Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Khurram on November 18, 2005, 02:00:50 am
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does anyone know what the release date is for the D200??
can anyone recall whether in the past has releases by Nikon affected Canon pricing??. I'm looking at finally going digital within the next month (leaning strongly toward the 1DIIN, but still considering the 5D bcoz of the FFS and extra megapixals), and wondering if there may be some price movement during that period.
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The worldwide release date of the D200 is only a few weeks after the DVD availability of Start Wars Episode III, meaning on Dec 16th.
The Canon believers' official talk is that the 5D is not in the same category as the D200 because it is full frame, there will therefore probably not be any price drop. :-)
The 1dIIn being a sport camera, it is also probably in a different enough niche that there will be no price drop either.
The only likely price drop will be on the 20D IMHO.
Cheers,
Bernard
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A typical sign that Canon is planning to drop the list price is rebate checks appearing against products in the US. At the moment the 5D price seems to have stabalised on the streets and whilst there are rebate checks against lenses purchased with the 5D I haven't seen any discounting against the 5D body itself. So it is unlikely that there will be any discounting at this stage or for the near future.
Also, I would expect that the Canon marketing department already factored in the D200 pricing before launching the 5D. They may or may not have got the sums correct, but i would not expect them to make any adjustments in response to the D200 launch until after christmas/ towards easter when the market slows down.
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A typical sign that Canon is planning to drop the list price is rebate checks appearing against products in the US. At the moment the 5D price seems to have stabalised on the streets and whilst there are rebate checks against lenses purchased with the 5D I haven't seen any discounting against the 5D body itself. So it is unlikely that there will be any discounting at this stage or for the near future.
Also, I would expect that the Canon marketing department already factored in the D200 pricing before launching the 5D. They may or may not have got the sums correct, but i would not expect them to make any adjustments in response to the D200 launch until after christmas/ towards easter when the market slows down.
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if it is going to be that long, then i guess, i'll stil go ahead and make the purchase early/mid december as planned - assuming i can decide which camera i'm going with
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does anyone know what the release date is for the D200??
15 December. In the UK anyway. According to a UK shop. When they will be shipping in large quantities is another issue. Leif
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>> leaning strongly toward the 1DIIN, but still considering the 5D bcoz of the FFS and extra megapixals
If I had to choose between these two, I'd get the former. I just bought a used 1D as my first DSLR instead of the 20D and I don't regret it one bit. Ergonomics and AF are beyond reproach.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
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congrats on entering the digital world, what lenses did you end up with? (You know me as Ben Rubinstein on photo.net)
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does anyone know what the release date is for the D200??
can anyone recall whether in the past has releases by Nikon affected Canon pricing??. I'm looking at finally going digital within the next month (leaning strongly toward the 1DIIN, but still considering the 5D bcoz of the FFS and extra megapixals), and wondering if there may be some price movement during that period.
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Forgive my ignorance, but what are the specifics regarding the Canon D200. I have not heard anything about it yet.
Dr. gary
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it's a nikon which should help your search! www.dpreview.com for details
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congrats on entering the digital world, what lenses did you end up with? (You know me as Ben Rubinstein on photo.net)
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i haven't got anything new yet.
I just sold my 24-70F2.8L about a month back and am on a waiting list for the 24-105 F4L.
already have the 16-35L and the 70-200F2.8L IS. i've finally sold my 1vHS, so in two weeks will be getting the 1DIIN - i already know, i'm going to miss not being able to shoot at 16-21mm.
I'm still toying with the idea of the sigma 10-24 (or is it 12-24mm) that is built for film cameras. but i'll probably wait until 4-5 mths after getting the camera, or until i'm comfortable enough with the camera to run some tests on the lens
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I was talking to Yakim who has been ready to make the jump for a while.
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The worldwide release date of the D200 is only a few weeks after the DVD availability of Start Wars Episode III, meaning on Dec 16th.
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I bought the Star Wars Episode III DVD from City Centre shopping mall in Muscat, Oman, one week ago. It's out indeed.
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Its all speculation but I have to believe other camera prices will be impacted by the D200. Nikon has raised the bar for what one can get at the price point of this camera. This of course is conditional on image quality, will have to wait and see.
Pre-announcing the D200 might have slowed down 5D sales, maybe not from others invested in Canon but others with no stake in either system have to be waiting. If the 5D is viewed as a huge success by Canon, price won't change. But if disappointing, the price will come down. They will either have to do this or the 20D replacement will have to meet the D200 head on. We win either way.
Maybe even the high end model prices will fall if their sales are impacted by these new mid-priced models.
