Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: Telecaster on April 08, 2014, 12:38:40 am
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Available as of today. As I suspected, it's basically a mobile front end for the desktop/laptop Lr rather than a proper standalone version with syncing capability. Huge disappointment IMO. But it is free, so anyone already owning the current version of Lr can put it to use.
-Dave-
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LRm does having syncing to to/from the desktop via cloud services...
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LRm does having syncing to to/from the desktop via cloud services...
Yes, but it requires desktop/laptop Lr. Syncing to that version as an option: fine & dandy. Requiring it: not so much. I may keep & use the mobile version anyway but I really resent being bound to my desktop when my iPad has the juice to go it alone.
-Dave-
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Your mobil doesn't have the power to handle raw files...that's why you sill need a desktop/laptop. You can import JPEGs from the iPad though.
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Here's the blog post: Lightroom goes mobile with new iPad solution (http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2014/04/lightroom-goes-mobile-with-new-ipad-solution.html).
...and the Lightroom Journal blog post (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/lightroom-mobile-now-available.html).
LRm is included in the Photographer's $9.95 CC bundle...
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Your mobil doesn't have the power to handle raw files...that's why you sill need a desktop/laptop. You can import JPEGs from the iPad though.
I process RAWs on a near daily basis on my iPad Air via PhotoRAW and PiRAWnha. This includes Sony A7r files. PiRAWnha can be cranky memory-wise but PhotoRAW uses virtual mem and runs just fine. Speedier in fact than c. 2006 Lr ran on my then desktop machine. A standalone Lr Mobile could be done...if Adobe were interested in doing it.
-Dave-
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Well, goodie for you...personally, I use a laptop cause, well, I shoot too much to even consider loading stuff on an iPad. (and no, I prolly won't be using LRm for much of anything other than running slide shows).
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Couldn't find a mechanism to rate (assign stars) in LRm. Or label with colour. Let me know if i missed something.
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Couldn't find a mechanism to rate (assign stars) in LRm. Or label with colour. Let me know if i missed something.
Nope...only Flag at this point. Rank and Label due in the future...this is really a 1.0 effort so a lot of stuff ain't there yet...
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Available as of today.
Maybe worth noting, only for iPad ...
How about an App for Android (the largest marketshare (http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/28/android-tablets-reportedly-overtake-apples-ipad-marketshare-approach-in-revenue-earned) since last year, and growing) ?
Cheers,
Bart
P.S. Is it true that it only functions with a subscription and not with a fully paid perpetual LR 5.4 ?
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I am curious to what happens behind the scenes.
*Does Lightroom create a smart preview (partially developed, compressed file) that Lightroom Mobile then process on the fly for rendering?
iPad resolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_(3rd_generation)
2048 by 1536
Smart previews: http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2013/04/editing-off-line-files-in-the-lightroom-5-beta-using-smart-previews.html
2540 pixels on the long edge
*Does Lightroom Mobile read/write the regular .lrcat catalog file, or a local copy/light version? Regardless, how are the files maintained and synced? Is it possible to keep the lrcat on a storage resource (such as a NAS), accessing it both from Lightroom and Lightroom mobile?
*If you edit the raw files in regular Lightroom, then open the catalog in Lightroom Mobile, will you get to see things that could not have been seen if you opened the file directly in Lightroom Mobile (in other words, does LM show the essence of what was done in L development?)
Bart:
Yes, it seems that this is a thing only for subscribers and iPad users. I am none of those.
Nope...only Flag at this point. Rank and Label due in the future...this is really a 1.0 effort so a lot of stuff ain't there yet...
Bummer. I use the star rating actively, and being able to tag those things in the couch (or on the bus) could be a nice feature.
edit:
Reading the blog post, it seems that (part of) your lrcat is uploaded to the cloud, along with (reduced size) smart previews, so that the edits and image data can be accessed wherever you have an internet connection. Presumably, the local lrcat on your computer will be updated whenever you start Lightroom.
-h
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Nope...only Flag at this point. Rank and Label due in the future...this is really a 1.0 effort so a lot of stuff ain't there yet...
Yep, that it is the impression that I got after playing a few minutes with it this morning. They focused in some small set of features and they will improve it later on...
After thinking a bit how this application could be useful to me, not really looking forward to do any serious development in an iPad screen with their limiter set of colours, in particular the Mini one. But labeling (syncing labels between your lightroom catalog in your PC to the iPad), staring, putting colors labels, and keeping a catalog to show from an iPad looks interesting.
Now, if they also add the possibility of syncing and smart collection...
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I am curious to what happens behind the scenes.
*Does Lightroom create a smart preview (partially developed, compressed file) that Lightroom Mobile then process on the fly for rendering?
iPad resolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_(3rd_generation)
2048 by 1536
Smart previews: http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2013/04/editing-off-line-files-in-the-lightroom-5-beta-using-smart-previews.html
2540 pixels on the long edge
*Does Lightroom Mobile read/write the regular .lrcat catalog file, or a local copy/light version? Regardless, how are the files maintained and synced? Is it possible to keep the lrcat on a storage resource (such as a NAS), accessing it both from Lightroom and Lightroom mobile?
*If you edit the raw files in regular Lightroom, then open the catalog in Lightroom Mobile, will you get to see things that could not have been seen if you opened the file directly in Lightroom Mobile (in other words, does LM show the essence of what was done in L development?)
Bart:
Yes, it seems that this is a thing only for subscribers and iPad users. I am none of those.Bummer. I use the star rating actively, and being able to tag those things in the couch (or on the bus) could be a nice feature.
edit:
Reading the blog post, it seems that (part of) your lrcat is uploaded to the cloud, along with (reduced size) smart previews, so that the edits and image data can be accessed wherever you have an internet connection. Presumably, the local lrcat on your computer will be updated whenever you start Lightroom.
-h
The blog post https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/lightroom-mobile-now-available.html says that smart previews are uploaded for all pictures in the collections you have checked for Lightroom mobile synch. How they are organized does not really matter. When you update on the iPad the changes are synched back to Lightroom and you can see in the history for changed pictures that they are marked as "From Lr mobile". So no history details on the edits done in the iPad LR app.
Only basic non-smart collections and not a collection set can be synched. I synched a collection of 116 pictures and on the iPad this took up 93.9MB of storage (se under general, usage, show all apps and find the Lightroom app). The synch was a bit slow.
It's a nice first version of the iPad app and as one could expect the editing features are very basic, but it's a bit odd that the rating features are not more complete as I would expect that this would be one use of this app.
It does not replace apps for viewing pictures, I think. I use the PhotoMgrPro app for viewing and it works with a Lightroom plugin which also does the synching over FTP to the iPad. The synching of pictures is much faster than the LR synch between the LR desktop and LR iPad. partly, of course, since the cloud is used to stage the synch. I use dimensions 3072x3072 for the image dimensions for the LR plugin jf Collection Publisher.
If the iPad Lightroom version would support collection sets so that groups of collections could be synched and shown as groups on the iPad one could have a nice and easy way of showing groups of pictures. E.g. one could have a collection set called Landscapes and inside collections for different locations like the following and the advantage would be that Lightroom once it is setup will automatically synch any updates that will be picked up on the iPad when LR is used on the iPad.
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It does not replace apps for viewing pictures, I think. I use the PhotoMgrPro app for viewing and it works with a Lightroom plugin which also does the synching over FTP to the iPad. The synching of pictures is much faster than the LR synch between the LR desktop and LR iPad. partly, of course, since the cloud is used to stage the synch. I use dimensions 3072x3072 for the image dimensions for the LR plugin jf Collection Publisher.
I disagree with you there. It's so much easier than setting up any third party app. I've 3 or 4 of these, all with clever ways of synchronising from Dropbox or whatever, and lots of options. Sure, you can get them working, even find ways to publish incrementally. And maybe you'll remember how you did it. But they all involve a lot more setup than LrM - click the badge next to the collection and you're done.
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I disagree with you there. It's so much easier than setting up any third party app. I've 3 or 4 of these, all with clever ways of synchronising from Dropbox or whatever, and lots of options. Sure, you can get them working, even find ways to publish incrementally. And maybe you'll remember how you did it. But they all involve a lot more setup than LrM - click the badge next to the collection and you're done.
Actually this was what I wrote in the last section that if LR was enhanced to do synching the way I described then could be a nice way. It could be done on a collection by collection basis now by I don't like the long linear list of folders. That's also one of the reasons why I don't use the builtin image app on the iPad. The one I mentioned that I use has the speed advantage that it synchs directly over your WiFi and do not upload to a website and therefore much faster. If the synch between the desktop LR and the iPad could be done locally over WiFi it could be equally fast.
I agree that the synching using these 3rd party apps can be less than intuitive for the non IT inclined person.
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I agree that the synching using these 3rd party apps can be less than intuitive for the non IT inclined person.
I guess I count as IT-inclined, Hans, and yet I loathe all these ways of getting pictures to the iPad - if not quite as much as I despise sync methods that involve iTunes.
As for the point about wifi, I agree about the desirability but it wouldn't provide an incentive to sign up for the CC and it would also expose a critical function of the app to user fiddling.
John
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I'm still not sure what happens after 30 days.....? I have LR 5.4, but will I need Adobe cloud subscription. If so, No Go.
Besides, as mentioned above, for all intents, it doesn't do metadata, except picks. You would think that would have been the easiest feature to include with v1.
I'll stay with Photosmith!
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I guess I count as IT-inclined, Hans, and yet I loathe all these ways of getting pictures to the iPad - if not quite as much as I despise sync methods that involve iTunes.
As for the point about wifi, I agree about the desirability but it wouldn't provide an incentive to sign up for the CC and it would also expose a critical function of the app to user fiddling.
John
Ok, I didn't mean to say you were not IT-inclined ;D I do agree that several of these 3rd apps including the Lightroom setup is less than elegant.
Since I subscribe to CC i have no problem with that requirement.
Anyway I will try the synching with LRM as it is and see if I like it after some time. The fact that it is automatic counts very high on my list. The speed argument counts less if it is folders than are only changed for a few pictures now and then. I do like that it is possible to see EXIF data and sort pictures various ways which was the main reason I went for PhotoMgrPro. The nesting of folders I hope will come in a future release.
