Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Steve Hendrix on March 31, 2014, 12:53:23 pm
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Since there was so much interest in this, I thought I would share it.
The existing promotion of Credo 40 in Mamiya mount continues through April. But also, you can now purchase a Leaf Credo 40 in Hasselblad H, Contax 645, or Hasselblad V mount for $11,495 through the same period.
https://captureintegration.com/mamiya-credo-40-epic-savings-extended/
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Someone has a bunch of 40mp chips sitting around :D Glad to hear they opened it up to all mounts.
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Hey Steve
According to your linked blog post the savings,actually, extend beyond April
as the date indicated is April 31
:)
Mark
www.marktomalty.com
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Your website says: "Last remaining NEW units. Period." about Aptus II 10.
Does this mean there will be no more new Aptus II 10 made?
Is Aptus II being discontinued?
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Someone has a bunch of 40mp chips sitting around :D Glad to hear they opened it up to all mounts.
Or someone desperately needs to clear some stock to raise cash.
Edmund
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Hey Steve
According to your linked blog post the savings,actually, extend beyond April
as the date indicated is April 31
:)
Mark
www.marktomalty.com
It took me way too long to figure out what you meant. I was thinking - "Through April, means through to the end of April", why would he think it extends past April....." :D
Thanks for the heads up!
April is a great month, so we're always trying to push for an extra day.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Your website says: "Last remaining NEW units. Period." about Aptus II 10.
Does this mean there will be no more new Aptus II 10 made?
Is Aptus II being discontinued?
The wind-down of the Aptus II series was announced in December.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=85180.0
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Your website says: "Last remaining NEW units. Period." about Aptus II 10.
Does this mean there will be no more new Aptus II 10 made?
Is Aptus II being discontinued?
Hi Shlomi -
Yes, this was publicly noted some time back.
There remain a few units per model, in limited mounts (mostly Mamiya and Hasselblad H). If someone wants a brand new Aptus-II, the time to get one is now or never.
Or someone desperately needs to clear some stock to raise cash.
Edmund
Argh - Edmund, come on now, why did you have to go there? ???
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve,
A young man called Michael Dell once told me how he was selling computers from his bedroom to his schoolmates, and decided he wanted to
incorporate, but had no money. And I asked him "what did you do"? And he said "I sold some inventory". I asked what that meant and he explained he put what he had lying around his home on special sale. Actually, his company did pretty well.
Anyway, yes, since then when I see a "sale" I think "somebody wants to clear inventory in a hurry".
Incidentally, I met a few other youngish guys who had larger companies, eg making beige personal computers or business software, but apart from one of them who started out with printer rasterisers and branched out into graphics software, most of those who survived were pretty unpleasant individuals while Michael was, at least at that time a nice guy.
Edmund
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Steve,
A young man called Michael Dell once told me how he was selling computers from his bedroom to his schoolmates, and decided he wanted to
incorporate, but had no money. And I asked him "what did you do"? And he said "I sold some inventory". I asked what that meant and he explained he put what he had lying around his home on special sale. Actually, his company did pretty well.
I met a few other youngish guys who had larger companies, eg making beige personal computers or business software, but apart from one of them who started out with printer rasterisers and branched out into graphics software, most of those who survived were pretty unpleasant individuals while Michael was, at least at that time a nice guy.
Edmund
Who's Michael Dell?
Ok, he-he.
Yes, well thank you for providing some context. You left too many things to the imagination with a line like that!
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Who's Michael Dell?
Ok, he-he.
Yes, well thank you for providing some context. You left too many things to the imagination with a line like that!
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Y'know, before I purchased my P45+, my Phase dealer allowed me to take test images because I bought the CF card from him. I had bought a couple of 1Ds series Canons before so he knew me. I'm not making this up.
So excuse me if I think that reduced prices show the seller wants money.
And yes, see story above, I do know that *some* successful business people are not unpleasant idiots, and that you have a good reputation.
Edmund
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Y'know, before I purchase my P45+, my Phase dealer allowed me to take test images because I bought the CF card from him. I'm not making this up.
So excuse me if I think that reduced prices show the seller wants money.