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The 5D is ludicrously overpriced even without the D200. With the D200 on the market there will be no market at all for the 5D apart from the dilettantes who will buy anything either Canon or Nikon makes. (I can buy a D200 and a 70-200 VR for a couple of hundred dollars more - and I'm going to - despite having two 10Ds and a 20D right now.)
The 5D is really a camera without a purpose. 99% of the photographers out there don't need a full-frame sensor now that there are so many ultra-wides designed specifically since digital came out - and 95% don't need the extra resolution (though we might all like to have it, very few can actually justify the cost from any rational business standpoint). In short it's just playing to the amateur market's obsession with the "cool" factors of digital: megapixels and sensor size.
There's a niche for the 5D - but you'd be crazy to pay more than $1K more for it than a 20D.
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Try working with one for a week or two, make some prints, and then see if your firmly held beliefs are still so entrenched.
About a dozen of the photographers on my Antarctic Expedition were using 5Ds, and almost all also have 1Ds or 1Ds MKII bodies as well. What was amusing was how often the discussions at dinner turned to how astonishingly good the 5D images were - especially when it comes to low noise, all the way up to ISO 1600.
Without doubt the Nikon 200 will be an exceptionally fine camera, and it will put price pressure on the 5D, but the DSLR market is a fluid one, and there is a major trade show just around the corner.
Michael
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The 5D is ludicrously overpriced even without the D200. With the D200 on the market there will be no market at all for the 5D apart from the dilettantes who will buy anything either Canon or Nikon makes. (I can buy a D200 and a 70-200 VR for a couple of hundred dollars more - and I'm going to - despite having two 10Ds and a 20D right now.)
The 5D is really a camera without a purpose. 99% of the photographers out there don't need a full-frame sensor now that there are so many ultra-wides designed specifically since digital came out - and 95% don't need the extra resolution (though we might all like to have it, very few can actually justify the cost from any rational business standpoint). In short it's just playing to the amateur market's obsession with the "cool" factors of digital: megapixels and sensor size.
There's a niche for the 5D - but you'd be crazy to pay more than $1K more for it than a 20D.
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I suspect that most Canon users have been gripped by the full frame frenzy and would not agree with you. There are many people dismissing Nikon as outdated, and unable to comprehend that the Nikon D200 could come anywhere near the Canon 5D. I think I know who has won the marketing wars.
Leif
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Without doubt the Nikon 200 will be an exceptionally fine camera, and it will put price pressure on the 5D, but the DSLR market is a fluid one, and there is a major trade show just around the corner.
Michael
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Groan, oh no! Not the Michael, nudge, nudge, wink, wink smiley just before February PMA. I guess there will be no beans spilt yet then
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As a Canon user who didn't invest in "digital specific" glass (EF-S or 3rd party) then full frame makes a lot of sense. I get my wide angle back and my 28-70 f/2.8 becomes a useful general-purpose zoom again, rather than a slightly awkward 45-110 lens.
So, not having to replace my 16-35 and 28-70 with the 10-22 and 17-85 has saved around £1000, and I would have had to buy a 20D to use them anyway -another £1000.
So for the same price as a 20D and two digital lenses I can get a 5D with more resolution and even better high ISO performance, that can use my old lenses just fine. Seems like a good deal to me....
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It's kind of a funny shift of irony, I'm one of those new fangled people who all the camera they've ever known has been with a 1.5 or 1.6 factor. Everyone talks about how much they want the Full Frame cameras so their "70-200 will acctually be a 70-200 and their 50's will really be 50s".
As for me, I don't want a full frame since then my 70-200's wont really be 70-200 and my 50s wont be 50s....
(Im hoping that makes sense to you, my sense of humor can be somewhat skewed)
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I suspect that most Canon users have been gripped by the full frame frenzy and would not agree with you. There are many people dismissing Nikon as outdated, and unable to comprehend that the Nikon D200 could come anywhere near the Canon 5D. I think I know who has won the marketing wars.
Leif
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You mean Nikon? Since that is the only company that have customers claiming that they have the only right sensor size, all other sizes sucks.
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... I'm one of those new fangled people who all the camera they've ever known has been with a 1.5 or 1.6 factor.
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That comment is interesting, coming soon after my talk of an ongoing generational transition in another thread:
[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9457&st=20]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....opic=9457&st=20[/url]
I have read that we have reached the stage where the majority of SLR buyers have never owned a FSLR (that's F for film), and have never owned lenses for 35mm format.
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... I'm one of those new fangled people who all the camera they've ever known has been with a 1.5 or 1.6 factor
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I'm in the same boat as you . I'm wondering how my 1DmkII will affect what I do...dropping to 1.3x. I probably won't notice too much, but I am thinking about getting the teleconverter just incase.
I do have an F4 thats full frame but I only have a 50mm 1.2 that I use on it (manual focus woo!)
