Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on March 04, 2014, 05:57:29 pm
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Hello my friends,
I am glad to report that the new system is finally getting together following the arrival of the Mac pro 2 weeks ago and the set up of the Promise Pegasus2 R8 32GB.
- mac pro 2013 specs: 8 core, 1GB SSD, 64 GB ram, 2xD700
- promise pegasus2 R8: 8x4TB configured in Raid6 (24TB usable)
- nas Qnap 4 drive: 4x4TB in Raid 5.
The system seems much faster per the first tests I am doing, in particular on the disk side compared to my previous NAS solutions.
A quick check with Blackmagic Disk speed tests shows:
- NAS from Mac pro 2013: write speed around 90 MB/S, read speed around 100 MB/s
- Pegasus2 from Mac pro 2013: write speed around 550 MB/S, read speed around 500 MB/s
- Internal SSD Mac pro 2013: write speed around 960 MB/S, read speed around 900 MB/s
I did try to open a few 2+ GB files in PS6 and I get open times around 5 seconds that seem aligned with the benchmark disk speed. Opening the same file from the NAS took about 25 sec.
I am glad to see these results, because the analysis of my workflow crearly shows mass storage disk access speed to be the main bottleneck in terms of time spent waiting:
- generation of raw previews,
- open/save of large files in PS,
- open/save of raw/computed files in pano softwares,
- ...
Thunderbolt does seem to deliver on its promises in terms of real world speed. It had been 6.5 years I had not changed workstation, although I had upgraded the previous mac pro little by little.
More simple tests to follow including an end to end back from a shoot till pano completion time comparison with previous setup.
Some other comments:
- Full initialization of the 24TB Raid6 partition on the Pegasus2 took nearly... 24 hours...
- By default, the pop up blocker is activated in the latest version of Safari shipping with OX 10.9, which prevents the promise utility from reporting on successful completion of the initialization process. Since the initialization does not include a partition formating, the disk can still not be seen by OSX even after a successful initialization... which led me to mistakingly think that the initialization had failed. Just a warning for Promise users. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard,
Interesting - FWIW
I just ran the same test, out of curiosity, on a mac-mini i7 2.6 (2013) - 256 ssd - 16mb ram, connected via thunderbolt to a lacie 4TB raid1
raid - write speed around 140 MB/S, read speed around 144 MB/s
ssd - write speed around 410 MB/S, read speed around 455 MB/s
That's almost a 4x increase on the external RAID and double on the internal SSD!
Enjoy the new babe !
All best
M
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Bernard,
Interesting - FWIW
I just ran the same test, out of curiosity, on a mac-mini i7 2.6 (2013) - 256 ssd - 16mb ram, connected via thunderbolt to a lacie 4TB raid1
raid - write speed around 140 MB/S, read speed around 144 MB/s
ssd - write speed around 410 MB/S, read speed around 455 MB/s
That's almost a 4x increase on the external RAID and double on the internal SSD!
Enjoy the new babe !
Interesting. You are probably limited by the speed of individual drives in raid 1.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'll be curious to see how you get on with your new kit Bernard. Though having been extremely impressed by the speed of the recent MacBook Pros when doing heavy duty video editing, I'm wondering what the point of the new Mac Pro is for many people is.
For me, my MacPro's main advantage is that it neatly contains six hard drive and is expandable via PCI slots. Plus it functions as a handy foot rest for my standing desk :) - [which I also sit at]. But it's actually slower than my very slightly younger MBP despite having six more cores and 3x the memory, both are upgraded as much as they can be.
Functionally, there's not much difference between a Mac laptop, a Mac Mini and a Mac desktop any more, other than speed/power as there's no expandability in them. So I'm going to wait for the next MBP upgrade and see how they stack up for my needs Vs the new MP.
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I'll be curious to see how you get on with your new kit Bernard.
Functionally, there's not much difference between a Mac laptop, a Mac Mini and a Mac desktop any more, other than speed/power as there's no expandability in them.
Yes. For me RAM and GPU are the main reasons for going with the pro, but I tend to handle larger files than average, so my needs are pretty specific.