And yes, see story above, I do know that all successful business people are not unpleasant idiots, and that you have a good reputation.
Edmund
????
I didn't assume you directed this comment: "Or someone desperately needs to clear some stock to raise cash" or any other at me.
I was only thanking you for the context because that comment on the internet with no context sets off way too many minds in unnecessary directions, as in raise cash for what?
"Edmund is desperately selling some of his equipment because he needs money".
People will fill in the blanks in all kinds of ways to a stand alone comment like above. So my thank you for context was sincere in terms of you offering up an example. I don't know what the heck your Phase dealer selling you CF cards had to with anything, but didn't really care, either.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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"Edmund is desperately selling some of his equipment because he needs money".
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Good description of why my Phase back went out the door - I needed the money more desperately than the back :)
Anyway, Steve nothing there was directed at you, have a good day; I hope you will find lots of equipment a new caring home - I'll certainly ask you for a bid first the next time I can afford something :)
Edmund
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Shall we have a whip-round for Edmund?
I'll start with £10
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Shall we have a whip-round for Edmund?
I'll start with £10
I had to look that one up. (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/whip-round.html) :)
Edmund
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Or someone desperately needs to clear some stock to raise cash.
Edmund
When Leica does a promo: "Brilliant business move".
When Leaf does a promo: "Somebody has inventory to clear".
Ok, gotcha.
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When Leica does a promo: "Brilliant business move".
When Leaf does a promo: "Somebody has inventory to clear".
Ok, gotcha.
Synn thank you for your comments.
Actually, I think Leica is clearing inventory too - I believe Steve is offering a $5000K dSLR tradein on the current S model.
As for Leaf, AFAIK they don't exist anymore, although Phase One still prints labels with that tag line.
BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with clearing inventory - in Steve/Doug's case, the buyer gets a solid tested product from a reliable dealer at a good price - everybody's happy. As my story about Dell indicates, clearance prices can have a variety of company-internal reasons that have nothing to do with product "value".
Now, why don't you post another nice image, and make us all happier?
Edmund
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BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with clearing inventory - in Steve/Doug's case, the buyer gets a solid tested product from a reliable dealer at a good price - everybody's happy. As my story about Dell indicates, clearance prices can have a variety of company-internal reasons that have nothing to do with product "value".
That's the right attitude, Edmund. This is going to push some the fence dwellers towards this format.
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As one of those who "don't exist anymore" and who have just finished a very good 1st quarter, I can say that the Credo 40 promo has proven to be very suuceesful as it offers a modern, capable and affordable MF solution for many people. I believe that extending it to all mounts will make it even more successful.
I'll now go back to printing some labels ;-)
BR
Yair
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As one of those who "don't exist anymore" and who have just finished a very good 1st quarter, I can say that the Credo 40 promo has proven to be very suuceesful as it offers a modern, capable and affordable MF solution for many people. I believe that extending it to all mounts will make it even more successful.
I'll now go back to printing some labels ;-)
BR
Yair
Thanks for that post, Yair. Perfect response.
It's kinda sad that some people feel the need to push their personal agendas even in threads that are about sharing some positive news.
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Leaf are selling stock just to make money...er yeah it's called business, that's why they make them, to make money.
If the promo has generated a lot of sales to people that have not gone the mf route, it proves one thing, that the desire to shoot mf is strong and price is a barrier (OK that's two things).
I wonder if the argument of economy of scale would be less of an issue if prices were a lot less. Not a risk Hassy or Phase would want to take, maybe one day their hand will be forced by some other with disruptive intent. A Blackmagic style company for still shooters.
I wonder what it would take to kickstart a simple mf camera with an adaptable lens mount to take all kinds of legacy glass, one that just did the basics. No inbuilt meter, just aperture shutter speed and iso. An adaptable box with a sensor.
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It would probably take somebody at sony to make a decision to make a bigger than 35mm mirrorless camera with a wide/short lens throat.
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I can say that the Credo 40 promo has proven to be very suuceesful as it offers a modern, capable and affordable MF solution for many people. I believe that extending it to all mounts will make it even more successful.
