Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: boogotti on August 10, 2014, 05:41:14 pm
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hi,
im looking to get into medium format film, and looking at the Mamiya camera range.
Would be used for portraits and general stuff.. im not two worried about speed of setting up. Please note i dont know much about theses cameras just what i have read on the web so if you guys can advise from you experience would be greatly appreciated.
would really like to mount the fastest lens, is that the 110mm f2.8 or Mamiya SEKOR C 80mm f1.9?
mamiya RB67
Pro
i like the fact the no batteries,
Con:
But would like to mount a 110 mm f/2.8 lens, from what i understand you cant? is that correct?
mamiya RZ67
Pro:
can mount 110 mm f/2.8 lens lens
con:
Batteries
shutter @ 400 max?
mamiya 645 Pro Tl
i dont know much about this camera so please can you help
Pro:
can mount 110 mm f/2.8 lens
shutter 1/1000
con:
Batteries
smaller film back not 6x7 (is that correct?)
i think im leaning towards mamiya RZ67, because bigger 6x7 film, can mount 110 mm f/2.8 fast lens.
Can the mamiya 645 Pro Tl mount the 110 mm f/2.8 fast lens? and can do 6x7?
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Of the options you have listed, I'd go with the RZ mainly because it's the most recent model from this line. I've used Fujichrome Provia 100f since it was introduced and have always been pleased with it. I've used the Pentax 67ii for more than ten years (the model 67, before that). If you're considering a true medium format film camera the Pentax system is very reliable and durable. There's a great complement of excellent lenses available for it through re-sellers (KEH, B&H, etc.) to cover a wide range of focal lengths in progressive increments. Whatever you choose, I wish you a satisfying and productive experience.
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Thank you Codger,
This is going to be more of a hobby exercise, so budget is not too high for this.
I havent shot much film be for
As for Pentax 67ii what the lowest f stop lens can i get for it equivalent as 50mm on a 35mm slr? (i dont know much the lens range for pentax)
How does the mamiya RZ67 compare with the mamiya 645 Pro Tl? any advice?
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These are two completely different beasts. The RZ is a 6x7cm format camera while the 645 is 4,5x6cm. The RZ has a leaf shutter that is controlled by the electronics of the camera, the 1/400 is a fast as they could go at that time but this has never been a limit for us. RB is full mechanic, the RZ will accept the RB lenses (minus the electronic) In the RZ line there are lot of characterful lenses, so you´ll already guess it, I´d suggest to take the RZ route. One thing to consider though, a 120 film has 10 exposures…
Cheers, Ulf
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These are two completely different beasts. The RZ is a 6x7cm format camera while the 645 is 4,5x6cm. The RZ has a leaf shutter that is controlled by the electronics of the camera, the 1/400 is a fast as they could go at that time but this has never been a limit for us. RB is full mechanic, the RZ will accept the RB lenses (minus the electronic) In the RZ line there are lot of characterful lenses, so you´ll already guess it, I´d suggest to take the RZ route. One thing to consider though, a 120 film has 10 exposures…
Cheers, Ulf
Thanks Ulf,
Great for clearing up that, yes im after 6x7 format, 10 shots thats on 120flim. So can you shoot 6x7 and 6x6 on 120 film?
i was looking at Bronica SQ-Ai, its a 6x6 hows the lenses with Bronica? compare with RZ67?
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Have you considered going for a 6x9 LF type camera with a 6x9 film back?
In my view that it much more fun! But it depends on what you want to do with it obviously.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Have you considered going for a 6x9 LF type camera with a 6x9 film back?
In my view that it much more fun! But it depends on what you want to do with it obviously.
Cheers,
Bernard
Thats sounds interesting, im guess LF lenses and cameras is expensive?
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I´m not familiar with Bronica, sorry for that. Regarding the film, yes 120 was the standard medium format film. Based on the camera or film back used you could have various sizes from 4,5x6 up to 6x12, I think even 6x18 was an option for large format. The 220 film size is "double length" so you´d have more exposures here. Not sure what or if it is available any more, we switched to digital many years ago.
