Fox]

Nice write up.

we switched to all  ArtGlass for anti reflective projects about a couple of years ago.  The WW version without UV protection is stunning with a face mounted print under it.  Not bad with the UV protection either.

[AreBee]

David,

I hate Museum Glass

Why?

[Paul2660]

David,

Why?

One reason is is so hard to work with. You really cannot clean it without a streak. I learned to take it straight from the box, cut it, and mount it. Hopefully it won't get scratched.

Bigger issue is when the owner tries to clean their glass say about 6 months later and they use windex. What a mess.

However if you get a good mount it can look great.

Paul

[framah]

One reason is is so hard to work with. You really cannot clean it without a streak. I learned to take it straight from the box, cut it, and mount it. Hopefully it won't get scratched.

Bigger issue is when the owner tries to clean their glass say about 6 months later and they use windex. What a mess.

However if you get a good mount it can look great.

Paul

You can and I ALWAYS do get it clean. The "secret" is to flood the glass. You can't just get the wipe wet and expect it to not streak. If I ever get a streak, I just redo the piece with more cleaner and it's gone.

I do agree that the other main problem is with customer attempts to clean... and to keep their greasy little fingers off it. Never fails when someone brings in a piece that has museum glass in it, it is covered with fingerprints.

They do have a new type of glass that is supposed to be easier to clean and handle but with a lesser amount of UV filtering. Ultra Vue and it also costs about half of what museum costs.

[AreBee]

Paul, framah,

Very interesting. Thank you both very much.

[samueljohnchia]

Speaking as a custom framer of over 30 years, I think you have done a very informative and objective paper on this topic.
Thanks!
PS... I hate Museum Glass ;-)
David

Thanks David!

I hate it too :-)

Nice write up.

we switched to all  ArtGlass for anti reflective projects about a couple of years ago.  The WW version without UV protection is stunning with a face mounted print under it.  Not bad with the UV protection either.

Thanks Wayne! That's a smart choice. I assumed you used Tru Vue previously? Did you experience problems that made you want to switch or was it because of costing reasons?

Facemounting with Artglass WW, sweet! I'm only concerned about the fragility of the glass.

David,

Why?

Paul has rightly pointed out the issue with old Museum Glass. The coating is very difficult to clean - this issue should never be underestimated. Of course it is not impossible to clean, but it does take much more care and time to get it clean. For something really masochistic, try getting a piece of Optium Museum Acrylic full of fingerprints clean  

I also don't like the waviness in the UV coating of Museum Glass. Very ugly. The glass used is also regular glass, not low iron glass, so the transmission is not as high as it could be.

There is a new version of Museum Glass with a much easier to clean coating and supposedly is more durable. I was sent a sample kit by Tru Vue and tested it against the old Museum Glass. The new one is truly much easier to clean but the coating was much more fragile, scratching as easily as plain acrylic. I wrote them about this and they said maybe it is an anomaly. In the course of my research I have uncovered evidence of Tru Vue's QC issues, I won't comment further. If you are a long time framer or have dealt with many batches of their glass you would know from experience, and probably better than I do. I don't sell either one of these products and could care less about such issues, except that a more problematic product translates into higher framing cost from my favorite local framers, and none of us like to pay more to receive more trouble down the road.

They do have a new type of glass that is supposed to be easier to clean and handle but with a lesser amount of UV filtering. Ultra Vue and it also costs about half of what museum costs.

I covered UltraVue extensively in my article. Something I did not call attention to is that the coatings on UltraVue (and Artglass) are applied using magnetron sputtering, and so are extremely hard-wearing and durable. More or less as durable as the glass itself, and will theoratically last forever. The coating of Museum Glass is not magnetron sputtered, is softer and scratches more easily, and will degrade over time. I won't elaborate more on this. Framers and artists will likely continue to use whatever they have decided their favourite glazing is, which probably greatly depends on access to such materials in their own local market/distributorship and the raw material cost.

[davidh202]

There is a new version of Museum Glass with a much easier to clean coating and supposedly is more durable. I was sent a sample kit by Tru Vue and tested it against the old Museum Glass. The new one is truly much easier to clean but the coating was much more fragile, scratching as easily as plain acrylic. I wrote them about this and they said maybe it is an anomaly. In the course of my research I have uncovered evidence of Tru Vue's QC issues, I won't comment further. If you are a long time framer or have dealt with many batches of their glass you would know from experience, and probably better than I do. I don't sell either one of these products and could care less about such issues, except that a more problematic product translates into higher framing cost from my favorite local framers, and none of us like to pay more to receive more trouble down the road.

 

precisely!

[Some Guy]

Is the Groglass neutral in color when looking through it over the Tru-View Museum Glass?  If so, I'll ask my framer to order some for the next framing run.  That T-V MG stuff adds big $$$ on an order.

I know regular glass has that faint green/cyan tint that in some prints needs to be corrected for (Printed warmer.) else skin looks sickly greenish.  Acrylic doesn't have it that I've noticed, just that I seem to scratch it a lot.

SG

[enduser]

I know that polycarbonate is tougher than acrylic, is it any good for framing?

[samueljohnchia]

Is the Groglass neutral in color when looking through it over the Tru-View Museum Glass?  If so, I'll ask my framer to order some for the next framing run.  That T-V MG stuff adds big $$$ on an order.

I know regular glass has that faint green/cyan tint that in some prints needs to be corrected for (Printed warmer.) else skin looks sickly greenish.  Acrylic doesn't have it that I've noticed, just that I seem to scratch it a lot.