BR
Yair
You mean lower prices may generate better sales? What a pleasant surprise! Maybe you should experiment more to test this novel economic theory.
I do wonder whether the recent change of ownership of Phase is responsible for this unexpected insight ...
Edmund
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Edmund,
The promo began on January 30 and the Silverfleet announcement was February 18.
Phase One last year lowered the price of the P40+ bundle to be around the same price about a year back and it proved to be a successful promotion which led to refurbished P40+ bundles being offered by us in the $11k range.
This seems to be a nice price point to allow people to get into medium format and if you already own a medium format body it is even more attractive at $11,495.
It also fits into the business model that Henrick explained in his interview recently of having two product lines with different features and price points.
Also one of the biggest advantages is being able to use the Credo 40 as a trade in later towards a different Phase One or Mamiya Leaf Credo while preserving your original investment.
So I really do not understand the complaining and speculation about lowering pricing . Yes it is to sell more units and make it more available to more photographers. Whats wrong with that since the biggest gripe is MF is too expensive?
Lance
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Most cameras steadily drop in price over their retail lifespan, look at the price of DSLR's. Something that is £2700 at launch will drop to £1800 over several months. It's the same with lenses. I'm struggling to see why it should be any different with MFD backs? New products and innovations will be made available all the time and this has an affect on pricing. What was the price history on a P25? They must have halved over their fairly long sales lifespan.
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Edmund,
The promo began on January 30 and the Silverfleet announcement was February 18.
Phase One last year lowered the price of the P40+ bundle to be around the same price about a year back and it proved to be a successful promotion which led to refurbished P40+ bundles being offered by us in the $11k range.
This seems to be a nice price point to allow people to get into medium format and if you already own a medium format body it is even more attractive at $11,495.
It also fits into the business model that Henrick explained in his interview recently of having two product lines with different features and price points.
Also one of the biggest advantages is being able to use the Credo 40 as a trade in later towards a different Phase One or Mamiya Leaf Credo while preserving your original investment.
So I really do not understand the complaining and speculation about lowering pricing . Yes it is to sell more units and make it more available to more photographers. Whats wrong with that since the biggest gripe is MF is too expensive?
Lance
Who is complaining? What a good idea! Please let's have more of the same!
I'm sorry if I may have sounded my grouchy self at the beginning, but I really think that lower prices and increased sales are wonderful for everyone involved in MF.
Edmund
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Who is complaining? What a good idea! Please let's have more of the same!
I'm sorry if I may have sounded my grouchy self at the beginning, but I really think that lower prices and increased sales are wonderful for everyone involved in MF.
Edmund
Yeah. MF Digital gets a BEATING in this forum. It is constantly being challenged to an inch of its existence and relevance. This Forum crowd is tough. Very tough. I too questioned a lot of things about MF Digital before taking the plunge. Bottom line it is great to have the choice of a larger format with different characteristics. That includes the choice in optics and bodies also (besides the backs). Imagine if there were no digital cameras with sensors larger than 24x36mm and all we had available were integrated digital camera bodies (no backs). That would suck for a lot of people that want something different.
It is awesome to have a lower priced (New) MF Digital option. Heck if I were PhaseOne I would go lower. They can make it up in lens sales (at lower prices also). Entry level is key to having more people commit to a system.
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Yeah. MF Digital gets a BEATING in this forum. It is constantly being challenged to an inch of its existence and relevance. This Forum crowd is tough. Very tough. I too questioned a lot of things about MF Digital before taking the plunge. Bottom line it is great to have the choice of a larger format with different characteristics. That includes the choice in optics and bodies also (besides the backs). Imagine if there were no digital cameras with sensors larger than 24x36mm and all we had available were integrated digital camera bodies (no backs). That would suck for a lot of people that want something different.
It is awesome to have a lower priced (New) MF Digital option. Heck if I were PhaseOne I would go lower. They can make it up in lens sales (at lower prices also). Entry level is key to having more people commit to a system.
I agree - let's hope Hasselblad and Leica get this invitation - Pentax have already announced they're coming to the party!