Cheers, Ulf
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thank you Ulf,
Im leaning towards RZ67,
Any lenses you recommend for the camera? or lenses to start with.
Going to be taking portraits, street photography and small amount of landscapes.
whats your favourite film stock?
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I'll second the recommendation for a Mamiya RZ67. I had one for a while and it's a great camera, albeit fairly heavy. Maybe not exactly ideal for street photography but would be great for portraiture. Plan on using a tripod whenever possible, it just makes the camera that much easier to use.
For lenses, I would start with the 110mm f/2.8. Fastest aperture, smallest and lightest, is a "normal" focal length and is very sharp (well, all of the lenses are sharp).
For wides I'd look at the 50mm ULD or the 65mm L-A depending on how wide you need and your budget. For a portrait lens I really liked the 150mm f/3.5. The 140mm L-A macro is also very well regarded, if perhaps a bit short for tighter headshots. The 180mm was good too, but a bit longer physically and bulky. Don't forget to look at the W vs W-N versions when buying lenses. The W-N is newer and generally preferable.
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If you are doing portraits I would actually recommend the Mamiya RB with a 6x8 back (which gives full 6x8 in portrait orientation). At least for me the 6x7 format can sometimes too "square" (other people love 6x6, so your milage may vary). The lenses are cheap too. While you loose about 2/3 stops of light compared to the RZ lenses, for DOF it hardly matters - it is very, very thin anyways. For "street photography" I would say only the 645 Pro TL is an option - both the RZ and RB are heavy to carry around, and will gain a lot of attention.
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Not sure a RZ is what you what for street shots, big, heavy, sticks out like a 400/2.8. Might look more to the Mamiya or something like the Fuji GW690 or the like, as it's more traditional looking while still medium format. The RB is much heavier than the RZ, and while fully mechanical, the battery situation on the RZ isn't huge - if dead the shutter is set to 1/400th. Realize that the 1/400th is a lens/leaf shutter, so your strobes will sync at that speed, while the focal plane shutter in the 645 can't sync all that fast, and you may need to rely on a LS lens if using studio lights.
Keep in mind the 35mm equivalent of the RB/RZ lenses is 1/2 the focal length, so the 110mm is really like a 55mm.
The questions I have for you are:
-Are you going to carry multiple speeds of film that you'd switch between mid-roll
-Do you have any interest in shooting the Fuji Polaroid pack film
The RB/RZ are fully manual cameras, while the Mamiya 645's can be had with metering and AF. f2.8 in the MF world is REALLY shallow, where even the act of pressing the shutter button can mess up your focus. Have fun shooting what ever you end up with.
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Not sure a RZ is what you what for street shots, big, heavy, sticks out like a 400/2.8. Might look more to the Mamiya or something like the Fuji GW690 or the like, as it's more traditional looking while still medium format. The RB is much heavier than the RZ, and while fully mechanical, the battery situation on the RZ isn't huge - if dead the shutter is set to 1/400th. Realize that the 1/400th is a lens/leaf shutter, so your strobes will sync at that speed, while the focal plane shutter in the 645 can't sync all that fast, and you may need to rely on a LS lens if using studio lights.
Keep in mind the 35mm equivalent of the RB/RZ lenses is 1/2 the focal length, so the 110mm is really like a 55mm.
The questions I have for you are:
-Are you going to carry multiple speeds of film that you'd switch between mid-roll
-Do you have any interest in shooting the Fuji Polaroid pack film
The RB/RZ are fully manual cameras, while the Mamiya 645's can be had with metering and AF. f2.8 in the MF world is REALLY shallow, where even the act of pressing the shutter button can mess up your focus. Have fun shooting what ever you end up with.
Thank you Joe,
I havent shot medium format film before, this is a personal voyage. This will be used for personal work. so my priority is
Image quality mainly, im not concerned about weight or how compact the camera is. As would like quality in the images, and happy to taking my time taking the shot (fun part for me) than ease of use/ quick.
This would not be used as a main camera just for personal,general to light use.