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I guess I count as IT-inclined, Hans, and yet I loathe all these ways of getting pictures to the iPad - if not quite as much as I despise sync methods that involve iTunes.
John
John- do u "know" if with LR 5.4, Adobe now allows 3rd party apps to use the same method to sync with desktop LR as LrM?
Dave B
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John- do u "know" if with LR 5.4, Adobe now allows 3rd party apps to use the same method to sync with desktop LR as LrM?
Dave B
Not the same method, Dave, this is new and separate. 3rd party apps can already sync with LR via the existing plug-in method - so as a Published Service or via http calls as I show in this post Is there an easier way to get text data into Lightroom? (http://lightroomsolutions.com/is-there-an-easier-way-to-get-text-data-into-lightroom/).
John
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LRm does having syncing to to/from the desktop via cloud services...
Ton's of fun doing that with say 100 5DMII raws, even more fun with the big-ass raws you capture.
Then, after sitting on the couch to 'edit' those images, you get to do it all over again, to get the edits back to the desktop? Does that sound like an efficient workflow?
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Ton's of fun doing that with say 100 5DMII raws, even more fun with the big-ass raws you capture.
Then, after sitting on the couch to 'edit' those images, you get to do it all over again, to get the edits back to the desktop? Does that sound like an efficient workflow?
It's a good idea to understand how it works before you comment.... The edits done on the iPad goes back automatically and gets applied to the RAW or TIFF/PSD/JPG file it came from in the desktop LR catalog.
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Andrew does have a pretty good idea, Hans. It doesn't mean he's right though.
Sync speed can be an issue (if your web connection is patchy), so it's not for deadline-driven tasks. And it's not colour managed, so your adjustments aren't final or fine level. But to paraphrase Andrew, you've done a few rough adjustments sitting on the couch or down the pub, had a moment to think through what you want the images to look like, and then you just need to fine tune them on the desktop. Is the time on the couch or down the pub efficient? Maybe not. But are you more productive overall, and did you enjoy the beer?
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The edits done on the iPad goes back automatically and gets applied to the RAW or TIFF/PSD/JPG file it came from in the desktop LR catalog.
That's both obvious and a condition I'm aware of. You've failed to understand my beef in the workflow. Wrong tool for the wrong job, a lot of time spent needlessly syncing anything. What next, edit raws on my iPhone? Let's build tools not for the best equipment available, instead some of the worst but do so because there are so many of them out there. No thanks, I'll stick with the proper tools for the job.
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That's both obvious and a condition I'm aware of. You've failed to understand my beef in the workflow. Wrong tool for the wrong job, a lot of time spent needlessly syncing anything. What next, edit raws on my iPhone? Let's build tools not for the best equipment available, instead some of the worst but do so because there are so many of them out there. No thanks, I'll stick with the proper tools for the job.
What is obvious and what you are aware of may not be obvious from what you actually wrote. I didn't see any beef to speak of ;)
The wrong tool for the job for you maybe the right tool for somebody else. Some find e.g. laptops fine for editing, others would say it's waste of time. Right tool for the job depends on the person selecting the tool. It's not a universal right or wrong.
I find the first version quite nice as a presentation tool. The editing features are for me way too limited to be useful, somebody else might find them very useful.
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The wrong tool for the job for you maybe the right tool for somebody else.
Some would rather use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver than a screwdriver. Let them go at it.
The idea behind the workflow you haven't commented on, namely, taking a huge amount of data (raws), doing a double sync so you can decide what? Which to delete, which to keyword? Edit on a display that has no basis in reality? IF you charge by the hour, this is a superb new tool and workflow you should absolutely use! Otherwise, the entire idea in just moving this data around is silly. At least for anyone who's thinking of working with more than a handful of files.
I find the first version quite nice as a presentation tool.
And so is the LR web module on a device that can actually show you the images correctly from a stinkin web browser.
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Those complaining about iOS only should read this article:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2014/04/04/apple_vs_android_developers_see_a_socioeconomic_divide.html
I'm not saying YOU are cheap or poor, but overall the demographics point to android users by and large are not going to be subscribing to CC. It doesn't mean that won't change but as of now it nearly always makes sense to release for iOS first.
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Some would rather use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver than a screwdriver. Let them go at it.
The idea behind the workflow you haven't commented on, namely, taking a huge amount of data (raws), doing a double sync so you can decide what? Which to delete, which to keyword? Edit on a display that has no basis in reality? IF you charge by the hour, this is a superb new tool and workflow you should absolutely use! Otherwise, the entire idea in just moving this data around is silly. At least for anyone who's thinking of working with more than a handful of files. And so is the LR web module on a device that can actually show you the images correctly from a stinkin web browser.
The RAWs are not synched at all. It's smart previews and not RAWs that are synched. I find presentation on the iPad very useful and it shows pictures very nicely even though it is not color managed and just sRGB. Does it really matter that much? My MBP retina display is also only sRGB although mine in calibrated, but my big (close to) Adobe RGB display looks much nicer, but it's too big to put in my bag for showing my pictures.
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In order to test if LR mobile is good for presentation of pictures and there is no hierarchy possible, I made the following setup in my collections. This means that the folders can be sorted on the folder name so that they come in a desired order. I then set the app in presentation mode so no edits are possible.
Maybe an obvious to do it....
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The RAWs are not synched at all.
You're missing the point and the workflow. Raws DO have to be saved from card to some drive (desktop, laptop etc). That's step 1. I'd do that anyway and move on with the right tool.
With LrM now we must use Smart Previews.
We must now sync SP's to iPad.
We must then sync back. All the while, using a toy of a tool that is quite limited!
Instead I save raws to HD. Maybe I build SP's, maybe I don't (I personally don't).
I work on those images on a faster, color managed tool with all the functionality I need.
There's nothing to sync anywhere. Of course I do back up! That's another part of the workflow.
The solution is at best half baked. And the tool you have to use is half baked. Go ahead, use it, it's probably great for JPEG's much like Apple/iPHone/iTunes (add Drop Box and any number of other bits and pieces). For those working in raw? With more than a dozen raw originals? Seems like a huge waste of time to me. And at what cost of engineering resources at Adobe?
IF LR 6 comes out and blows us away, the last point will be moot. I'd hope they can build this iPad 'tool' and a killer upgrade to LR but if not, I'm going to be worried the energies were misspent on LrM. Time will tell. For now, with a very good internet connection (56Mbps down, 11.63 up.), there's nothing I see that I find time effective let alone tool effective. But by all means run it if you find it useful.
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With LrM now we must use Smart Previews.
We must now sync SP's to iPad.
We must then sync back.
Only the changed settings need to be synced back home, a few bytes of XMP formatted text.
Cheers,
Bart
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Only the changed settings need to be synced back home, a few bytes of XMP formatted text.
The outline I refer to is AFAIK correct.
With LrM now we must use Smart Previews.
We must now sync SP's to iPad.
We must then sync back.All the while, using a toy of a tool that is quite limited!
OK, so lets dismiss the first sync of SP's? While we're at it, let's dismiss the lack of functionality of the tool we've sent the initial data to? Let's dismiss the inclusion of dozens or more raws within this new workflow?
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You're missing the point and the workflow. Raws DO have to be saved from card to some drive (desktop, laptop etc). That's step 1. I'd do that anyway and move on with the right tool.
With LrM now we must use Smart Previews.
We must now sync SP's to iPad.
We must then sync back. All the while, using a toy of a tool that is quite limited!
Instead I save raws to HD. Maybe I build SP's, maybe I don't (I personally don't).
I work on those images on a faster, color managed tool with all the functionality I need.
There's nothing to sync anywhere. Of course I do back up! That's another part of the workflow.
The solution is at best half baked. And the tool you have to use is half baked. Go ahead, use it, it's probably great for JPEG's much like Apple/iPHone/iTunes (add Drop Box and any number of other bits and pieces). For those working in raw? With more than a dozen raw originals? Seems like a huge waste of time to me. And at what cost of engineering resources at Adobe?
IF LR 6 comes out and blows us away, the last point will be moot. I'd hope they can build this iPad 'tool' and a killer upgrade to LR but if not, I'm going to be worried the energies were misspent on LrM. Time will tell. For now, with a very good internet connection (56Mbps down, 11.63 up.), there's nothing I see that I find time effective let alone tool effective. But by all means run it if you find it useful.
Of course the RAWs have to be on the desktop and imported into the LR catalog as the product is working today. You don't need to build SP's and you don't need to resynch back. All this is done automatically when you have chosen to synch a collection. Again you may say this is obvious ;)
As I said before, some will like it and some will not. For me it does look nice and elegant for picture viewing on my iPad. For editing for me it is way to limited in features to even be considered in the current version as only global edits are possible.
I don't consider it a tool for synching an entire shoot as there in most cases would be way too many pictures, but for photographers either just wanting to have an easy and elegant way of presenting their pictures or work with a client on selecting the best images from an already made selection and maybe do a little global edits to take it more in the direction of what the client would like this makes perfect sense to me.
It seems that you are assuming that the engineering resources are taken away from possible features in LR6. I doubt this is the case. I'm awaiting with great anticipation what comes in following releases.
As mentioned it will not fit all but I think Adobe is moving in the right direction here. The fact that an iPad only shows sRGB and is cannot be calibrated properly does not mean that iPads in the future can't. Bigger iPad's could also come and it might actually be a very nice way of editing pictures.
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As I said before, some will like it and some will not.
I don't like it, I told you why. I also told you that if you like it, great, use it. Makes zero sense to me but then there are all kinds of workflows out there. This entire exercise reminds me of a quote from the late, great Bruce Fraser. I wish he were around to comment on this.
You can do all sorts of things that are fiendishly clever, then fall in love with them because they're fiendishly clever, while overlooking the fact that they take a great deal more work to obtain results that stupid people get in half the time. As someone who has created a lot of fiendishly clever but ultimately useless techniques in his day, I'd say this sounds like an example."
I find LrM fits that well. But Bruce also wrote (and it applies to those who like it): If you're happy with what you have, be happy that you're happy with what you have!
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The fact that an iPad only shows sRGB...
That isn't a fact.
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I don't like it, I told you why. I also told you that if you like it, great, use it. Makes zero sense to me but then there are all kinds of workflows out there. This entire exercise reminds me of a quote from the late, great Bruce Fraser. I wish he were around to comment on this.