I was already not using the internal disks of my Pro 2,1 besides one for scratch, and the new SSD of the Pro should be much faster even when shared with the book drive.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard,
Am I right in assuming the Pegasus 2 has it's own built-in raid controller and how many of those disks, in your configuration, are striped - 5 ? Also, in your opinion, how much of a difference in throughput is due to Thunderbolt2 v 'plain old' Thunderbolt.
All best,
M
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The R/W speeds of your setup do look wonderfully fast Bernard.
How much of a difference is there in real world usage, compared to your previous setup?
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The R/W speeds of your setup do look wonderfully fast Bernard.
How much of a difference is there in real world usage, compared to your previous setup?
Seems much faster (Helicon, C1 Pro,...), but I need to put a figure on that.
However I am running into problems under 10.9.2 with my 2 screens set up, cannot get OSX to set the Dell 30 inch at full resolution... :-(
Cheers,
Bernard
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I had heard there are issues with the new MP, in particular with monitors. I can't link to the review from the UK's Mac Format magazine as it's not online yet.
But it was very critical for a Mac magazine and basically said to wait for issues to be sorted before buying, but then gave it 4 stars. !?!
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I had heard there are issues with the new MP, in particular with monitors. I can't link to the review from the UK's Mac Format magazine as it's not online yet.
But it was very critical for a Mac magazine and basically said to wait for issues to be sorted before buying, but then gave it 4 stars. !?!
In fact, the problem was probably me not using the right kind of mini-display port -> DVI adapter. I had not realised that a powered dual link adapter was required.
I do now have one on order, I hope it will fix the issue.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Could you post a link to that powered adapter?
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I've been wondering how to do Thunderbolt to dual DVI monitors. Not been able to find anything online as of yet.
Surely that is what you need as there is no minidisplay port?
Or do you have to go TB to MiniDisplay to DVI?
BTW the power buttons location seems really dumb and awkward to access. I find the old one a bit tricky as I have my MP sideways under desk and there's not enough tactile feedback to find it easily by touch.
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Could you post a link to that powered adapter?
I bought the apple one: http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B001IF252C/ref=pe_492632_159100282_TE_item
It seems that there were early report of issues, but it seems more recent versions are ok. I'll let you know whether it works with my Dell 3007 or not.
It will soon be my second screen since I have just ordered a Nec PA302W-BK.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Any links in English. I've forgotten my katakana and never got around to learning kanji. :)
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Any links in English. I've forgotten my katakana and never got around to learning kanji. :)
Pfff... I had placed such high expectations on you... ;)
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB571Z-DisplayPort-Dual-Link-Adapter/dp/B001IF252C
Cheers,
Bernard
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Pfff... I had placed such high expectations on you... ;)
I did learn to write and write katakana in a week along with some basic Japanese. Which was surprisingly easy, albeit with the aid of the best language book I have ever come across. :)
But that was a long time ago and I didn't use it for long enough for it to stick. :(
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I did learn to write and write katakana in a week along with some basic Japanese. Which was surprisingly easy, albeit with the aid of the best language book I have ever come across. :)
But that was a long time ago and I didn't use it for long enough for it to stick. :(
Nice effort! :)
Yep, Japanese is in fact pretty easy to learn.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Easy to learn, but very hard to master I gather.
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http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB571Z-DisplayPort-Dual-Link-Adapter/dp/B001IF252C
Yes, I purchased one of those but did not look at the specs carefully enough. I thought 'Dual Link' meant that there were two DVI ports - thus allowing what I wanted: a single TB port/connector that would drive two monitors via DVI connections. Alas, that is not the case, the duality is: one DVI port and one paltry USB2 port :'(
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I think a lot of people have been caught out by that Chris.
Apple's ever changing video connecters are a joke that is not particularly funny.
The Lightning connector isn't much better as attaching my 17 month old iPad to things is still tricky. And apparently they are starting to have corrosion problem too. Not sure why Apple cannot make good cables, particularly at the prices they charge.
Saw this the other day in article re corroding connectors.
(http://gadgetizor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/apple-ipod-connector.png)
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And to add insult to injury, my brand new 18 TB Promise Pegasus 2 R6 just reported a DEAD disk after 5 hours of use.
This required a ten hour re-build of Disk 1 in the 0 slot of a RAID 5 setup
The drive seems to be working fine again but one's confidence in the system is seriously rocked but that sort of ocurrence.