I decided to move to medium format as im kind of bored of digital 35mm and hate the bitty feel and look/ the way digital handles highlights. Not too sure what film im going to shoot with at the moment, im thinking ilford b&w and KodakPortra.
As this is a personal hobby of mine im/ and not my job, im on and bit of a budget :(
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Thank you Joe,
I havent shot medium format film before, this is a personal voyage. This will be used for personal work. so my priority is
Image quality mainly, im not concerned about weight or how compact the camera is. As would like quality in the images, and happy to taking my time taking the shot (fun part for me) than ease of use/ quick.
This would not be used as a main camera just for personal,general to light use.
I decided to move to medium format as im kind of bored of digital 35mm and hate the bitty feel and look/ the way digital handles highlights. Not too sure what film im going to shoot with at the moment, im thinking ilford b&w and KodakPortra.
As this is a personal hobby of mine im/ and not my job, im on and bit of a budget :(
Perfect! Then we have a lot in common with the fun with film. I rented a RZ setup and shot 100iso neg and 400iso slide in addition to 100pack film. I ended up getting a Fuji GX680 III off of ebay pretty cheap, partly because if I'm going to take the time to shoot film, I want to compose it and have a lot more options with the movements possible. That and I'm an adapter plate away from putting my Hasselblad 50MP back onto it if I really want to get crazy. I almost got a RZ, but carrying one around along with my Hasselblad H4D was quite a chore, so I decided to go larger so I can't be tempted to pack it along as well.
Going with a 6x7 or 6x8 frame size means I won't fit as many frames per roll, but that means I get film processed more frequently. Going a 645 route would allow for more straight forward 'add a digital back' to an existing setup - but there are specific pairing requirements with what model body with what model back.
If I was just shooting film, sticking to a single speed, looking for the easiest method, I'd look at the Fuji GA645Zi/GA645W. Yes, they're not interchangeable lenses, but it's something I would put in a bag with my digital kit and always have with me - the most important thing.
-Joe
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Thank you Joe,
I havent shot medium format film before, this is a personal voyage. This will be used for personal work. so my priority is
Image quality mainly, im not concerned about weight or how compact the camera is. As would like quality in the images, and happy to taking my time taking the shot (fun part for me) than ease of use/ quick.
This would not be used as a main camera just for personal,general to light use.
I decided to move to medium format as im kind of bored of digital 35mm and hate the bitty feel and look/ the way digital handles highlights. Not too sure what film im going to shoot with at the moment, im thinking ilford b&w and KodakPortra.
As this is a personal hobby of mine im/ and not my job, im on and bit of a budget :(
I would recommend a Pentax 6x7. It is a very easy and fun camera to use and take along. It is just like a 35mm SLR but larger and heavier. The lenses are pretty good and a full kit can be had for very little money. Loading film is pretty simple. No need to mess about with removable film backs. With the prism finder you compose and focus just like any manual film 35mm slr but a Waist level finder is available.
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I have the RZII - and its a fun camera - with quite decent lenses too. The big advantage of the the RZ is the low price and a big viewfinder. The large viewfinder is one of the best things about the MF experience, besides the large negative/file. Leaf shutters maybe the 2nd best thing about MF. Back to Mamiya - I'd take the RZ over the RB and the 645 any day with maybe the exception of the 7ii rangefinder (but its downfall is that you can't focus very close).
But if I didn't have to stick with a mamiya, then I'd suggest you look at a TLR instead. Loads of people still shoot with the Rolleiflex TLR's. It's a great film camera. Actually there is a Mamiya TLR - the 330 if I'm not mistaken?
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But if I didn't have to stick with a mamiya, then I'd suggest you look at a TLR instead. Loads of people still shoot with the Rolleiflex TLR's. It's a great film camera. Actually there is a Mamiya TLR - the 330 if I'm not mistaken?