I find LrM fits that well. But Bruce also wrote (and it applies to those who like it): If you're happy with what you have, be happy that you're happy with what you have!
Fine with me.
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How do I load mobile LR on my iPad 4? I have 5.4 purchased version running on my desktop running with Windows 8.1.
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How do I load mobile LR on my iPad 4? I have 5.4 purchased version running on my desktop running with Windows 8.1.
Hi Alan,
It looks like they require you to have a CC subscription version of LR 5.4 before they unlock the feature.
If that's true, it's a plot to boost the number of subscriptons, and a slap in the face of those who paid for LR5 up front.
Cheers,
Bart
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Hi All
No Subscription for Light room.
CC Subscription for the App.
Double Standards Adobe.
You can dupe someone once but twice????
regards
Jon
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It looks like they require you to have a CC subscription version of LR 5.4 before they unlock the feature.
If that's true, it's a plot to boost the number of subscriptons, and a slap in the face of those who paid for LR5 up front.
A CC subscription IS required to do the synchronization which works via Creative Cloud servers. There is no direct synch between LR on the desktop and the iPad over a local WiFi network.
I do not agree that it is a slap in the face for those who bought LR5 as I do not think Adobe ever promised that all functionality of LR5 would be available to all.
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Well, goodie for you...personally, I use a laptop cause, well, I shoot too much to even consider loading stuff on an iPad. (and no, I prolly won't be using LRm for much of anything other than running slide shows).
Jeff, it's got nothing to do with me. Geez... The point is that newer iPads have the capability to edit full-size RAWs, and Adobe has chosen not to make use of it. No doubt a product-placement-driven strategy on their part, but IMO also a shortsighted one. Rather than just serving the existing Lr user base they could've begun to cultivate a new one. But, hey, I can (and do) use other products instead to accomplish what I want.
I now use my desktop machine for just two things: long-term data storage and print-oriented image processing. All other computing tasks are handled fine by my iPad. This includes multitrack audio recording with a full suite of recording/editing tools. It also includes all electronic-display-oriented image processing. My aim is to replace the desktop completely with a NAS/printer server, with all content creation/editing tasks handled by an iPad or other tablet device. IMO this is the way things are going. And I like it.
-Dave-
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A CC subscription IS required to do the synchronization which works via Creative Cloud servers. There is no direct synch between LR on the desktop and the iPad over a local WiFi network.....
Uh, don't think that's actually true. Have v5.4 on MacMini and LRM on iPad. Currently, modifications on iPad sync almost immediately to desktop when made on iPad with both on wireless network. Now that might change when the 30 day trial period ends.....
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So what's a good free app for iPad 4 that I can use on vacation for backing up my photos into and emailing and minor editing?
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Tablets suck for serious work (photo work included in that)
I use my desktop for doing real things, my tablet for checking the web and casual stuff
I also touch type, tablets are not great for that either.
They are good for selected things (they are small, portable for one)
They are not an all in one wonder that does everything great
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Uh, don't think that's actually true. Have v5.4 on MacMini and LRM on iPad. Currently, modifications on iPad sync almost immediately to desktop when made on iPad with both on wireless network. Now that might change when the 30 day trial period ends.....
Read here http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/lightroom-mobile-now-available.html
where you will see:
How to get started:
Download Lightroom 5.4
Lightroom mobile is a companion to Lightroom desktop. Lightroom 5.4 is the first version of Lightroom desktop that includes the ability to sync images to Lightroom mobile. Please update to the latest version of Lightroom 5 using either the Creative Cloud app or by clicking on the “Help-> Check for Updates” menu option.
Sign In
Lightroom mobile utilizes cloud services to sync Smart Previews and changes between Lightroom desktop and Lightroom mobile. Lightroom mobile requires a qualifying Creative Cloud or Photoshop Photography Plan subscription:
Photoshop Photography Program
Creative Cloud complete plan
Creative Cloud Student and Teacher Edition
Creative Cloud for teams complete plan
A free 30-day trial of Lightroom mobile is available
Have fun ;D
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A free 30-day trial of Lightroom mobile is available[/i]
Hi Hans,
So it is a 30-day trial version? What happens after 30 days?
Cheers,
Bart
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Hi Hans,
So it is a 30-day trial version? What happens after 30 days?
Cheers,
Bart
As it says:
Lightroom mobile requires a qualifying Creative Cloud or Photoshop Photography Plan subscription:
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Lightroom mobile requires a qualifying Creative Cloud or Photoshop Photography Plan subscription:
Which is why I've started looking into Aperture. Yes it is a few years old now, but, guess what - it synchs with iPad seamlessly and has a few other bells and whistles worth investigating...
- https://www.apertureexpert.com/tips/2013/8/2/guest-post-why-i-use-aperture-instead-of-lightroom.html#.U0SZm16V3Rc
- http://photo.rwboyer.com/2013/08/04/2013-aperture-3-still-my-go-to-tool/
I, for one, am not keen on being sucked into the Adobesphere where I will need to pay money each month/year in perpetuity to edit my photos. I realize LR is still standalone, but not if you want it for iPad. And for how much longer will LR remain standalone when all other Adobe products have gone to CC?
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Uh, don't think that's actually true. Have v5.4 on MacMini and LRM on iPad. Currently, modifications on iPad sync almost immediately to desktop when made on iPad with both on wireless network. Now that might change when the 30 day trial period ends.....
Actually, it is true. Sync is via the Adobe Cloud, not LRm to LR. Disconnect your network from the Internet and it will stop working.
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So what's a good free app for iPad 4 that I can use on vacation for backing up my photos into and emailing and minor editing?
Bump. Any suggestions?
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Tablets suck for serious work (photo work included in that)
I use my desktop for doing real things, my tablet for checking the web and casual stuff
I also touch type, tablets are not great for that either.
They are good for selected things (they are small, portable for one)
They are not an all in one wonder that does everything great
Your opinion & experience maybe but most certainly not mine. Except for the last sentence...nothing is "an all in one wonder that does everything great."
-Dave-
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So what's a good free app for iPad 4 that I can use on vacation for backing up my photos into and emailing and minor editing?
Photogene isn't free but it doesn't cost much either. It's Lightroom-ish in that it maintains a database of your photo edits (leaving the original image data intact) but it doesn't build a catalog of imported photos. You can use the Photos app to create folders for import that Photogene can access.
-Dave-
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How is Lr mobile useful for editing when it does not appear to be color managed? Last weekend I downloaded X-rite's color managed ipad gallery app and noticed a pretty large difference between the 'color managed' and 'non-color managed' version of photos. There was a slight difference in color but what really surprised me was how much the shadows were opened up in the 'color managed' version. It did make things more like my NEC PA241W. If I were to edit photos with LR Mobile I would be fooled into thinking my shadows were more plugged up than they actually are.
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Jeff, it's got nothing to do with me. Geez... The point is that newer iPads have the capability to edit full-size RAWs, and Adobe has chosen not to make use of it. No doubt a product-placement-driven strategy on their part, but IMO also a shortsighted one.
I am convinced that Adobe could have made Lightroom Mobile read full raws. They might even add that capability down the line. But it would have been a very different product. Pushing 1MB, 2000x2500 semi-developed files through the cloud, through variable internet connections, into a limited flash storage and a limited mobile cpu has some clear advantages compared to doing 20MB or 40MB raw files at 20MP or 36MP. It lets the user do the cloud thing (backup, availability anywhere, sharing, whatnot). It lets Adobe make a mobile product that have to read one file format instead of umpteen reverse-engineered ones (a handful new added for each release). It may make it possible to do whitebalance collectively on 30 files at once and render the result without having to run for a charger.
I now use my desktop machine for just two things: long-term data storage and print-oriented image processing. All other computing tasks are handled fine by my iPad. This includes multitrack audio recording with a full suite of recording/editing tools. It also includes all electronic-display-oriented image processing. My aim is to replace the desktop completely with a NAS/printer server, with all content creation/editing tasks handled by an iPad or other tablet device. IMO this is the way things are going. And I like it.
I also have a NAS as my local "cloud" (I even get to own my data). I am in no hurry to replace my stationary desktop with an iPad (I would probably go for a laptop before going for an iPad as my main computing device).
While there are many inexpensive apps for mobile devices, it seems that the overall software quality/QA as well as flexibility is incredibly low. At least for Android, iOS might be somewhat better.
-h
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I am convinced that Adobe could have made Lightroom Mobile read full raws.
Lightroom and ACR support raw files from over 300 cameras...from my Phase One IQ 180 (80MP) down to my Sony RX100 II to my lowly Digital Rebel. So, you really wanna try to process 80MP raw files on an iPad? So, if Adobe released LrM 1.0 to support a subset of the raw files supported in LR 5.4, how do you think Adobe should have triaged raw file formats? Support only the smaller raw files? Only support the most recent raw files?
So, you are convinced Adobe COULD have done this, but pretend you are the LrM product manager...would you support 80MP raws as well as 22MP raws and 16MP raws?
Do you have any idea what the performance would be like trying to adjust an 80MP IQ 180 capture would be like? Do you really think Adobe is stupid? They did what they could do with what they have in the time frame they had to do it. LrM is an "add on" app for subscribers of the Photoshop + Lightroom CC subscribers (or an inducement to join the CC).
Personally, it's no skin off my nose either way...I tested LrM and made my opinion known during testing...LrM is, what it is. Some people may find it useful. At some point in the future when more features are added, others many find it more useful. At this point the only use I'll put LrM to is to see what it's like and then wait till I find it useful for my workflow. Now? Not so much...in the future? I'll see. But as a subscriber, it costs me nothing other than the time it takes to download and install. Again, no skin off my nose.
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So what's a good free app for iPad 4 that I can use on vacation for backing up my photos into and emailing and minor editing?
Get a friggin' laptop...
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Does anyone know if Lightroom Mobile is ColorTrue aware or if there are plans for it to be?
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Does anyone know if Lightroom Mobile is ColorTrue aware or if there are plans for it to be?
How is Lr mobile useful for editing when it does not appear to be color managed?