Promise Tech support is by emailed reports generated out of the machine. Response time is 24 hours.... ::)
(I think a 10-12 hour time difference from EST accounts for half of that)
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:(
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However I am running into problems under 10.9.2 with my 2 screens set up, cannot get OSX to set the Dell 30 inch at full resolution... :-(
Hopefully 10.9.3 (now in beta) will help: high resolution graphics output and audio are the focus areas.
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And to add insult to injury, my brand new 18 TB Promise Pegasus 2 R6 just reported a DEAD disk after 5 hours of use.
This required a ten hour re-build of Disk 1 in the 0 slot of a RAID 5 setup
The drive seems to be working fine again but one's confidence in the system is seriously rocked but that sort of ocurrence.
Promise Tech support is by emailed reports generated out of the machine. Response time is 24 hours.... ::)
Really sorry to hear this. It is true that once you start to have problems with a unit just after arrival, it may be better to return it right away before committing data to it...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard you are likely correct.
However, there is a two year warranty and the reporting feature of the drive shows only one unrepeated anomaly.
Interestingly, there was also a coincidental firmware update that the tech support folk seem to suggest may have cured the problem...
Vamos a ver. I have been using the drive in a non-critical mirror situation to my old MacPro - since I still have to wait a few weeks for the new BlackMac.
If it happens again, the individual drive will go back and I have also ordered two identical drives as potential replacements. I actually rather regret not having ordered the eight drive R8 model since it is easier to set aside one or two drives as 'spares'.
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If it happens again, the individual drive will go back and I have also ordered two identical drives as potential replacements. I actually rather regret not having ordered the eight drive R8 model since it is easier to set aside one or two drives as 'spares'.
Indeed. I am fully using the 8 drives of the R8 in Raid6 but also have 2 spare drives.
My backup unit is a 10 bay NAS also in raid6 with 2 hot spares and 2 additional spare disks.
I find it convenient to have live storage and back with the exact same available capacity.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Sounds like a sensible arrangement Bernard, though what's the physical separation of the storage?
I'm thinking of placing backup in our outhouse as it's separate enough from rest of house to be safe in case of a fire.
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Sounds like a sensible arrangement Bernard, though what's the physical separation of the storage?
I'm thinking of placing backup in our outhouse as it's separate enough from rest of house to be safe in case of a fire.
I envy you guys that do post in one location.
With thunderbolt, fw 800 machines in each of our facilities and of course working on location, choosing the correct interface for drives is somewhat of a nightmare.
The large 8 tb G drives I travel with don't have any connection but thunderbolt, which obviously won't work on a previous generation mac pro, which is a shame because we had promax trick out the lastest silver macpro for fcp 7 and divinci 8, along with a breakout box for hdmi monitors.
So to move to the older macpros from the new Imac thunderbolt machines we use requires a the ability to clone a drive to fw 800 for working, then back to a thunderbolt machine for backup.
Given the fact that the project we're wrapping up takes about 12 terbytes of video and still data, edits, transcodes and effects makes moving around a nightmare.
If I didn't have hundreds of terabytes of fw800 drives in data, I guess I would just jump to the future and write a huge check and start duplicating, but that's a nightmarish way to work and would take weeks of a single person just copying and cataloging and carrying a NAS server on a plane every month really isn't an option.
Anyway, for backup I also use identical drives, set up with syncro x and every bit of downtime, (when there is a slight amount of downtime) we sync the drives to have working clones that are then put off site.
Problem is with the different interfaces and the multiple locations I can easily have a 12 terabyte project that baloons to 60 or more terabytes to have safe backups.
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Because of this my question on the new macpro. Has everyone just copied and discarded their older fw 800 drives and moved them to thunderbolt or usb 3 or have they found a way to make fw 800 drives work reliably on the black macpro?
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I know wishing anything from apple is screaming in the middle of the ocean, but I'd give anything if when apple changes interfaces they'd continue with at least one port for some legacy drive like fw800.
IMO
BC
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I purchased a Sonnet Thunderbolt PCIe card box and tricked it out with inexpensive eSATA/FW/USB3 cards. That way I will continue to use the old drives with the new BlackMac - when it eventually arrives.