+1
I have a Fuji GX680 III and a Mamiya TLR, the 220. Whenever I feel like gorgeous, sharp images with excellent out of focus qualities and don't mind the relatively slow speed, I use the Fuji. Whenever I feel like a fun camera with lenses that are not as sharp, but which have a very nice look, I grab the Mamiya TLR. The 105mm 3.5 is a lovely lens. I chose the 220 over the 330 as it is less "automatic" and therefore (I hope) more sturdy.
If you are not stuck with Mamiya I would also give the Fuji serious consideration. The image quality is outstanding, and the movement comes in handy more often than I had thought.
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Hi,
What are you going to do with your analog images? Scanning film is not really fun, and you may need drum scanning to make your images justice.
Best regards
Erik
Thank you Joe,
I havent shot medium format film before, this is a personal voyage. This will be used for personal work. so my priority is
Image quality mainly, im not concerned about weight or how compact the camera is. As would like quality in the images, and happy to taking my time taking the shot (fun part for me) than ease of use/ quick.
This would not be used as a main camera just for personal,general to light use.
I decided to move to medium format as im kind of bored of digital 35mm and hate the bitty feel and look/ the way digital handles highlights. Not too sure what film im going to shoot with at the moment, im thinking ilford b&w and KodakPortra.
As this is a personal hobby of mine im/ and not my job, im on and bit of a budget :(
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I have a Fuji GX 680 III also and a very nice camera indeed, but if the RZ is big and heavy then the Fuji is a monster. Very nice quality to the lenses on that camera though, I'd agree. But if you open the door to big heavy cameras, why not consider a Linhof Tech 70 or Technika 4x5 with the roll film back? I have pretty much all the technika's - 70, 220, 4x5, and 13x18 and they are quite reasonable in price now. The lenses are quite lovely in their rendering as well. Sometimes i use my digital backs with the technika's for their character and also the movements (and not resolution).
I have a lot of cameras but my favorites are still the Rolleiflex's obviously.
And shooting film is great fun! A lot depends on one's attitude probably. I like the look of film a lot, but also enjoy the process. You don't need drum scanning - that's silly. For the few that you need to print really big, either have analog prints made or get a drum scan.
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Thank you guys for sharing your wonderful experience guys,
The Fuji GX 680 III is a beast :), maybe too big for what im looking for :)
i never really knew you could get cameras this big for medium format
After reading your posts, and having a think.
I think it makes sense for me to go for either:
Mamiya 645 Pro TL
or
Mamiya RZ67, this the biggest size i can go for a camera
What im looking for is great bokeh so a 2.8 would be good eough?, Are the Mamiya RZ67 lenes bigger so can achieve more bokeh?
what i like about these cameras is the film back so i can have two film stock e.g colour and b&W swap them out.
As for the pentax 6x7, i like the waist level view finder, and the pentax 6x7 doest have that?
Also not sure how the lenses compare with the Mamiya, im looking for big bokeh.
i dont know much about lens for both of these cameras looking forward to your feedback :)
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Thank you guys for sharing your wonderful experience guys,
The Fuji GX 680 III is a beast :), maybe too big for what im looking for :)
i never really knew you could get cameras this big for medium format
After reading your posts, and having a think.
I think it makes sense for me to go for either:
Mamiya 645 Pro TL
or
Mamiya RZ67, this the biggest size i can go for a camera
What im looking for is great bokeh so a 2.8 would be good eough?, Are the Mamiya RZ67 lenes bigger so can achieve more bokeh?
what i like about these cameras is the film back so i can have two film stock e.g colour and b&W swap them out.
As for the pentax 6x7, i like the waist level view finder, and the pentax 6x7 doest have that?
Also not sure how the lenses compare with the Mamiya, im looking for big bokeh.
i dont know much about lens for both of these cameras looking forward to your feedback :)
I had the pentax 90mm f2.8 and had really soft background blur, looked awesome. I used it a lot wide open and ta the point of focus it was sharp. The 165mm had a softer, dreamier look, great for portraits but not for landscapes. I used the waist level finder a lot but generally preferred the prism.
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What im looking for is great bokeh so a 2.8 would be good eough?, Are the Mamiya RZ67 lenes bigger so can achieve more bokeh?