It's not colour managed - the iPad isn't. So Mobile just isn't designed for the finest quality part of the workflow. Instead it's more the equivalent of Quick Develop - broad adjustments when you're down the pub or waiting for a train or just sitting with the family watching the TV. Later, once you're in front of your fancy colour-managed monitor, those adjustments are already synchronised into your catalogue and you've freed up time for fine tuning.
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1. Lightroom and ACR support raw files from over 300 cameras...from my Phase One IQ 180 (80MP) down to my Sony RX100 II to my lowly Digital Rebel. So, you really wanna try to process 80MP raw files on an iPad?
2. So, if Adobe released LrM 1.0 to support a subset of the raw files supported in LR 5.4, how do you think Adobe should have triaged raw file formats? Support only the smaller raw files? Only support the most recent raw files?
3. So, you are convinced Adobe COULD have done this, but pretend you are the LrM product manager...would you support 80MP raws as well as 22MP raws and 16MP raws?
4. Do you have any idea what the performance would be like trying to adjust an 80MP IQ 180 capture would be like?
I do think that I touched all of those questions in my original post (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=88810.msg724541#msg724541) (of which you quoted only the first sentence). Actually, I am a bit surprised that you ask what I think about these things. Did you not care to read the post through before hitting reply, and if not, would you read more carefully if I restated my view as a response to your questions?
Do you really think Adobe is stupid?
Like many large corporations, I imagine that they have a lot of clever people on payroll, and that as an organization they are capable of really bright stuff and really stupid stuff. Not unheard of for both to happen within the same time-frame and the same group.
-h
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I am convinced that Adobe could have made Lightroom Mobile read full raws. They might even add that capability down the line. But it would have been a very different product. Pushing 1MB, 2000x2500 semi-developed files through the cloud, through variable internet connections, into a limited flash storage and a limited mobile cpu has some clear advantages compared to doing 20MB or 40MB raw files at 20MP or 36MP. It lets the user do the cloud thing (backup, availability anywhere, sharing, whatnot). It lets Adobe make a mobile product that have to read one file format instead of umpteen reverse-engineered ones (a handful new added for each release). It may make it possible to do whitebalance collectively on 30 files at once and render the result without having to run for a charger.I also have a NAS as my local "cloud" (I even get to own my data). I am in no hurry to replace my stationary desktop with an iPad (I would probably go for a laptop before going for an iPad as my main computing device).
While there are many inexpensive apps for mobile devices, it seems that the overall software quality/QA as well as flexibility is incredibly low. At least for Android, iOS might be somewhat better.
-h
Yes, as Schewe mentions, Adobe could have done this, but it is not the right time to do this given the current hardware and size of RAW files. It's release 1.0 and maybe also a putting the toe on the water to test it and the reactions form customers and the marketplace. What I see is that this product on the iPad can become a full fledged editing tool over time and full RAW support can be added when it makes sense to do so. I'm convinced that the Adobe engineers have done the internals of the product such that this can be done and that all the editing and presentation tools will work based on a rendered RAW images as well.
We might well see future iPad's that can be color managed and also with larger screens and more powerful processors to facilitate the needs of photographers (and others). You may still need to go back to your laptop with an external screen to fine tune the images like to also have to do if you edit on a laptop on the road.
I have now set LRM up to be a presentation tool for my pictures in parallel with PhotoMgrPro and it works well for that. Any edits in my main Lightroom catalog will be reflected when I open the iPad and automatically. Any images I add to any of the collections will be synched automatically and also any images taken out of the collections will be removed automatically. I big step up from the other tools where I need to go and publish whenever there is a change and in all publish folders where there is a change plus I need to synch explicitly. Wrt. color management, I find that there are differences to my calibrated 30" HP screen but the differences are small enough and the shadows are not blocky as long as the brightness of the iPad screen is set adequately. I have used the iPad for presentation for quite some time and it has been working very well for that and had no negative comments on the presentation.
So for now this is my use of LRM, but if local edits are added I may even do some editing on the iPad as well, but I prefer to work directly on my MBP with or without the external screen. I always bring it on my travels anyway and could not see an iPad replace it anytime soon. What I do is to take my best shots and synch with the iPad for showing and now I can do this on the road even with a normal hotel WiFi network and internet speed. Sitting at a dinner table showing pictures on an iPad is so much more convenient than using a MacBook!
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Lightroom and ACR support raw files from over 300 cameras...from my Phase One IQ 180 (80MP) down to my Sony RX100 II to my lowly Digital Rebel. So, you really wanna try to process 80MP raw files on an iPad? So, if Adobe released LrM 1.0 to support a subset of the raw files supported in LR 5.4, how do you think Adobe should have triaged raw file formats? Support only the smaller raw files? Only support the most recent raw files?
So, you are convinced Adobe COULD have done this, but pretend you are the LrM product manager...would you support 80MP raws as well as 22MP raws and 16MP raws?
Do you have any idea what the performance would be like trying to adjust an 80MP IQ 180 capture would be like? Do you really think Adobe is stupid? They did what they could do with what they have in the time frame they had to do it. LrM is an "add on" app for subscribers of the Photoshop + Lightroom CC subscribers (or an inducement to join the CC).
Personally, it's no skin off my nose either way...I tested LrM and made my opinion known during testing...LrM is, what it is. Some people may find it useful. At some point in the future when more features are added, others many find it more useful. At this point the only use I'll put LrM to is to see what it's like and then wait till I find it useful for my workflow. Now? Not so much...in the future? I'll see. But as a subscriber, it costs me nothing other than the time it takes to download and install. Again, no skin off my nose.
For those interested in finding out how well (or not) iPads deal with full raw files, just download PhotoRaw Lite (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/photoraw-lite/id423201178?mt=8), which is free, and try for yourself. The Lite version of PhotoRaw is restricted to a single camera model, etc, but is exactly there so you can find out whether or not raw development on an iDevice would be a useful part of your workflow or not.
Sandy
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Your opinion & experience maybe but most certainly not mine. Except for the last sentence...nothing is "an all in one wonder that does everything great."
-Dave-
So you do a lot of raw processing on your tablet?
It's simple really one core of my desktop pc would spank the life out of a tablet processor..and I have many more cores
It's not really going to cut the mustard for raw workflow on a tablet (even a good one with a nice screen)
Right tool for the job, tablets are handy but lack firepower for intensive tasks (even v a decent laptop, let alone a good desktop)
Same reason I use a socket set to take bolts off, and not pliers ;D
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Same reason I use a socket set to take bolts off, and not pliers ;D
But when I'm out on my bike, and need to fix something, I use a pocket multi-tool and not my socket set. Likewise, I've had some fun on planes and in hotel rooms editing images with Snapseed on my iPad.
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Does anyone know if Lightroom Mobile is ColorTrue aware or if there are plans for it to be?
It isn't but could be once X-rite gets the SDK to them. But it's a bit pointless, ColorTrue doesn't really work. Yes, it's better than no calibration. But the tools provided are so crude and simplistic, only three white point options, the product doesn't match my display which IS calibrated to match my prints. So while better than nothing, it's still wrong and doing color corrections on the iPad with it would produce a preview that is either too warm or too cool. Kind of pointless along with all the other limitations of LrM and ColorTrue.
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Later, once you're in front of your fancy colour-managed monitor, those adjustments are already synchronised into your catalogue and you've freed up time for fine tuning.
Exactly. Do the work twice and hopefully charge for the work twice ;D
Otherwise, seems rather pointless unless adjusting photo's in a pub (or here a Starbucks) using their wifi is the new cool thing to do.
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No, you've made good use of some down time and make better use of work time. Andrew, you're so relentlessly and unreasonably negative about this that you wouldn'tsee any benefits of this even if they slapped you in the face.
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No, you've made good use of some down time and make better use of work time.
Actually I see it as a waste of good down time, only to repeat the correct edits later at work time but that's just me.
Andrew, you're so relentlessly and unreasonably negative about this that you wouldn'tsee any benefits of this even if they slapped you in the face.
I see nothing unreasonable about using a poor tool and workflow but again that's just me. If you feel doing something twice instead of once is effective, by all means do so. I guess some folks enjoy the slapping, I'll pass. Otherwise the comment doesn't deserve any further reply.
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Sometimes you've just got to let the dog chew away on his bone....
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Actually I see it as a waste of good down time, only to repeat the correct edits later at work time but that's just me. I see nothing unreasonable about using a poor tool and workflow but again that's just me. If you feel doing something twice instead of once is effective, by all means do so. I guess some folks enjoy the slapping, I'll pass. Otherwise the comment doesn't deserve any further reply.
What really matters is not what you feel about the product, but what users in general are looking for. If e.g. 50% of the Adobe Lightroom CC customers thinks it is a great tool for them, then it's definitely a roaring success given a release 1.0 product. Adobe here lays the foundation for a product that in a couple of years can and most likely will look very different. Just think of the different releases that Lightroom itself went through.
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If e.g. 50% of the Adobe Lightroom CC customers things it is a great tool for them, then it's definitely a roaring success given a release 1.0 product.
Agreed so let's just see how the market reacts. And how they (or you) come up with that 50% figure. Looking over the UtoU forum after one day, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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So you do a lot of raw processing on your tablet?
It's simple really one core of my desktop pc would spank the life out of a tablet processor..and I have many more cores
Hmmm, I'd say you're judging something you haven't actually tried. PhotoRAW on my iPad Air does its work as fast, perceptively, as Lr does on my desktop. It's of course a much simpler piece of software...but it's also running atop a much more streamlined OS. iOS is not a cut-down version of OS X. It's a different thing.
You can & should work the way you want to. Or need to. But you better believe I will too. I've found Photoshop, Lr, C1, Aperture, Iridient, etc. are unnecessary for anything other than processing-for-printing. Same goes for having a calibrated display. It matters for prints, not so much for presentation on non-calibrated screens. I don't do much printing these days...
-Dave-
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I think you have called LRm just right. I cannot see any reason for this application. To use it you have to have already imported into your LR catalogue on your laptop and therefore what's the point? If you need photos to show someone you can just export jpg's and show anyone those.
