DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool

[sebbe]

Hej Anders

Thank you very much for your work.
As a long analogue photographer, I'm quite new to the digital side (started two years ago with an a7). With buying an A7RII in august, I start having issues with colors in postprocessing. So I switched from LR to C1, then bought a CC24 and profiled with the x-rite plugin in LR, respectivly with the "C1-equivalent" camprof. It was better, but I still missed a good general profile. Then I stumbled over this thread and tried it out. I had some issues with installing it (and with the bias "technical content and foreign language" (I'm not a programmer and not very good in english)) at the beginning, but now it's quite easy and the first tries looks very promising.

My CC24 shot needs to be better, but it's not that easy too.
After two evenings playing in C1, I'm happy whith my profiles and everything works fine. My issues with saturation and clipping are gone.

I'm writing here, just to thank you, but maybe this is interesting for you: Thanks to your documentation I was looking for the solux bulbs and saw that they have a 5000k version now (besides the 4700k). I can't order them to switzerland, but I hope to find something equivalent.

Anyway, thanks again (and also to the others in this thread). Your program made a hobby photographer really happy. I will try to improve my profile and knowledge about it.

greetings, seb

[AlterEgo]

Solux MR16 (DIY black painted back) = 24 degrees (as listed, but the box is labeled as 26 degrees though) x claimed as 5000K x 12V x 50W = regular 12v voltage supplied by WAC Lighting gooseneck lamp (model 214 or so), no overdrive :



argyll spotread -a -H ... -> averaged 20 measurements from i1Pro2 :

370   373   377   380   383   387   390   393   397   400   403   407   410   413   417   420   423   427   430   433   437   440   443   447   450   453   457   460   463   467   470   473   477   480   483   487   490   493   497   500   503   507   510   513   517   520   523   527   530   533   537   540   543   547   550   553   557   560   563   567   570   573   577   580   583   587   590   593   597   600   603   607   610   613   617   620   623   627   630   633   637   640   643   647   650   653   657   660   663   667   670   673   677   680   683   687   690   693   697   700   703   707   710   713   717   720   723   727   730

0.32088214   0.29784569   0.29401690   0.30621851   0.32705995   0.35354967   0.38184586   0.40966783   0.43894256   0.46920782   0.49828912   0.52510086   0.54895098   0.56796508   0.58454266   0.59962353   0.61439182   0.62851956   0.64198793   0.65451496   0.66938343   0.68756174   0.70638357   0.72585339   0.74626633   0.76402709   0.77853445   0.79261878   0.80619712   0.81536129   0.82198649   0.82940335   0.83821059   0.84743544   0.85308833   0.85858870   0.86881333   0.87986246   0.88918143   0.89832669   0.90668527   0.91587696   0.92567861   0.93001969   0.93304846   0.94441652   0.95679285   0.95984252   0.96268567   0.97147879   0.97858487   0.98159013   0.98626197   0.99194637   0.99484559   0.99671250   0.99953539   1.00000000   0.99659206   0.99356489   0.99129215   0.98641275   0.97891014   0.97201763   0.96555810   0.95630950   0.94471420   0.93509700   0.92885205   0.92353666   0.91714001   0.91085846   0.90600584   0.90300038   0.90110816   0.90006470   0.90038321   0.90001229   0.89849141   0.89736427   0.89803213   0.89918212   0.89828002   0.89503026   0.89028515   0.88461872   0.87602444   0.86522913   0.85448318   0.84379143   0.83145690   0.81608462   0.79810954   0.78074840   0.76474757   0.74917290   0.73181067   0.71200825   0.69176042   0.67355084   0.65715186   0.64078524   0.62236194   0.60378076   0.59156921   0.58853493   0.58886248   0.58654337   0.58395931

[Hening Bettermann]

Wow! That looks really impressive! Thank you AlterEgo!

[torger]

After two evenings playing in C1, I'm happy whith my profiles and everything works fine. My issues with saturation and clipping are gone.

Great to hear that you got it working and have use of the software! If something goes wrong during the calibration process strange things can happen.

I haven't touched the code since the last release. Maybe I'll just re-label the release to 1.0 at some point. I'll give it some more time in use first though.

[AlterEgo]

...

almost forgot to update... CC24 ColorChecker Classic November 2014 edition = I averaged many measurements with argyll, with patchtool XRGA and patchtool non-XRGA modes... I still see consistent differences between all 3 (averaged) that are more than expected... even Graeme posted somthing that there shall be none.

attached are the data files

[AlterEgo]

and so I averaged all i1Pro2 measurements (from the original series)

[sebbe]

Great to hear that you got it working and have use of the software! If something goes wrong during the calibration process strange things can happen.

