Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Steve Hendrix on June 13, 2014, 01:48:59 PM

Title: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Steve Hendrix on June 13, 2014, 01:48:59 PM
https://captureintegration.com/david-burnett-something-to-behold/

I found some of his observations interesting, especially considering his background.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: amsp on June 13, 2014, 06:27:45 PM
Did the Clarity and HDR sliders get stuck on max settings? I think I need some band-aids for my eyes.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: BobDavid on June 13, 2014, 09:11:55 PM
Did the Clarity and HDR sliders get stuck on max settings? I think I need some band-aids for my eyes.
Agreed. Yuck.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris_Brown on June 13, 2014, 09:54:37 PM
Agreed. Yuck.

Armchair jockeys: Did you even bother to take one minute to browse his web site? He's one of the most accomplished PJ's alive.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: JoeKitchen on June 13, 2014, 10:36:53 PM
Yes, his work is very good and very well known.  

As for the "Clarity and HDR sliders get stuck," let's not forget that he is using a mirror lens, which gives a very distinctive out of focus look and has a fixed f/stop.  The 3rd image was defiantly shot with it and the 1st looks as if it was too.  So that look is probably mainly from the properties of that lens and not anything in post.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Telecaster on June 13, 2014, 11:18:53 PM
So that look is probably mainly from the properties of that lens and not anything in post.

Nah. It's the cranked contrast (clarity), selective desaturation look. In the digital era every look where the processing is blatant quickly turns into a gimmick. That happened a while ago with this look. But judging by how often I see it, it still has commercial impact... Now I'm a strong advocate of "do what you like" when it comes to this stuff, but that doesn't mean I have to like everything.   ;)  So, first-rate photographer or no, I second the "yuck."

-Dave-
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: amsp on June 14, 2014, 02:39:00 AM
Armchair jockeys: Did you even bother to take one minute to browse his web site? He's one of the most accomplished PJ's alive.

Actually, I know exactly who David Burnett is and I've admired his 4x5 work for a long time. That doesn't change the fact that the photos in the article are hideous.


Yes, his work is very good and very well known.  

As for the "Clarity and HDR sliders get stuck," let's not forget that he is using a mirror lens, which gives a very distinctive out of focus look and has a fixed f/stop.  The 3rd image was defiantly shot with it and the 1st looks as if it was too.  So that look is probably mainly from the properties of that lens and not anything in post.

Nope, it's quite obviously the post production. The terrible, jittery bokeh is from the lens though, made even worse by the excessive editing.

Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: JV on June 14, 2014, 10:24:23 AM
Actually, I know exactly who David Burnett is and I've admired his 4x5 work for a long time.

I know him mostly from his Holga work, especially the iconic Al Gore picture:
http://www.davidburnett.com/gallery.html?gallery=Holga+Eye&folio=galleries#/0
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris Livsey on June 14, 2014, 11:21:46 AM
It is an interesting proposition that we would/should judge an image by different standards if we knew who the photographer was.
Surely we remember the (iconic) HCB shots posted on Flickr that were roundly criticised for sharpness (lack of) and composition (poor).
Even the great and the good produce images which vary in quality, however that is evaluated.

I did find his comments interesting particularly on the impact of producing a physically large/impressive MF camera on the subjects.

Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: BobDavid on June 14, 2014, 11:56:52 AM
Armchair jockeys: Did you even bother to take one minute to browse his web site? He's one of the most accomplished PJ's alive.

David Burnett is a fine photographer. The photos in the article are not fine. Armchair jockey? Hardly.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris_Brown on June 15, 2014, 03:29:06 PM
It is an interesting proposition that we would/should judge an image by different standards if we knew who the photographer was.

Agreed, however, even a noob browsing Burnett's web site will see that his work is outstanding. He has brought a fresh look to photojournalism for years.

Apparently using the "clarity slider" is enough for some to blow their vuvuzela in absolute rejection.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: jerome_m on June 15, 2014, 03:44:07 PM
let's not forget that he is using a mirror lens

There are catadioptric lenses for medium format? Which ones?
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: torger on June 15, 2014, 03:47:23 PM
There are trends in digital post-processing, and the time when gimmicky HDR processing with lots of haloing was cool was very short and it was over quite long time ago. Probably it will come back again, like most fashion trends do, but this isn't the time ;)

Anyway, I've seen less-than-good post-processing by excellent photographers before, not all great photographers are great at post-processing. It's an overlapping skill set, but still a very different one.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Ken R on June 15, 2014, 03:52:05 PM
Tough crowd!  8)
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris Livsey on June 15, 2014, 05:23:34 PM
There are catadioptric lenses for medium format? Which ones?

http://www.pentaconsix.com/1000mm.htm

Also Hartblei 500/5.6, Arsat f8 600mm mirror lens, Rubinar f/5.6 500mm mirror lens, Rubinar f/8 500mm mirror lens etc etc (well maybe not two etc)
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 16, 2014, 01:32:23 AM
Actually, I know exactly who David Burnett is and I've admired his 4x5 work for a long time. That doesn't change the fact that the photos in the article are hideous.