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Well, I am seeing a general drop in the 5D price to US $2999 today (Adorama). I would guess that is a response to the D200.
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anyone forsee a drop in the 1D mk II N price at all? Doubt it but hopefully. I haven't watched the market for long enough to know when to expect one.
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Not until the MkIII 1-series body or bodies have been announced.
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I guess when the D200 came out with its professional quality body, weather sealing etc., Canon was caught on the wrong foot.
Typically, when developing a new product, companies have more than one version of the product available, one of which will become the final product. I bet Canon had a "weather sealed" version without built-in flash, a weather-sealed version with built-in flash and the current version. During the final review with the bean-counters, they decided to finalize the non-weather sealed version without the built-in flash, correctly surmising that the "full-frame" would sell the product.
Nikon also probably had a few versions on the table and after Canon announced their final version, they quickly put their D200 "weather-sealed" version with built-in flash at an attractive pricepoint, and then made final adjustments to the manufacturing line, accordingly.
Now Canon has to suitably reply when they come out with the 20D replacement. Since the 5D has come out with the "weaker" non-weather sealed format, the 20D replacement cannot one-up it on that score.
So based on the above, the only way Canon can grab the spotlight back, would be to put a 35mm sized sensor in the 20D replacement, with around 10.4MP resolution and the pixel pitch of the 5D and the built-in flash but without weather-sealing etc. Leave the cropped-sensors to the "Digital Rebel" arena. At a pricepoint of around $1900-2100, it would sell very well. But that will cannibalize sales from the 5D, I would suppose.
Just a conjecture...
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I guess when the D200 came out with its professional quality body, weather sealing etc., Canon was caught on the wrong foot.
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Nikon also probably had a few versions on the table and after Canon announced their final version, they quickly put their D200 "weather-sealed" version with built-in flash at an attractive pricepoint, and then made final adjustments to the manufacturing line, accordingly.
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I have heard a rumor that the reason for the 200D, it's weather sealing and it's price point is becuse Nikon have lost the professional market to Canon, and that the 200D can have the weather sealing and functions without having an impact on the sales of the expensive professional cameras from Nikon as that is a loosing market for Nikon anyway. I have no idea if this is true. The 200D is a tuff competion in the amateur segment, and maybe even in the proffesional segment since the price is so low.
Is there anybody that know the salesnumbers of the different model from Canon an Nikon?
So based on the above, the only way Canon can grab the spotlight back, would be to put a 35mm sized sensor in the 20D replacement, with around 10.4MP resolution and the pixel pitch of the 5D and the built-in flash but without weather-sealing etc. Leave the cropped-sensors to the "Digital Rebel" arena. At a pricepoint of around $1900-2100, it would sell very well. But that will cannibalize sales from the 5D, I would suppose.
Just a conjecture...
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I think you are rigth, if Canon makes a camera with weather sealing they will canibalise there profressional (1D) sales.
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i dont see it really. you cant beat a professional camera. with what your saying we should also see a major drop in price of the D2x as well...which i think is doubtful. i dont see pros shooting mainly with a D200...
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i dont see it really. you cant beat a professional camera. with what your saying we should also see a major drop in price of the D2x as well...which i think is doubtful. i dont see pros shooting mainly with a D200...
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Well, you could argue that Nikon are dropping the price of the D2X, as part of a combo at least. There are $500 rebates if you spend more than $500 on lenses when you buy a new D2X today.
As a D2X shooter I have to agree with the economic argument of DX format Nikon vs Canon - you can get a D2X ensemble for less than a 1DsII body, similarly with the D200. It was worth my while to move from Canon 20D and some L glass back to Nikon for these very reasons.
AS regards not seeing many pros shooting D200's ... I think you'll be surprised. Just take a look at how many use D100's/D70's or 10D/20D/5D's today. You don't HAVE to have the top spec DSLR to earn a living ... particularly if photojourno/field work don't figure in your usage.
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AS regards not seeing many pros shooting D200's ... I think you'll be surprised. Just take a look at how many use D100's/D70's or 10D/20D/5D's today. You don't HAVE to have the top spec DSLR to earn a living ... particularly if photojourno/field work don't figure in your usage.
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Nicely said. I've used a lowly N80 before I switched to digital and then a D70 and now as soon as I can get one a D200. I'm not sure why everyone thinks that professional photographers always use the so-called PRO cameras. Whatever gets the job done and keeps the clients happy.
BTW, the late Galen Rowell used a FM-10 for many of his images.
Bryan
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If anyone is contemplating buying into 1DSMK11 vs Nikon D200 or D2X, I suggest seriously doing some research and look at how each system performs on both edge to edge sharpness and light falloff at the edges. Do your own tests if you can befor you buy.
I will make no comment here, other than to suggest do the research.