I haven't touched the code since the last release. Maybe I'll just re-label the release to 1.0 at some point. I'll give it some more time in use first though.

With all the documentation and the builds, it's quite easy to use the program and even to play with. One thing I would change although in the C1 easy way section: Create the CC24.tif and the curve.tif just together at the beginning. For all the non-tech-user that is less confusing.

The difficult thing is to make a good CC24 file. Maybe you can advise to make the first profile with an example (and give a link to some files), just to understand the process first. I'm still working on a "perfect" version from my own camera.
I'm in touch now with solux now. They can send me some with UPS. Do you think it's worth to order a 5000k instead of a 4700k version? Or does it not matter at all? Or should I wait until a weekend with a sunny day to make an outdoor profile? And it's a shame to ask that: Should the sun shine on the CC24 (of course outside the family of angles and not directed toward the sky)?

I'm wondering how the profiles will work with the new C1... As soon as I'm at home I will update and check.

seb

[Frederic_H]

C1 9.0 previews strange colors when selecting a dcamprof 0.10.x profile in the ICC drop-down menu, and when clicked the menu reverts to "none". It takes a second attempt to have it to load, and then display the expected colors.
Curiously 0.9 profiles seem to behave correctly ?

[AlterEgo]

The difficult thing is to make a good CC24 file. Maybe you can advise to make the first profile with an example (and give a link to some files), just to understand the process first.

the raw (for A7R2 for example) from imaging-resource, the one @ ISO50 (because it has a better exposure /sensor-saturation-wise/ than ISO100) is decent enough for experiments... you still don't have illumination spectrum and you don't have a flat fielding raw - but the illumination (across the target) is quite even versus what I-R used to post some time ago...

[AlterEgo]

Do you think it's worth to order a 5000k instead of a 4700k version?

note that 5K comes _only_ in 24/26 degrees version... 4700K comes also in a wider coverage 36 degrees version... based on your setup you need to pay attention to how even your target will be illuminated (CC24 ColorChecker Classic is a big one for example) across the surface with one solux mr16 lamp... test illumination evenness by shooting a flat uniform colored surface in your setup with your target position/contour marked and see (suggest rawdigger) how even the light is... even with flatfielding option you still want to do your best here

[sebbe]

the raw (for A7R2 for example) from imaging-resource, the one @ ISO50 (because it has a better exposure /sensor-saturation-wise/ than ISO100) is decent enough for experiments... you still don't have illumination spectrum and you don't have a flat fielding raw - but the illumination (across the target) is quite even versus what I-R used to post some time ago...

I use the ISO100 version, because the A7RII has no real 50. Good to know your additional infos about the quality of the ISO100, so I have to change that. Actually I'm using this CC24 and one shot of my own as my basic profiles. If the one from "imaging-resource" gives me strange colors (most time in the reds), I'll switch to my self maded. Often it looks good then.
If I read right between the lines (also about the difference between solux 4700k and 5000k), it's easier to make a good outdoor shot, than to get a good indoor setup. Especially if I only profile one or two cameras with it and not for colorcritical work.

[AlterEgo]

I use the ISO100 version, because the A7RII has no real 50.

for profile making it does not matter in this case, here (when using I-R raws, not when you make your own shots) ISO50 shot will simply give you more properly exposed ISO100 raw = profit !

[AlterEgo]

If I read right between the lines (also about the difference between solux 4700k and 5000k), it's easier to make a good outdoor shot, than to get a good indoor setup.

you can certainly try - some people make some kind of a "booth", like from a big cardboard box covered inside with black matte material to place the target inside to shot outdoors to reduce parasitic reflections from sides/bottom, etc...

[sebbe]

C1 9.0 previews strange colors when selecting a dcamprof 0.10.x profile in the ICC drop-down menu, and when clicked the menu reverts to "none". It takes a second attempt to have it to load, and then display the expected colors.
Curiously 0.9 profiles seem to behave correctly ?

I have compared my profiles and I have some differences within 8.3.4 and 9.0.0 when exporting them to jpg.
generic: the C1 generic A7RII file (no differences)
profile: dcamprof profile from the imaging resource file (slight differences)
self: dcamprof profile from my own made CC24 shot (big differences in saturation)

As the tiff files are made out of C1 and phase one explicid says they improved the process engine, I think we have to re-export the tiffs and calibrate new profiles anyway. I will do that and compare it again. But this could take a while, because I don't have much spare time this week.