SG

Groglass uses low iron or 'water white' glass for Artglass, so yes it is very neutral in color, like clear acrylic. I don't know what you mean about looking through it over Museum Glass (MG) - are you expecting it to neutralise the color tinting of MG? It does not work that way. In fact, Groglass Artglass WW is so transparent and neutral with so little reflections I can clearly see the tint of MG glass when it is placed under Artglass WW. Of all the samples I have so far, it is the most neutral and transparent and also happens to be the cheapest to buy.

I do encourage you to ask your framer to get some for your work. I'm sure you will love it. Just note that when it comes to highly transparent glasses, they usually do not have such a high UV blocking ability. More effective UV blocking actually turns the glass slighly yellowish. Trade-offs...

In the case of MG, the UV coating which is orangey-brown completely neutralises and overwhelms the green tint of the soda lime glass substrate, so you cannot be seeing any green tint from the glass. The tint should be somewhat orange.

Standard acrylic reflects as much light as glass (8%) so Artglass WW will look much, much better. The anti-reflective coatings are very durable and will not scratch easily.

[samueljohnchia]

I know that polycarbonate is tougher than acrylic, is it any good for framing?

Polycarbonate is not as brittle as acrylic, and so appears to be more shatter resistant, but that means it is softer and more elastic. So it will actually scratch much more easily than acrylic. In addition, polycarbonate turns yellow over time when exposed to UV light. If you have ever seen the bubble canopies of airplanes or fighter jets that are several years old, you can clearly see just how dingy and yellow it will become. Acrylic never yellows over time.

Reflections in the glazing is by far the greatest impediment to the viewer, so only anti-reflective coated glass or acrylic are choices that I would make for all my work from now on. Once you have seen just how transparent these coated glazings are, you won't touch standard glass or acrylic!

[fdi]

My company has allays had requests for anti-reflective glazing from our photographer customers. Since we ship the frames to our customers for them to do mounting and final assembly TruVue was not an option. Since the coated side is very sensitive to scratching our customers likely scratch it during disassembly, and even if they didn't we would probably get too many questions about how to get finger prints off after they touched it. Custom framers know to take it straight from the box and quickly seal the coated side inside the picture frame.

I was thrilled when GroGlass became available in the US. It is easy for us to sell because the glass requires no special treatment. Either side can go against the artwork, and both sides are fully scratch resistant. We just have to stick with sizes 24x28 and smaller since we ship most of our orders.

We also use Cryo/Evonick Acrylite with the non-glare coating. Although it is reduces the glare some and is naturally optically pure, it does not reduce reflections nearly as well as the GroGlass Artglass.

Another advantage of the Artglass is the UV filter is not as intense as Musuem glass so their is less warming effect on papers that have a lot of optical brighteners present.

Mark,
President, Frame Destination, Inc.

[BradSmith]

Mark,
Thank you for being on this site and providing useful, knowledgable info for all of us.  It reflects (no pun intended) well on Frame Destination.
Brad 

[samueljohnchia]

Hi Mark, thank you for the information from the perspective of a framing supplies point of view. Your insight into practical issues with ease of handling the glass is much appreciated. Your comments about the fragility of the UV coated side of MG is consistent with the other reports I have read and my own samples.

I too was overjoyed to discover Groglass. Actually it was a post you made on APUG in early 2014 that first called my attention to Groglass   I thought you might like to know.

I personally do not like non-glare glazing - just a minor correction, it is not a coating but rather an etched surface. Microscopically bumpy on one side to diffuse the reflections. Total surface reflections still remain as high as smooth clear glazing, only that the light is reflected back in more varied directions. Non glare glazing creates a foggy look over the art which gets worse the further the glazing is spaced from the art like in shadow box frames.

Acrylite has an anti-reflective coated acrylic, but it is not available in more than 3mm thicknesses so making it rather useless for large pieces due to bowing. It is also slightly more expensive than Optium Museum Acrylic. OMA reduces reflections nearly as well as Groglass Artglass, in all practical situations one would say it is just as good, with all the additional goodies like anti-static, anti-scratch and near total UVA blocking. Its high cost and the sheer difficulty to get it clean from fingerprints (basically totally impossible to eliminate 100% of any marks if you accidentally touch the surface and leave an oily residue on it) makes me cringe. I look forward to the new acrylic from Groglass, which should be out some time this year.

My personal preference too is for less UV blocking to allow the glazing to remain a more neutral color, whether or not the paper contains OBAs.

[pcgpcg]

Where can I buy Artglass in the PNW (Portland or Seattle)? I've left two "messages" on the Groglass website over the last two months, asking for US distributors, and have heard nothing. Google has been no help. Thank you.

[PeterAit]

Here's a thought - frame without glazing. It is a most refreshing approach. I have been doing it more often. Let's face it, our prints are not valuable art works that need to be protected from every possible insult. We can print another, or another 20. Advantages:

1) Less cost, particularly when considering the outrageously expensive museum glass.
2) Less hassle when framing.
3) Unbreakable.
4) Lighter.
5) Prints look better without glass or acrylic over them.

[Otto Phocus]

Bigger issue is when the owner tries to clean their glass say about 6 months later and they use windex. What a mess.

Paul

Is there something specific about windex that is not desirable?

[BradSmith]

Where can I buy Artglass in the PNW (Portland or Seattle)? I've left two "messages" on the Groglass website over the last two months, asking for US distributors, and have heard nothing. Google has been no help. Thank you.

I emailed a similar question to their national distributor a month ago about sources in southern California.  Received a reply listing two sources:

CMI Moulding, 7696 Miramar Rd,   in San Diego   (858)  564-0380

Omega Moulding in Los Angeles

I haven't ordered anything from them yet.   I hope this is helpful.
Brad