As for editing photos down the pub - please "get a life". Just do the work once on your laptop, the right tool for the job. I keep saying laptop because if you saw the Adobe launch video at Photoshop world they had a guy holding a desktop under one arm; Adobe seem to be unaware of laptops, they will be shocked by a Mac Air :-)
LRm may be all about "business". It is possible that Adobe needed to get something out on the "mobile space" in order to show shareholders that they are playing in mobile, which is heralded as the future of computing. Mobile is the future of "consumption" computing and that is where the big growth is. Laptops are for productivity and that is what serious photography is about (instagram editing is great for iPhones) which is why so many on forums like this have reacted hostile to LRm.
It's a free world however and if people want to occupy their free time playing with photos on an iPad then that is up to them. I won't sully my iPad with LRm it's too busy with Candy Crush, actually I don't even do that, but the iPad is great for casual web browsing which is probably what they are used for most of the time.
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Ian, with respect, go screw yourself. Of course, I'll gladly withdraw that if you edit your post and remove the moronic comment to "get a life".
Happily resolved.
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Laptops are for productivity and that is what serious photography is about (instagram editing is great for iPhones) which is why so many on forums like this have reacted hostile to LRm.
New ways of doing things always provoke hostility. Ve$ted interest$ being threatened, dogmas being challenged. Whatever...the future happens regardless.
-Dave-
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I do a lot of catalogue work. Some shoots go on for months. Not every day but few days a week. Now I can have my catalogue of a shoot in progress with me when calling on a client. We can check was has been done and how. The client can make changes and requests while checking on my iPad.
That's just one application I can see for Lightroom mobile. You don't need much of an imagination to see many others.
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This discussions seems to have coalesced around two camps: whether or not tablets are useful for post-processing. It might be helpful to take a step back from that discussion, primarily because tablets are still in their infancy compared to the power of a laptop. If you go back a few years (maybe even a decade), the same arguments were being made against laptops. I'll bet there are still many desktop users who still question the use of a laptop for post-processing.
We are dealing with a change in technology. Early adopters see the benefits. Late adopters see the costs. We are clearly moving towards a tablet world. It makes clear sense for Adobe to be putting out an app like LRm even if it's not yet perfect and even if tablets are not yet perfect. If you wait for perfection you will die before it happens.
Is there anyone else out there who feels that the bigger issue is the way Adobe has done this: forcing LR standalone users to pay $99/year if they wish to use LRm. I know it's optional, you get cloud space as well as PS, and LR is (still) standalone (for now) if you don't want the service, but let's look at the big picture: is anyone concerned about the long-term issue of tying yourself to making rentals payments to a company to interact with (tag, edit, present) your images forever? Forever is a long time. What you're signing up for is a lifetime of payments. For how many more years do you expect to be actively involved in photography?
Or have the members of this forum just accepted this as the new reality and have moved on? I know it makes sense for professionals who can write off the expense, but what about those millions of photographers who dabble (or more – even have shows), but can't write off the expense. $100/year really adds up over time.
Of course, maybe my argument is moot. After all, in looking at my own future, I expect (hope) to be actively involved in photography for at least 25 more years. If things stay relatively the same (given inflation, I know they won't, but bear with me), that would be $100/year for 25 years - less than the cost of a professional camera body spread over 25 years. Heck, back in the film days, I would spend many times that on film for one extended shoot. AND, turning more of my photos into prints and books would allow them to be "perpetual" beyond the life of Adobe CC. Maybe my thinking out loud has just solved my dilemma. Thanks for listening!
(Edit: Auto-correct corrections made.)
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Hi John
If my light hearted "get a life" post caused offence, then please accept my sincere apologies.
I don't spend a lot of time browsing forums so that is why my reply is rather late, but better late than never. Again, apologies for any offence caused.
Ian
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Accepted, Ian - obviously I didn't feel it was so humorous.
Best regards.
John
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Is there anyone else out there who feels that the bigger issue is the way Adobe has done this: forcing LR standalone users to pay $99/year if they wish to use LRm.
That's a big part of it yes. For lots of big raws, it seems pointless in terms of the speed issues going back and forth. But let's look at JPEGs and maybe how this has been done from say an iPhone. That works reasonably well if one isn't working with lots of images. Case in point, I just took a dog road trip and shot about 100 raws in Sedona and about 10 JPEG's on the iPhone with two being video's lasting 2 minutes or so. I get back to WiFi at the hotel, the iPhone images are uploaded to Dropbox albeit it slowly. So slow that I can't imagine doing this with 100 raw's even with Smart Previews. From Dropbox I import into my LR Library (move). I could do the same with iPhoto but hate it, so I just use DropBox as the temporary cloud storage. No need and no desire for the Adobe cloud. Cost of Dropbox is nothing.
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Quote Telecaster.
Hmmm, I'd say you're judging something you haven't actually tried. PhotoRAW on my iPad Air does its work as fast, perceptively, as Lr does on my desktop.
Unquote.
Riding a bicycle down hill maybe as fast as driving a car uphill but there isn't in reality a fair comparison. If anyone values their work then the fastest computer with a good monitor is the way to go? I'm with Andrew on this. :)
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This discussions seems to have coalesced around two camps: whether or not tablets are useful for post-processing.
I think you've incorrectly characterised the two camps - the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing if you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer. As you go on to imply, how realistic is it to expect the latter?
Is there anyone else out there who feels that the bigger issue is the way Adobe has done this: forcing LR standalone users to pay $99/year if they wish to use LRm.
Yes, although LrM is a relatively minor symptom of the overall problem of forcing people to switch to the rental model. Rather than a crude effort to force standalone users to subscribe, it's more a case of tipping the balance between subscribing and continuing to buy a perpetual licence.
John
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I think you've incorrectly characterised the two camps - the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing if you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer.
For me, I'd edit that to say: the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing despite the severe time hit to send the work to an inferior product to do the work, then back, not that you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer. I crop and do minor adjustments of iPhone JPEG's from time to time because it's just as fast (often faster) than doing so on the proper computer. But then I probably have only a few hundred if that number of JPEGs on the phone in the first place. 100 raws>remove from card to get onto computer>build smart previews>sync to iPad>Work then transfer back? Huge PITA and so slow, plus forced to use Adobe's cloud when I have a cloud solution setup in the first place.
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It's obviously not meant for when time is tight, so judging it by that criterion is spurious.
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It's obviously not meant for when time is tight, so judging it by that criterion is spurious.
Wasting time is far from spurious. Time is money, at least on this end. Life is short. You can spend as much of your time using the product (or defending it). After all it's your time.
Ever hear this: Better, faster, cheaper. You can have two but not all three.
LrM is not better thanks to the device it makes us use. It's certainly not faster and it's certainly not cheaper. So in a nutshell, I find it a failure. I have better things to do with my time. You? That's your call. If that's spurious, we both need to spend time looking at the definition as you've used it in the above sentence.
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You're just unreasonably negative about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
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You're just unreasonably negative about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
You call it unreasonably negative, I call it accurate. But lets put the question into your court. In what way is LrM better, faster or cheaper than good old LR? What problem does it fix that existed before it's release? I'm negative because I think it's a huge failure to provide anything but eye candy and aimed at the stat's showing the huge number of tablets are out there. Phones will be next of course, not because working with big raws there is neither a better, faster or cheaper place to do so but because of the population of those devices. LrM is basically a solution in search of a problem. And a way to hook users into the cloud and subscription many don't need nor want. If those facts are unreasonably negative, I stand by them. If you wish to dismiss them as facts, by all means just answer the above question about what LrM provides that is better, faster or cheaper than good old LR.
You're just unreasonably positive about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
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Not unreasonably positive at all, just opening my eyes and seeing ways it can be useful, while you're just making false comparisons. A tablet app doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than LR. In what way is an iPhone better, faster or cheaper than a proper camera? Well, maybe cheaper (if you exclude monthly costs?), but it's not just a cliche to say the best camera is the one you've got with you. Same with this - it's there when you're on the train or waiting for the sun.
What problem does it fix? Well, read above posts. For instance, is there any easier way to maintain a portfolio on your iPad? If you use Aperture, even the PhotoStream is messier, but look at the 3-4 portfolio apps most of us seem to acquire - Rube Goldberg would just love all the hard drive publish services and Dropbox routines you need to update a photo. Every time I do this it's a pain, and I'm technically minded-enough to have coded my own publish services or even write an iPad app. The other day I was showing someone how to sync to LrM and he must have asked 3 or 4 times about exporting JPEGs - no, you just click the button next to collections.
So there you are, the ball's sent back. Not that you'll accept that! After 5 versions of LR and double that of Bridge, I certainly don't allow Adobe the 1.0 excuse and think they made a bad mistake in not offering star ratings, at least. But it doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than Lr to be useful.
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Not unreasonably positive at all, just opening my eyes and seeing ways it can be useful, while you're just making false comparisons.
False how? Where is LrM better, faster and cheaper than what we had prior to LrM? Your eyes are open so please fill us (me) in.
A tablet app doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than LR.
The workflow has to be as good or better otherwise what's the point? Where is it better? Where does it save me more time? Where is it (an iPad or phone) a better tool to do the work LrM expects us to do?
For instance, is there any easier way to maintain a portfolio on your iPad?
Yes, using the tools Apple provided for free and based on finished images (or are portfolio images supposed to be works in progress?). Or just post the portfolio on a web page or gallery as we've done for years and view in Safari on the iPad.
So there you are, the ball's sent back.
I think not! You've failed to answer where LrM is better, faster or cheaper, more flexible, accessed on a better tool than what we had before LrM. If you want to use it, go for it. But for a lot of us, it's a huge waste of time and the efforts of the Adobe team as iPhoto still provides vastly faster browsing of images than LR proper and of course it's free. Faster, cheaper. Two out of three for iPhoto, zero out of three for LrM.
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Convenience.... It doesn't need to be better, faster, cheaper.
As I said before, I should just leave the dog chewing on his bone.
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Convenience.... It doesn't need to be better, faster, cheaper.
Right, you're saying it's convenient to copy all the images off the camera card onto a real machine, forced to build Smart Previews, then sync them to the iPad, then sync back again? What part of that workflow is convenient? I submit it isn't convenient just to get the stinkin images onto the iPad before you even access them! LrM is slower, more expensive and offers less convenience just getting the images onto the silly iPad in the first place. LrM=convenience where might I ask?
As I said before, I should just leave the dog chewing on his bone.