Edmund
Update: I just got an email from Capture Integration, for a really extensive Leica S tradein program. Looks like the party is getting underway.
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Leaf are selling stock just to make money...er yeah it's called business, that's why they make them, to make money.
If the promo has generated a lot of sales to people that have not gone the mf route, it proves one thing, that the desire to shoot mf is strong and price is a barrier (OK that's two things).
I wonder if the argument of economy of scale would be less of an issue if prices were a lot less. Not a risk Hassy or Phase would want to take, maybe one day their hand will be forced by some other with disruptive intent. A Blackmagic style company for still shooters.
I wonder what it would take to kickstart a simple mf camera with an adaptable lens mount to take all kinds of legacy glass, one that just did the basics. No inbuilt meter, just aperture shutter speed and iso. An adaptable box with a sensor.
I've been beaten to it, not a cheap option but rather desirable. http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/cameras/fps/use/ALPA_FPS_internal-use-only_small/ALPA_captions_designpreis_g_rgb.pdf
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As for Leaf, AFAIK they don't exist anymore, although Phase One still prints labels with that tag line.
I've been to their office and saw the people - they still exist.
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I've been to their office and saw the people - they still exist.
Of course, and they brought some serious tech to phase after being acquired. It´s a pitty they are regognized now as the poor man´s phase which does not meet the facts in my opinion. YMMV.
Cheers,
Ulf
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I don't think the Credo is inferior to IQ, and the few missing features are not very significant.
I prefer the Credo buttonless UI which is like the Nexus.
It is my impression though, that there isn't much left of the "secret sauce" that used to be in the color rendition algorythm. It would appear that Phase took all that was good, removed all that was bad, and now the differences between the two brands are very slight. It wouldn't really make sense to do it any differently.
So IMO you could say the soul is dead but the body is alive.
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So IMO you could say the soul is dead but the body is alive.
Ok, they've followed the usual path of innovators and turned into ... just another niche-competent and profitable mainstream zombie.
Edmund
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ulf,
I don't know any particular facts about Leaf or Phase, but I agree the Leaf to me had a nice interface and Leaf always had an exceptional film like look.
If it wasn't for the lc10 (which was eventually fixed) I would have kept my Aptus forever, but my schedule meant my workflow had to be improved.
If I was buying a back I would go with Leaf, but I wanted a Leica, though I can still process out an older Leaf file and am amazed at how pretty it is.
Edmund,
Sometimes you say some things that floor me.
Leaf was always the 'photographer's' digital back, and I would be surprised if Phase didn't use Leaf's knowledge of Dalsa and color to improve all of the products.
Once again I don't know the particular facts about any camera company, but I do know that I like the people at Leaf a lot. They really cared about their product, never acted smug, but had great pride in what they produced. They also were one of those companies that wrote their own music, didn't do cover band, and stood behind their equipment.
IMO
BC
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Yes, Leaf, was one of the greatest innovators in digital photography. Now they seem to be a sub-brand of Phase One. I'm not saying they are in any way substandard, or defective, I'm saying they were innovative brands but *today* they are vanilla. What innovative feature has been released of late on a Leaf branded back but not on a P1 branded back?
As for not acting smug, yes, Leaf had pride in their work, while C1 were really good at business. Reminds me of another company called Microsoft, who were historically technologically competent, but also spectacularly good at business. BTW, some guy who owns an IQ180 or 280 or something was complaining to me that the Phase software now feels like it's done by Microsoft.
Edmund
Edmund,
Sometimes you say some things that floor me.
Leaf was always the 'photographer's' digital back, and I would be surprised if Phase didn't use Leaf's knowledge of Dalsa and color to improve all of the products.
Once again I don't know the particular facts about any camera company, but I do know that I like the people at Leaf a lot. They really cared about their product, never acted smug, but had great pride in what they produced. They also were one of those companies that wrote their own music, didn't do cover band, and stood behind their equipment.
IMO
BC
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Yes, Leaf, was one of the greatest innovators in digital photography. Now they seem to be a sub-brand of Phase One. I'm not saying they are in any way substandard, or defective, I'm saying they were innovative brands but *today* they are vanilla. What innovative feature has been released of late on a Leaf branded back but not on a P1 branded back?