I'm of the mindset that if you are going to shoot film you should shoot the biggest format size you can. :)
Don't underestimate the format size difference between 6x7 vs 645. It's about a crop factor of 1.23. That applies to depth of field too, so the RZ67 will use longer lenses and have shallower depth of field for a given aperture. So a 80mm f/2.8 lens on 645 is about the same as a 100mm f/3.4 lens on the RZ67. So a 110mm f/2.8 on the RZ will be both slightly longer and have shallower depth of field than the 80mm f/2.8 on the 645. To compare the RZ67 to a regular full frame 35mm camera, the 110mm f/2.8 is roughly equivalent to a 50mm f/1.4 lens for field of view and depth of field.
Or to simplify... the Mamiya RZ67 is going to give you better results than the 645. Sharper, more resolution, and more bokeh.
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Have you considered the Mamiya AF series?
Built in metered prism (not interchangeable) but very robust body build in exchange. Interchangeable backs (film or digital) and accepts all of Mamiya's medium format lenses, whether AF or the legacy manual focus ones.
I have two bodies, one Mamiya 645 AF, and one Mamiya 645 AFD II. I am selling the 645AF with two lenses without a film back at a good price. I can answer any questions about this system if you have any.
Just let me know.
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I'm of the mindset that if you are going to shoot film you should shoot the biggest format size you can. :)
Don't underestimate the format size difference between 6x7 vs 645. [...]
Or to simplify... the Mamiya RZ67 is going to give you better results than the 645. Sharper, more resolution, and more bokeh.
I would agree with both Eric and Sheldon. If you don't mind a slower MF experience and want as much of an "MF film look" as you can get, go for the largest format you can. Personally I would still consider the GX680 over the Mamiya. It is larger than the RZ, but neither of them is small and light enough (in my opinion) to be used as a walk-around camera or not to require a monopod at the very least. The additional size of the Fuji then buys you tilt and shift with any lens you get for it. This is surprisingly useful for portraits! You can also get the truly outstanding 180mm 3.2 lens. Some people prefer the ergonomics of the RZ, though.
The only advantage of a 645 is that you can use it more like you would use a 35mm camera.
The third alternative is a TLR. They are relatively light, work excellently as walk-around cameras. They won't have the resolution of the RZ, but you still get the MF look with much less weight. Are they better than a 645? Who knows. Personally I prefer shooting with my Mamiya C220 over the Pentax 645, which honestly surprised me, but this is very much a matter of taste.
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Rule out a walk around camera? Confined to a tripod? Just go all in and get yourself an 8x10 film camera!
My Kodak 2D 8x10 is lighter than a Fuji GX680 or than my multi-lens RZ67 kit was. I don't have a darkroom but I can develop film in the laundry room sink and scan it on my flatbed, and I don't think I paid any more for it than I did my RZ kit. :)
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I'm of the mindset that if you are going to shoot film you should shoot the biggest format size you can. :)
Don't underestimate the format size difference between 6x7 vs 645. It's about a crop factor of 1.23. That applies to depth of field too, so the RZ67 will use longer lenses and have shallower depth of field for a given aperture. So a 80mm f/2.8 lens on 645 is about the same as a 100mm f/3.4 lens on the RZ67. So a 110mm f/2.8 on the RZ will be both slightly longer and have shallower depth of field than the 80mm f/2.8 on the 645. To compare the RZ67 to a regular full frame 35mm camera, the 110mm f/2.8 is roughly equivalent to a 50mm f/1.4 lens for field of view and depth of field.
Or to simplify... the Mamiya RZ67 is going to give you better results than the 645. Sharper, more resolution, and more bokeh.
If you don't mind a slower MF experience and want as much of an "MF film look" as you can get, go for the largest format you can. .
The only advantage of a 645 is that you can use it more like you would use a 35mm camera.
The third alternative is a TLR. They are relatively light, work excellently as walk-around cameras. They won't have the resolution of the RZ, but you still get the MF look with much less weight. Are they better than a 645? Who knows. Personally I prefer shooting with my Mamiya C220 over the Pentax 645, which honestly surprised me, but this is very much a matter of taste.