Nope, it's quite obviously the post production. The terrible, jittery bokeh is from the lens though, made even worse by the excessive editing.

Thanks for posting.

The article is interesting but I have to agree that those images, the 3rd one in particular, are not that great. The bokeh in the 3rd one may be some of the worst I have ever seen, it almost hurts the eye (I guess that it was shot with the mirror lens, look probably got worsened by web downsizing, but still). The look is also unattractive to my eyes.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: jerome_m on June 16, 2014, 03:42:42 AM
http://www.pentaconsix.com/1000mm.htm

Also Hartblei 500/5.6, Arsat f8 600mm mirror lens, Rubinar f/5.6 500mm mirror lens, Rubinar f/8 500mm mirror lens etc etc (well maybe not two etc)

Thank you. I did not know catadioptric lenses were made to cover the size of MF. It is not easy because the optical formulas used in these lenses and in telescopes are not well adapted to large sensors, this is why I was surprised. In the mean time, and with the help of the names you gave me, I even found a test of some of these lenses: http://www.pentaconsix.com/500_600new2.htm (http://www.pentaconsix.com/500_600new2.htm).
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris_Brown on June 16, 2014, 06:55:02 PM
Quote
Tough crowd!

"I know where you sleep."

(https://captureintegration.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/675_David_B_self.jpg)
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Chris Livsey on June 17, 2014, 02:30:54 AM
"I know where you sleep."

It's his hairdresser I'm afraid of  ;D
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: billthecat on June 17, 2014, 02:38:35 AM
The best photo on that page was the photo of David. The EXIF says it was a GX7.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: [email protected] on June 17, 2014, 07:16:20 AM
I agree about the images used in the Credo link, they are really hard to look at.

I attended a conference where David Burnett spoke and showed his work and had a coffee with him and a few others after - he's a great photographer and speaker. I love some of his images.

Looking at his website and other images he took at Sochi - there are some really good / interesting images in there although I assume that those were not taken with the Credo.. or else why not show those.

Sam
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: tsjanik on July 16, 2014, 11:12:59 AM
I agree with Bernard that the 3rd image, of the women's 50k, is the most jarring of the lot.  I dislike it on the technical aspects of bokeh and color and because of my long time interest in cross country racing. I find the shot completely misses the beauty of the sport.  Since skiing is fluid, it is difficult to capture  the elegance of movement in a still; but to end on a positive, I very much like  this shot from Burnett's site (and many others as well):

http://www.davidburnett.com/gallery.html?gallery=Sochi+2014+-+the+Winter+Games&folio=Galleries&vimeoUserID=&vimeoAlbumID=#/18

Tom
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: Ken R on July 16, 2014, 12:18:35 PM
I agree with Bernard that the 3rd image, of the women's 50k, is the most jarring of the lot.  I dislike it on the technical aspects of bokeh and color and because of my long time interest in cross country racing. I find the shot completely misses the beauty of the sport.  Since skiing is fluid, it is difficult to capture  the elegance of movement in a still; but to end on a positive, I very much like  this shot from Burnett's site (and many others as well):

http://www.davidburnett.com/gallery.html?gallery=Sochi+2014+-+the+Winter+Games&folio=Galleries&vimeoUserID=&vimeoAlbumID=#/18

Tom

There is some nasty vertical banding on a few of the images on that link. I really like some of the compositions (great timing and positioning) on some of the images but really dislike what seems like the post-processing which leads me to believe that on quite a few instances the original files are good and the info is there.

He has an extensive body of work and a lot of is really good but personally I would have been more selective and judicious when deciding which images to post online and how to process them.
Title: Re: David Burnett on using Leaf Credo
Post by: tsjanik on July 16, 2014, 12:47:33 PM
There is some nasty vertical banding on a few of the images on that link. I really like some of the compositions (great timing and positioning) on some of the images but really dislike what seems like the post-processing which leads me to believe that on quite a few instances the original files are good and the info is there.

He has an extensive body of work and a lot of is really good but personally I would have been more selective and judicious when deciding which images to post online and how to process them.

I agree entirely; I noticed the banding too, but thought I'd mentioned enough negatives.  In general too much of the overdone HDR look for my tastes in many of those.  The uncooked ones are very nice, e.g.

http://www.davidburnett.com/gallery.html?gallery=Sochi+2014+-+the+Winter+Games&folio=Galleries&vimeoUserID=&vimeoAlbumID=#/27