Based on your inability to explain how LrM is at all useful, that's a good idea. You're not making false comparisons, you're not making any.
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Oh, I am explaining - you're just not willing to think outside your view of what the app must be. Unfortunately for you, there is space for a review / portfolio workflow, and it can't be much more convenient than a single click that sends the pictures to your tablet.
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Oh, I am explaining.
Where would that be?
I'm suggesting LrM isn't better or faster or cheaper and you don't seem to disagree or as yet haven't countered that. So then you said it's more convenient. OK, explain how when I outlined the steps necessary just to get the images off a card and onto an iPad, and your response is? I asked what problems LR had that LrM fixes, about all I see from you is something about portfolio’s. Seems if that's the case, one would just build a web gallery or export finished images and then upload to the iPad (where would LrM be necessary in that context?).
We can and should agree to disagree but based on feedback on the UtoU forum alone, it seems a lot of people are scratching their heads about just what LrM brings to the party. I've outlined a workflow I believe is correct and necessary just to get images off a camera card onto the Ipad, is that incorrect? If so, what's a faster way to get the images onto the iPad? In what way is the iPad a better tool to do work in LR? We know it's not color managed. We know it's kind of slow. And it appears we need a two way sync just to get from point A to point B and back again. But you suggest that's convenient so I'll ask again, in what way? If you're explaining, I'm missing it and do respect your opinion but haven't seen as yet where and why I'd use this workflow.
This is really easy: you've got say 100 raws from a shoot. Why would you save them to a desktop or laptop, then be forced to build Smart Previews, then wait to have them sync to the iPad? Because you have work to do poolside? You moved all the images onto the desktop, you had to. Why not just do the work then and there? Even if syncing to the iPad was instantanious which it's far from being, what convenient process then takes place on the iPad that could not be done several steps previous after you simply copied the raws to the destkop?
I can keep asking you questions to explain why anyone would follow this workflow and await some answers: what LrM advantages there are?, As speed, quality of editing hardware, cost, inability to avoid the CC cloud, creation of smart previews and now convenient workflow seems to not be part of this process (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?
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C'mon you guys. Everyone knows that LightRoom Mobile is just a stepping stone to get users prepared for the release of LightRoom IC (in camera) where you simply do your edits right in the camera while staring at the tiny touchscreen then dump the results into the cloud, laptop, desktop or other destinations via WiFi, Bluetooth or Aquatooth (if it's raining.) You'll also be able to call people on your DSLR...
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Everyone knows that LightRoom Mobile is just a stepping stone to get users prepared for the release of LightRoom IC (in camera) where you simply do your edits right in the camera while staring at the tiny touchscreen then dump the results into the cloud, laptop, desktop or other destinations via WiFi, Bluetooth or Aquatooth (if it's raining.) You'll also be able to call people on your DSLR...
What's a DSLR and do we need one now? ::)
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What's a DSLR and do we need one now? ::)
It all fits into the mythical common standardized RAW. :-)
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I can keep asking you questions to explain why anyone would follow this workflow and await some answers: what LrM advantages there are?, As speed, quality of editing hardware, cost, inability to avoid the CC cloud, creation of smart previews and now convenient workflow seems to not be part of this process (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?
And yet I do keep answering you, accepting I need to answer on your terms rather than mine.... So, I say what's more convenient than a single click, in those very words, and yet you still claim I've not told you how it's convenient. But I don't need to answer on your terms, do I? It's not as if they aren't loaded, is it? For instance, the CC cloud is a separate and far-bigger issue which we can either love or loathe, and why should one be dragged into debating the use of smart previews (convenience is the user not needing to think about what's happening behind the scenes).
I think the problem here is that you are trying to place LrM too firmly on the critical path. Well, sure, I am one who has always advocated LR in terms of efficiency and managing large numbers of picture, but I think you've also got to allow for other tasks that loop or meander away from that critical path - and LrM is one of those. It's not a key step in the workflow and it shouldn't be judged in those terms. It's for maintaining portfolios, very conveniently, and for doing quick and dirty adjustments when it's convenient. Lightroom for the pub.
John
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I'm suggesting LrM isn't better or faster or cheaper
why anyone would follow this workflow:... what LrM advantages there are?... (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?
You are absolutely correct in asking these questions, digital dog. You may like the answers John is providing, but yoiu are asking the right questions.
The way I see it, LrM is a "nice" addition at this point, but has some serious shortcomings; e.g. so far, I've not found a way to toggle shadow/highlight clipping for edits (which makes it useless for serious editing) and the blacks on the iPad Air are deep grey at best. LrM is a nice way to show photos, though - the best I've found, so far. But at $120/year it becomes an expensive display/portfolio app.
BUT... LrM is not finished. It's only 1.1. At some point, no doubt, we will be able to upload directly from the camera to the tablet into LrM and start tagging and editing like we do on a laptop. yes, it can be done on a laptop, more efficiently right now, but that's changing. There will be a 12" tablet in the next couple of years that will effectively replace a laptop for much of what we do now. My guess is Adobe is getting ready for the eventuality.
LrM is a "toy" right now, but it is the future.
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Toy's the wrong word, but sure, it is for less-critical tasks. That doesn't make it without value though. Just this morning I had an unexpectedly-long wait for the car's tyres to be changed and used the time whittling down a collection of pictures I'd shortlisted for a book. Back home, those pick flags appeared in LR. That's convenient. Better, faster, cheaper - irrelevant, it was there when I wanted.
Also, Adobe aren't asking $120 a year for LrM - that's for LR+PS. LrM is a sweetener, whatever you view of subscription-limited software.
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And yet I do keep answering you, accepting I need to answer on your terms rather than mine....
If provding no answer and no workflow justifications for the design and use of LrM are answers on your own terms, I'll stop asking you questions. I see I'm not the only one here who's awaiting such answers.
So, I say what's more convenient than a single click, in those very words, and yet you still claim I've not told you how it's convenient.
Ignoring the steps and time necessary to get to that one click represent IMHO a very poor answer.
Q: How Do You Get To Carnegie Hall? A: Easy, practice!
And now we'll dismiss the joke and the bit about the real work of practicing...
But I don't need to answer on your terms, do I?
You don't answer the question at all on any terms. The data just magically and quickly finds it's way onto the iPad, it's hardware and software inabilities and the lack of functionality of LrM versus just using a tool that's far better (a Laptop) isn't on your terms in the answer because if you did address these flaws, you'd see they are massive problems in the product's current design architecture. Will it get better? Of course. Is it ready for prime time? Not at all. Even the monetary cost (the subscription) is dismissed because part of that cost additionally provides Photoshop but many people don't need or want Photoshop. Or being forced to build Smart Previews and load them onto a cloud they don't use, another set of points that are not on your terms and thus not under discussion because they are on my terms.
LrM doesn't provide a single useful feature or advantage today that I need and apparently I'm not the only person who feels that way.
LrM isn't a sweetener or even a bad toy, it's a badly implemented product. And as long as it doesn't suck the resources of Adobe such that LR6 is a worthy upgrade, I'll be fine with it. And I'll ignore it until it provides something useful. Today that's not the case and I told you more than once why.
I think the problem here is that you are trying to place LrM too firmly on the critical path.
No, I just want a solution to a problem that isn't a complete waste of my time. LrM 1.0 is just that, a huge waste of my valuable time and I told you why. I also have a vastly better tool to do that work without the restrictions of the tablet (it's a laptop). If like you I had the laptop in the car instead of the iPad, and if I felt that was a great time to be working on my images, I could do that better and faster than you did and that's the rub. The tablet + LrM (1.0) is a sick joke compared to even an older MacBook and LR5.4.
Bottom line for me and I suspect many others: LrM doesn't provide a single compelling advantage over older solutions that don't require the extra time, the use of only the Adobe cloud, a subscription, or a faster and more efficient workflow that existed long before people used tablets. Not one. As I've said, it's at this point a solution in search of a problem. What advances we see in tablets and LrM in the future doesn't change those issues today. At such a time those limitations are lessened, LrM may be a very viable product. Today it's not even a toy, it's a joke built by and large by Adobe marketing. I'm sure I speak for most that I hope that changes. I'd love to be even a bit enthusiastic about the product. The product has to earn that enthusiasm and 1.0 doesn't. End of story.
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Er, I gave you answers. FFS.
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"In what way is LrM better, faster or cheaper than good old LR?"
I'm coming into this conversation late (I was looking for something else and came across this thread) but I can give my two cents worth. However, before I do, I should say that I'm an Adobe employee, albeit one not connected to the Lightroom team (other than pestering them to add features I want!).
For me, LRm is exactly the tool I wanted when I first saw the iPad. That's not to say I think it's perfect but, rather, it already fills the need I have. That need is to deal with the ~90% of my photos that I don't want to keep. LRm makes it easy for me to edit a shoot without being in front of a "real" computer. I sync a "To be edited" collection to the cloud so I'm able to use my iPad *or* my desktop computer to go through the collection. I've always used flags and not stars, so the current lack of star rating isn't an issue. I would like to be able to hide rejected photos from LRm and I know that's a common feature request.
Editing a shoot still takes time but now some of that time can be in situations where I couldn't edit before. For example, I catch the train into our office in San Francisco and I almost never get a seat. Standing with an iPad and editing a shoot works very well; not something I could have done with a laptop.
Lastly, I know that everyone in the Lightroom team definitely considers LRm a 1.0 product and that there are workflows that can be improved. Feedback is very welcome and can be provided here:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family
Regards,
Fergus
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For me, LRm is exactly the tool I wanted when I first saw the iPad. That's not to say I think it's perfect but, rather, it already fills the need I have. That need is to deal with the ~90% of my photos that I don't want to keep.
My beef isn't with what the produce can do, it's how it does it and the time it takes!
I'm out of town shooting and I come back to my hotel with a mere 100 raws from a 5DMII. I want to edit the images as you describe:
1. I save the 100 raws from card to laptop.
2. I import them into Lightroom.
At this point I can start working on the images. With LrM I have to additionally:
3. Build Smart Previews, a task I'd not have to do above. That takes time.
4-5. I have to sync them to the iPad, something I'd not do above. That takes time. Then sync them back to the laptop. That takes time.
6. I have to work on a slow device that's got a smaller display. And I have to avoid using anything in Quick Develop because the device isn't color managed.