The RZ67 is the right / biggest size which im happy with.
I have decided RZ67 it is with 110mm F2.8 :)
Just wanted to ask is it worth getting the RZ67 Pro II? Or would the RZ67 Pro I be ok?
Any advice buying one? anything to look out for?
thank you guys help me decide :)
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I own both the Fuji GX680 II with a few lenses (including the MASSIVE GX 100-200mm zoom lens), and also, as stated above, two Mamiya AF bodies.
Indeed they are completely different systems that are not comparable. They do completely different things, aside from the obvious 'they both take pictures'. The Mamiya will give you medium format size negatives instead of digital files, and that's about it. The look and feel of medium format and film will be there if you're so eager. The Fujifilm, however, will give you a superb photographic experience as you have tilt and shift in all axes with every lens. Much bigger negative size (almost double), and so much movement. Indeed the drawback is size and weight but again, it is a different kind of experience and is not designed to be carried around (despite the fact that they made a neck strap for it).
Just a few days ago I was taking photos of my first sushi, and I used both my Canon and Mamiya ZD digital back. The Mamiya images were superior to the Canon despite using an L lens, but by the end of the day my thought was "I should have used the Fujifilm GX680 for this shoot. I would have got the shot and look that I was after".
I owned the Mamiya RZ67 system for a while without having used it at all. Only took one polaroid shot and I didn't do a good job at it anyway. It was a long time ago, and I did not even know how long polaroids take to process. That being said, I grabbed it, played with it, messed around with it, attached and detached the many accessories that came with it, and then I shifted it to someone else, and I do not think it is a light weight option. If the Fuji's weight is the ONLY option making you choose the RZ over it, then screw the difference and get a Fujifilm because the RZ's lesser weight will not do you any good. It is still not a carry-around camera.
Alternatively, if you insist on carrying whatever camera around then go for the 645 format (there are also 645 rangefinders, very lightweight, did you consider those?)
The difference between RZ67 and Pro II, I think, is that the latter supports digital backs by default. Some say the older RB is better but only because it is mechanical not electronic, so you don't worry about a flat battery depriving you of shutter speeds, and also it is built stronger and heavier.
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I was just looking on B&H and I noticed that the RZ67 has been discontinued:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/347706-REG/Mamiya_212_210_RZ_Professional_Pro_II.html
Does anybody know when that happened? The last time I looked it will still being sold...
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Just wanted to ask is it worth getting the RZ67 Pro II? Or would the RZ67 Pro I be ok?
Pro II has the fine focus knob, which I liked. The other difference is you get half stop shutter speed adjustments, a handy thing. They are cheap so go for the Pro II.
You should be able to get Pro II body/110mm lens/waist level finder/120 film back for around $500-600 on ebay with a little patience.
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hi,
im looking to get into medium format film, and looking at the Mamiya camera range.
Would be used for portraits and general stuff.. im not two worried about speed of setting up. Please note i dont know much about theses cameras just what i have read on the web so if you guys can advise from you experience would be greatly appreciated.
would really like to mount the fastest lens, is that the 110mm f2.8 or Mamiya SEKOR C 80mm f1.9?
mamiya RB67
Pro
i like the fact the no batteries,
Con:
But would like to mount a 110 mm f/2.8 lens, from what i understand you cant? is that correct?
mamiya RZ67
Pro:
can mount 110 mm f/2.8 lens lens
con:
Batteries
shutter @ 400 max?
mamiya 645 Pro Tl
i dont know much about this camera so please can you help
Pro:
can mount 110 mm f/2.8 lens
shutter 1/1000
con:
Batteries
smaller film back not 6x7 (is that correct?)
i think im leaning towards mamiya RZ67, because bigger 6x7 film, can mount 110 mm f/2.8 fast lens.
Can the mamiya 645 Pro Tl mount the 110 mm f/2.8 fast lens? and can do 6x7?
Hasselblad.