Edit: I don't have any differences if I look on the same Profile inside of the new version but with different engines (v8 engine vs. v9 engine). Did you upgrade your pic?

[Frederic_H]

For now I'm seeing many weird things, even with P1 profiles (IQ daylight looks really low on saturation compared to the flash profile for instance), and lots of OS X beachballs of death...
Guess I'll wait it stabilizes a bit before building profiles again.

[GWGill]

almost forgot to update... CC24 ColorChecker Classic November 2014 edition = I averaged many measurements with argyll, with patchtool XRGA and patchtool non-XRGA modes... I still see consistent differences between all 3 (averaged) that are more than expected... even Graeme posted somthing that there shall be none.

I said that the i1pro2 is native XRGA. That doesn't mean that there is no difference between XRGA and legacy Gretag mode, as X-Rites library is used to convert the other way too. I would expect little difference between patchtool XRGA and Argyll, and differences between patchtool GRMB and Argyll/XRGA for the i1pro2. But I'm not sure that taking multiple measurements and averaging them is sufficiently accurate to come to any conclusions.
The only way I got consistent enough measurements for this type of analysis was to arrange it so the instrument wasn't moved on the color patch between comparisons, and making sure that the lamp had cooled down for a consistent time between readings.
[ This meant doing: calibrate using Argyll, change drivers, calibrate using the OEM driver, place on patch and measure, change drivers, measure using Argyll using -N. ]

[AlterEgo]

That doesn't mean that there is no difference between XRGA and legacy Gretag mode, as X-Rites library is used to convert the other way too.

why would X-Rite go to legacy Gretag mode through software corrections of native XRGA data instead of going to legacy X-Rite mode ? it seems that X-Rite when introducing XRGA was clearly favoring their own legacy X-Rite instruments vs legacy Gretag - buy that logic in non XRGA mode they shall emulate their own legacy calibration...

[torger]

Do I understand it correctly that the C1-9 issues may be due to stability problems with C1-9 and we should wait a while and see what happens? I know from experience that Capture One's first major releases are often a bit buggy to start with. I only have C1-7 myself and as I don't really use C1 regularly I did not plan to upgrade if I don't have to. Let me know if there are issues.

[torger]

With all the documentation and the builds, it's quite easy to use the program and even to play with. One thing I would change although in the C1 easy way section: Create the CC24.tif and the curve.tif just together at the beginning. For all the non-tech-user that is less confusing.

The difficult thing is to make a good CC24 file. Maybe you can advise to make the first profile with an example (and give a link to some files), just to understand the process first. I'm still working on a "perfect" version from my own camera.
I'm in touch now with solux now. They can send me some with UPS. Do you think it's worth to order a 5000k instead of a 4700k version? Or does it not matter at all? Or should I wait until a weekend with a sunny day to make an outdoor profile? And it's a shame to ask that: Should the sun shine on the CC24 (of course outside the family of angles and not directed toward the sky)?

I'm wondering how the profiles will work with the new C1... As soon as I'm at home I will update and check.

seb

Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into the workflow.

If you have the ability to run the lamp on overdrive the 5000K is probably not adding any value, as you can push the 4700K lamp to that temperature anyway. With a fixed 12 volt lamp fixture I'd get the 5000K if I could. It's generally a bit easier to avoid glare in an indoor setup than outdoors, but with the CC24 and the glare compensation feature of DCamProf the outdoor result should be good too.

If you want a ~5000K shot the midday sun should shine on the CC24. If you want ~6500K shot the CC24 should be in the shadow. If you're like me located in Sweden, or even worse northern Sweden this time of year I don't think we ever get proper midday light so I'd prefer shooting indoor with a Solux.

[AlterEgo]

Do I understand it correctly that the C1-9 issues may be due to stability problems with C1-9 and we should wait a while and see what happens? I know from experience that Capture One's first major releases are often a bit buggy to start with. I only have C1-7 myself and as I don't really use C1 regularly I did not plan to upgrade if I don't have to. Let me know if there are issues.

myself I did not see any issues (PC/Win8.1x64) - but then I do not have use catalogs... I only use one dummy session, as I use C1 a-la ACR.

PS: P1 dealer = https://captureintegration.com/capture-one-pro-9-0-tested-approved/ ... they tend to write if bugs happening with new releases, even they are P1 dealer.