At this point between workflow A and workflow B, I've finished what I needed to do in A well before I got the images into the iPad for B. Then I have to sync back.
Further I have to use another cloud service (Adobe's) I don't want to use in both directions.
Editing a shoot still takes time but now some of that time can be in situations where I couldn't edit before
Why couldn't you do the editing on the machine that you sent the initial raws to in the first place? (ideally in this kind of on-the go scenario, a laptop).
Maybe at Adobe or wherever you work with LrM, you have a super fast T1 line. Ever try all this syncing using the WiFi at a La Quinta hotel? Not my idea of a fun workflow.
Lastly, I know that everyone in the Lightroom team definitely considers LRm a 1.0 product and that there are workflows that can be improved.
Can you speed up WiFi for the syncing?
Can you allow me to use DropBox which is the cloud service I already use?
Lastly, I'm someone that started with Photoshop 1.0.7 and LR 1 (actually pre-release). Both products where vastly more useful and well thought out in their 1.0 incarnations than LrM 1.0 by a long shot.
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Why couldn't you do the editing on the machine that you sent the initial raws to in the first place? (ideally in this kind of on-the go scenario, a laptop).
Because he hasn't got it with him. How many friggin' times?
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Because he hasn't got it with him. How many friggin' times?
And if my Aunt had ball's she'd be my Uncle.
Nice job ignoring the real crux of the problems with LrM, getting the images to the iPad and back.
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And if my Aunt had ball's she'd be my Uncle.
Hum, I thought your aunt did have balls :~)
Nice job ignoring the real crux of the problems with LrM, getting the images to the iPad and back.
This is the issue I have with LrM...you CAN'T use it unless you first import images to a laptop or desktop computer and then sync to LrM. So, that completely eliminates the ability to take your iPad and leave your laptop at home when you shoot in the field. That pretty much takes the "mobile" out of LrM for me.
But, hey, it's a 1.0 app. Lightroom had a tone of critics when LR 1.0 first shipped. Over the versions, features and functionality was added to the point now that LR is at 5.4, it has a ton of stuff people wanted when LR 1.0 shipped.
LrM will be useful for some folks in some circumstances. It's not useful for me...yet. But, it's no skin off my nose for the moment. I'll still use LR on a laptop in the field and LR to maintain my full catalog on my desktop. Adding LrM to the CC subscription doesn't take away any usefulness of LR on computers, it just adds some new usefulness to some, on an iPad. We'll see how much the LR team can add new things to LrM in upcoming releases.
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Hum, I thought your aunt did have balls :~)
Not going to ask how you knew that! ::)
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Not going to ask how you knew that! ::)
A little birdie told me...
:~)
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This is the issue I have with LrM...you CAN'T use it unless you first import images to a laptop or desktop computer ...
Hi Jeff,
I'm puzzled, how did you get the images off of your memory card, and into your backup system? No formal desktop environment to view the images on, later?
... and then sync to LrM.
So that's one step to unleach some additional convenience. Is it that hard that it's perceived as one hurdle to many?
Just asking, because as an Android tablet user (and a registered license holder of the LR5.4 perpetual license) I cannot test it myself.
Cheers,
Bart
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I'm puzzled, how did you get the images off of your memory card, and into your backup system? No formal desktop environment to view the images on, later?
Card reader, imported to Lightroom launched on the laptop. I do light image edits and ranking in the field, then when returning from the field, I export the field image catalog and import to the desktop using import from catalog. The images are copied from the external FW drive to my main array on the desktop.
So that's one step to unleach some additional convenience. Is it that hard that it's perceived as one hurdle to many?
Just asking, because as an Android tablet user (and a registered license holder of the LR5.4 perpetual license) I cannot test it myself.
Well, why would I spend the extra time creating a collection (the only thing you can sync to LrM), sync to the cloud (which ain't fast) and then use an iPad to edit, when I've already got my images in LR on the laptop...where I have access to the entire LR feature set (instead of a sub set)?
In order to get the images onto the iPad from Lightroom, they must first be imported into Lightroom. Why not just start editing on the laptop?
That's the disconnect for me...also note that editing the images on the iPad ain't fast...(slower than editing on a laptop). And while I never make final color/tone adjustments on the laptop display, at least it's working in a color managed environment with an accurate display profile.
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?
Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.
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Well, why would I spend the extra time creating a collection (the only thing you can sync to LrM), ...
Ah, I see. Not the most monumental task, but yet another one.
... sync to the cloud (which ain't fast) ...
Which should happen in the background, unattended, maybe even automatic via a hot folder.
... and then use an iPad to edit, when I've already got my images in LR on the laptop...where I have access to the entire LR feature set (instead of a sub set)?
Obviously, when you lug your laptop along all the time, and don't run out of battery power.
This may also be different between geographies, where in the USA people perhaps tend to do almost everything by car (thus having access to storage room and on-board power). Other geographies travel in different ways, lightweight, by bicycle, walk, taxi/bus/tram/metro.
Also, with a growing dependency on electricity and increasing prices, a low power consumption device (multiplied a few million times) like a tablet may grow in popularity. I run my Android tablet (320 PPI) for a couple of days on one charge, including watching some streamed TV/news/documentaries or listen to Audio (streamed from my wireless accesspoint which can also serve as a powerbank for my Phone or Tablet), and performance improves with each generation.
In order to get the images onto the iPad from Lightroom, they must first be imported into Lightroom. Why not just start editing on the laptop?
Do you have all your images on the laptop? Maybe you want to access some earlier work for discussion with someone you are visiting? Besides, having your laptop (with charger and external drive) with you all the time, may be your current MO, but it may change ...
That's the disconnect for me...also note that editing the images on the iPad ain't fast...(slower than editing on a laptop). And while I never make final color/tone adjustments on the laptop display, at least it's working in a color managed environment with an accurate display profile.
Makes sense for your workflow. Others may have a different workflow/travel schedule.
Cheers,
Bart
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?
Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.
Ah, so you attempt to put all your images on the ipad in that possible use case? Because for a lot of us, impossible.
Ah, so you know you're going to be going to the cafe/on a bus/in bed/whatever and you know you'll forget to take the proper tool, so you'll go though this slow process to work on a slow tool rather than just plan ahead and bring the laptop? You put those images on the iPad just in case you forget to take the laptop.
And yet you remembered to put the images in the iPad and take it with you but not the proper tool. I can see this working well next time you go on a shoot for a client and instead of pulling out say a DSLR, you pull out the iPhone: I forget to bring the real camera but here's a backup solution. That will fly.
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"I'm out of town shooting and I come back to my hotel with a mere 100 raws from a 5DMII. I want to edit the images as you describe"
Hey Andrew,
In the situation you describe, I'd stick with my laptop. However, as an amateur, I'm rarely on any type of a deadline. If I'm away for multiple days, I'll take a bunch of memory cards, switch them daily (more to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket than for capacity reasons), perhaps view them on an iPad mini but do all my editing when I get back home.
In this situation, I don't care about the time it takes to build Smart Previews and upload those to the cloud. Relative to the time it takes me to edit the new photos, this extra time is trivial. It also doesn't slow down any initial editing I'm doing on the computer: Smart Previews are being built and uploaded to the cloud in the background. Syncing back to the computer from the iPad is a non-issue, as we're syncing back a tiny amount of data.
I've recently moved my Lightroom collection off my laptop and onto a desktop, so the LRm workflow makes more sense to me. Other comments on your last post (which wasn't directly addressed to me but were relevant):
"Ah, so you attempt to put all your images on the ipad in that possible use case?"
No, not all imaged. I just sync my un-edited collection to the cloud. Sadly, right now it's about 6700 photos as a result of coming back from a trip.
"Ah, so you know you're going to be going to the cafe/on a bus/in bed/whatever and you know you'll forget to take the proper tool, so you'll go though this slow process to work on a slow tool rather than just plan ahead and bring the laptop? "
It's not about forgetting; it's about choice. I often don't want to bring my laptop with me or I'm in a place where it's not usable (e.g., standing on a train). However, I almost always have my iPad with me. Now, any time I've got a few spare minutes, I can use the time to edit my un-edited collection. The time to get the collection into the cloud isn't an issue; my desktop just pushes them there, almost entirely without my intervention.
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that LRm is a perfect. In fact, I'm not even trying to change your opinion that it's a toy. I'm just describing why for me, it's definitely not a toy and has made me more productive.
Regards,
Fergus
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Fergus, you're right, it's about choice and for many, we'll forgo LrM due to the issues I've outlined. If it works for you, great. And this has nothing per se to do with a deadline, I don't like wasting my time (life is short) or jumping through more hoops then I feel is necessary. IF and when LrM can produce the flexibility and speed and options I have with say the JPEG's my iPhone camera produces and syncs (with my choice of cloud services), I might bite.
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?
Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.
Well, if you don't have your laptop with you, how are ya gonna get your raw files into LrM? Because you can load images you capture with your iPad in it's camera roll, but you can't add raw images into LrM via your iPad.
So, if you left your laptop at home, you're out of luck editing stuff in the field in LrM.
Do you get it now? You CAN'T import your raw images into LrM without first importing them to the full LR app and syncing them.
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I've been surprised to learn that a few people are shooting raw+jpeg, bring the jpeg into LrM, then use my Syncomatic plugin to transfer adjustments between the corresponding jpeg and raw files in LrD. It wasn't my suggestion, but in principle it should work.
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Well, if you don't have your laptop with you, how are ya gonna get your raw files into LrM? Because you can load images you capture with your iPad in it's camera roll, but you can't add raw images into LrM via your iPad.
So, if you left your laptop at home, you're out of luck editing stuff in the field in LrM.
Do you get it now? You CAN'T import your raw images into LrM without first importing them to the full LR app and syncing them.
Yeeeessss. And? I import my images, I sync them. ... and now I can play with them on my iPad while I'm waiting for my coffee. Do you get it now?
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I import my images, I sync them. ... and now I can play with them on my iPad while I'm waiting for my coffee. Do you get it now?
Yep,but to get them to LrM requires a real computer...which if you leave it home while shooting in the field means you won't be working on newly shot images in LrM. You can't use LrM in the field without first importing them to the computer...and that kinda defeats the purpose of "mobile" in LrM...LrM is really only Lightroom Kinda Mobile™.