Edmund
I don't see any real innovation in photography, since the RED 4k Raw camera, or maybe in 43 mirrorless cameras with evf, face detection, etc.
But, I do see Leaf going the direction as all products, a refinement of the brand.
Nothing new about that. A Iphone is an Ipod with a phone, a Ipad an large I phone without the phone,etc. etc.
Though I could easily argue this the other way when it comes to innovation.
I think Phase IQ backs are a refinement of the Leaf Brand.
Full screen touch screen (Leaf)
Dalsa Sensor (Leaf)
Improved skin tones and film like look (Leaf)
So when people think that Leaf is the unloved stepchild of Phase I'd say Phase just copied Leaf's playbook.
IMO
BC
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I don't see any real innovation in photography, since the RED 4k Raw camera, or maybe in 43 mirrorless cameras with evf, face detection, etc.
But, I do see Leaf going the direction as all products, a refinement of the brand.
Nothing new about that. A Iphone is an Ipod with a phone, a Ipad an large I phone without the phone,etc. etc.
Though I could easily argue this the other way when it comes to innovation.
I think Phase IQ backs are a refinement of the Leaf Brand.
Full screen touch screen (Leaf)
Dalsa Sensor (Leaf)
Improved skin tones and film like look (Leaf)
So when people think that Leaf is the unloved stepchild of Phase I'd say Phase just copied Leaf's playbook.
IMO
BC
All true. But not copied, just bought out.
BTW, there used to be a joke in the english press that when your company is going through a mutually beneficial merger with another company, the only thing worth knowing is whether yours is "Papa" or Mama".
Edmund
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So to sum it up, people who are or were customers of Leaf are satisfied with the brand while people who never were and never will be customers of leaf have complaints.
If I were Yair, I'd rest easy.
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So to sum it up, people who are or were customers of Leaf are satisfied with the brand while people who never were and never will be customers of leaf have complaints.
If I were Yair, I'd rest easy.
We all agree that some people always have complaints :)
Have you met Yair? I think he is based in London. Very laid back :)
Edmund
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I don't see any real innovation in photography, since the RED 4k Raw camera, or maybe in 43 mirrorless cameras with evf, face detection, etc.
But, I do see Leaf going the direction as all products, a refinement of the brand.
Nothing new about that. A Iphone is an Ipod with a phone, a Ipad an large I phone without the phone,etc. etc.
Though I could easily argue this the other way when it comes to innovation.
I think Phase IQ backs are a refinement of the Leaf Brand.
Full screen touch screen (Leaf)
Dalsa Sensor (Leaf)
Improved skin tones and film like look (Leaf)
So when people think that Leaf is the unloved stepchild of Phase I'd say Phase just copied Leaf's playbook.
IMO
BC
I think we can all agree that Leaf had some good things going, and that which was good was incorporated by Phase into all their products.
Also we have to remember there were some very serious problems with the Leaf products, that it would seem Phase solved them one by one, until now there are pretty much none in the integrated product(s?). I am not at all sure that left to their own devices Leaf would have solved all of these problems.
Some say that Phase was a computer company and not a photographer's company, but what they did is solve and streamline all the "computer" problems that were with the Leaf products and now there are none, so I don't think it's such a bad thing that they are computer oriented or business oriented. For instance, Leaf had very little interest in Windows users, who, whether you like it or not, are the vast majority of users. Colors that were very pretty but totally inaccurate was another problem nobody wanted to talk about. A nightmare of wired communication ended in what would appear as a perfect communication protocol.
I don't know the numbers, but it would seem most if not all Leaf employees still have a job, and no immediate plans have been made public to terminate the old operation, some four years after the acquisition (not a merger). That is very unusual to anyone familiar with IP based acquisitions. However I would insist that the two brands are very similar right now. What is the reason to keep a second operation going, I do not know - perhaps there are a couple of valued engineers working there who refused to relocate and are working on future technologies? Maybe promises were made? Will this second operation still be active in ten years is not very clear to me.