But hey, if you have CC, it's free :~)
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Yep,but to get them to LrM requires a real computer...which if you leave it home while shooting in the field means you won't be working on newly shot images in LrM. You can't use LrM in the field without first importing them to the computer...and that kinda defeats the purpose of "mobile" in LrM...LrM is really only Lightroom Kinda Mobile™.
But hey, if you have CC, it's free :~)
Correct - you have to use a computer at some stage of the proceedings, but once that's done, you're good to go.
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Which was the point I was trying to make...LrM isn't very mobile unless you have a real computer to enable imports in the first place.
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Lightroom Mobile doesn't currently address the field triage workflow. (Jeff, I assume you're already aware of this but perhaps not everyone in this thread is.) There's a blog post about this from Lightroom's product manager and he's eager to get people's feedback on the subject.
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-field-triage-opportunity-for-lr-mobile.html
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What I think would be cool, and entirely possible in the not-to-distant future:
- When in the field, a program runs on a phone that imports the RAWs from the camera(s) into a file repository located on portable storage devices.
- During import, the files would be renamed and duplicated across devices, automatically. The file repository would use industry best practices to ensure file consistency, a generation ahead of what we commonly see in use today.
- The family of photo processing software programs, whether they be a laptop, tablet or phone, use the shared file repository from the portable storage devices. Since file repository contains the edits in XMP, the different programs have no problem working together.
- When returning from the field, the file repository from the portable devices is automatically merged in with the central file repository
None of these steps require the Internet! With the right camera and the right software tools every step could be done wirelessly. For instance, we already find hard drives on the market that have wifi built in. Cellphones that are powerful enough to run desktop class operating systems are pretty close, where you can plug your phone into a monitor and keyboard and have an experience much like a "real" computer. Jason DeRose has implemented dmedia, which solves many problems regarding maintaining massive file repositories in a distributed environment, such as file consistency, file safety etc.
Whoever gets this right could be quite successful. My only fear is that it will take a while for the industry to develop interoperable standards instead of locking people into a workflow that benefits one company.
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Cellphones that are powerful enough to run desktop class operating systems are pretty close,
So, are you proposing color managed cell phones?
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When the day comes that I plug my cellphone into my desktop monitor, yes it better be color managed at the operating system level!
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So, are proposing color managed cell phones?
Do they need to be? If they were, would we edit images on them as we do on the desktop with big, color managed displays? I mean, it be nice but let's look at the tools under discussion here, what we hope to do with them. My iPhone has a tiny keyboard. I'm an old fart and hate typing on it so I'd be hard pressed to write a short email let alone a letter or book. I could hook up a Bluetooth keyboard which would help, I'm still stuck with a tiny display. Transfer those tasks to a 15" MacPro Retina, much easier, I'll do a lot more work of those tasks on that tool. But compare that to a dual 27" NEC setup with the same laptop driving it. I'm going to spend far more time editing images there than the Macbook alone.
Use the right tool for the right job! Not the most popular or most current selling tool. This is the crux of the issue I have with LrM. It could provide very useful functionality if it were actually based on the strengths of the tool it was not (currently) well designed for, a mobile device. I hate typing on my iPhone but the voice recognition works well for a short sentence or two. That addition to the tool makes it more usable and it is that kind of direction LrM has to migrate to. Just putting current desktop/laptop tools on a mobile device isn't enough to make LrM very useable to many of us. And as the attraction of the shiny new toy fades, I suspect many more users too.
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Just putting current desktop/laptop tools on a mobile device isn't enough to make LrM very useable to many of us.
Exactly, well stated.
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Do they need to be? If they were, would we edit images on them as we do on the desktop with big, color managed displays? I mean, it be nice but let's look at the tools under discussion here, what we hope to do with them. My iPhone has a tiny keyboard. I'm an old fart and hate typing on it so I'd be hard pressed to write a short email let alone a letter or book. I could hook up a Bluetooth keyboard which would help, I'm still stuck with a tiny display. Transfer those tasks to a 15" MacPro Retina, much easier, I'll do a lot more work of those tasks on that tool. But compare that to a dual 27" NEC setup with the same laptop driving it. I'm going to spend far more time editing images there than the Macbook alone.
Use the right tool for the right job! Not the most popular or most current selling tool. This is the crux of the issue I have with LrM. It could provide very useful functionality if it were actually based on the strengths of the tool it was not (currently) well designed for, a mobile device. I hate typing on my iPhone but the voice recognition works well for a short sentence or two. That addition to the tool makes it more usable and it is that kind of direction LrM has to migrate to. Just putting current desktop/laptop tools on a mobile device isn't enough to make LrM very useable to many of us. And as the attraction of the shiny new toy fades, I suspect many more users too.
I think phones should be color managed from the factory and guaranteed for life....legend if it costs a significant amount more....we deserve it....and our images deserve it. :-)
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I think phones should be color managed from the factory and guaranteed for life....legend if it costs a significant amount more....we deserve it....and our images deserve it. :-)
Got no problem with that but I don't know that is possible. We know display systems age, they drift etc. That's why we calibrate them on a regular basis. And it be useful if they had some color profile to define what the device produces.
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But when I'm out on my bike, and need to fix something, I use a pocket multi-tool and not my socket set. Likewise, I've had some fun on planes and in hotel rooms editing images with Snapseed on my iPad.
I've actually exported images to my iPad to use Snapseed on them as I got a nicer look that I did from LR. It's a great piece of software.
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You call it unreasonably negative, I call it accurate. But lets put the question into your court. In what way is LrM better, faster or cheaper than good old LR? What problem does it fix that existed before it's release? I'm negative because I think it's a huge failure to provide anything but eye candy and aimed at the stat's showing the huge number of tablets are out there. Phones will be next of course, not because working with big raws there is neither a better, faster or cheaper place to do so but because of the population of those devices. LrM is basically a solution in search of a problem. And a way to hook users into the cloud and subscription many don't need nor want. If those facts are unreasonably negative, I stand by them. If you wish to dismiss them as facts, by all means just answer the above question about what LrM provides that is better, faster or cheaper than good old LR.
My neighbour across the road and his wife go on travels several times a year, taking lots of photos and working on them in LR. Now he does the PP, but the wife also has a say in what shots get used. Currently they use Photosmith as she can choose pics on the iPad sitting in the lounge and he can work on the desktop in the office. LRm would make this task even easier for them.
Take this scenario and replace it with client and photographer, not possible as of yet, but it could be made to work and you have a really useful business tool. It would currently work in a studio where the photographer has a retoucher for example.
Just because you don't have the imagination to see how LRm could be useful Andrew, it doesn't mean it not a great tool for other people's workflows.
Had a play with it myself and was a bit underwhelmed as it didn't do anything for my current needs as v1.0 stands, but give it time and......
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I don't like wasting my time (life is short) or jumping through more hoops then I feel is necessary.
So why have you expended so much time and energy reiterating why LRm doesn't work for you then? ???
Never understood why people have to complain and whinge about software or software features they do not use.
They are like the people who complain about TV shows and are too dim to realise you can turn the damn thing off or to another channel.
So with software...If you don't like something you do not actually use. Don't use it. Then move on. Simples!
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So why have you expended so much time and energy reiterating why LRm doesn't work for you then? ???
Because Andrew is disappointed with LrM and when Andrew is disappointed in something, he tends to broadcast it. :~)
It boils down to tough love...Andrew is hard on companies and products that he's disappointed in. Also note that Andrew does a lot of product testing of both software and hardware, so, his opinion (tough as it sometimes is) continues to be useful for companies.
Also note that Andrew has never met a debate that he doesn't love. He's kinda a pit bull (the Digital Dog should be a clue).
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Just because you don't have the imagination to see how LRm could be useful Andrew, it doesn't mean it not a great tool for other people's workflows.
You're not very good at reading. Or comprehension! This isn't the first time I've had to point this out to you either. If you were good at either, you'd see I've said that mutliple times through out this thread. Case in point:
But by all means run it if you find it useful.
I also told you that if you like it, great, use it.
If you feel doing something twice instead of once is effective, by all means do so.
If you want to use it, go for it.
If it works for you, great.
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Because Andrew is disappointed with LrM and when Andrew is disappointed in something, he tends to broadcast it. :~)
It boils down to tough love...Andrew is hard on companies and products that he's disappointed in. Also note that Andrew does a lot of product testing of both software and hardware, so, his opinion (tough as it sometimes is) continues to be useful for companies.
Also note that Andrew has never met a debate that he doesn't love. He's kinda a pit bull (the Digital Dog should be a clue).
Rabid Dog more like. At the stage where brain function is impaired.
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You're not very good at reading. Or comprehension! This isn't the first time I've had to point this out to you either. If you were good at either, you'd see I've said that mutliple times through out this thread. Case in point:
You are quite the dick Andrew. As usual you take a quote out of the context which gave examples of how LRm can be very useful in my specific response to a specific post of yours. My reply was not in fact to all the other ones you have re-quoted and yet again you have the temerity to witter on about reading ability. Which is deeply ironic as you rant and rant without ever properly answering other people's questions or addressing facts that people write in their posts.
All you've done in this thread is gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how you don't like LRm without adding anything useful. This is why I don't bother with LuLa very often as I get fed up with nonsense like yours.
You don't like LRm we get that, so stop pissing on those to whom it may be useful.
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You are quite the dick Andrew.
Takes one to know one jjj!
All you've done in this thread is gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
Might I suggest then you move on.
This is why I don't bother with LuLa very often as I get fed up with nonsense like yours.
Excellent, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Hi Andrew,
He never said he was leaving, i's apparently you who is having (reading comprehension) issues. Not helpful for your reputation. Just saying, again.
Cheers,
Bart
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Just saying, again.
Right, and as per your post last time, you never provided clarification for it.
As for him leaving, wishful thinking.
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Right, and as per your post last time, you never provided clarification for it.
You're doing it just fine yourself. No help needed with that, and therefore no need for me to waste any of my time repeating all of your above selective, out of context, spiteful, quotes/remarks ...
You don't like LR mobile, fine, we get it, time to move on to something constructive.
Cheers,
Bart
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Time to lock this and move on don't you think?