In the meantime I have migrated all my internal MacPro drives, eSATA RAID and other old FW drives to the Pegasus using the TB port on my MacBook Pro.
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In the meantime I have migrated all my internal MacPro drives, eSATA RAID and other old FW drives to the Pegasus using the TB port on my MacBook Pro.
How did you do this. Set the older macpro as a disk drive?
Also does anyone know of a way to use a thunderbolt drive on the silver macpros?
Thanks
BC
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How did you do this. Set the older macpro as a disk drive?
Also does anyone know of a way to use a thunderbolt drive on the silver macpros?
My eSATA raid is a mirror/backup of the raid in my old MacPro - so it simply meant plugging the eSATA raid into the new Sonnet box and then in turn copying the eSATA raid onto the Pegasus. I don't believe there is a way to get TB on an old MacPro.
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My eSATA raid is a mirror/backup of the raid in my old MacPro - so it simply meant plugging the eSATA raid into the new Sonnet box and then in turn copying the eSATA raid onto the Pegasus. I don't believe there is a way to get TB on an old MacPro.
Thanks Chris. Yea I've tried everything but voodoo to get data from a tb to an older macpro, not possible.
The New Macpro I'll probably buy, just because of the size factor but right now I'll wait to see what shakes out.
We carry 12 to 16 tb from all of our facilities working on a this project that is now in final stages.
It's a nightmare going from a tb machine to a desktop with fw and usb, so there is a lot of copying of data, including syncro backups in each city.
BC
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since I still have to wait a few weeks for the new BlackMac.
Which config did you end up ordering?
Jim
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Which config did you end up ordering?
from the spec page:
3.0GHz 8-core with 25MB of L3 cache
• 32GB (4 x 8GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
• 512GB PCIe-based flash storage
• Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
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Thanks Chris. Yea I've tried everything but voodoo to get data from a tb to an older macpro, not possible.
It's a nightmare going from a tb machine to a desktop with fw and usb, so there is a lot of copying of data, including syncro backups in each city.
I believe you can't simply add Thunderbolt via a PCI card as it is tied up with chip/motherboard etc. Which is great for Apple/Intel as you are forced to upgrade.
Anyway have you tried gigabit ethernet as that can be pretty fast if moving stuff between machines?
There's also this (http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD464ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-firewire-adapter), but like many Apple cables it gets very poor reviews.
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For me what makes the most sense is:
Silver MacPro > backup (eSATA or NAS) > new BlackMac Pro storage medium (thunderbolt).
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I envy you guys that do post in one location.
I'm not always at home. ;)
On last road trip I used a MBP with an eSATA connector to an Icybox enclosure with removable mirrored drives - removable so that they can be stored apart from each other. Other times small FW drives do the trick.
I don't shoot the amount data you do and tend to travel a lot lighter.
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I had heard there are issues with the new MP, in particular with monitors. I can't link to the review from the UK's Mac Format magazine as it's not online yet.
Bernard / Jeremy
This came up on my rss feed - may be of interest to you
" there is something seriously unstable with multiple display support in OS X 10.9.2:"
http://www.macperformanceguide.com/blog/2014/20140307_1-2013MacPro-dual-displays.html
M
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This is why I never buy v1 of any Apple product. I prefer v3+ as from experience, they actually work.
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Bernard / Jeremy
This came up on my rss feed - may be of interest to you
" there is something seriously unstable with multiple display support in OS X 10.9.2:"
http://www.macperformanceguide.com/blog/2014/20140307_1-2013MacPro-dual-displays.html
Thanks, I have seen this.
I hope that 10.9.3 will fix all that.
Cheers,
Bernard
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10.9.3 in in late beta testing at moment I believe.
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For poor cables try using Sugru if it's available where you are. It's a pliable compound that can be hand moulded around the weak areas, it sets to a hard rubber like compound in 24 hours.
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For poor cables try using Sugru if it's available where you are. It's a pliable compound that can be hand moulded around the weak areas, it sets to a hard rubber like compound in 24 hours.
Useful stuff that. I've seen it used to do some neat cable tweaks/mods like making a straight connecter be right angled, but not thought about it for simply fixing a crap design. Duh!
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This thread on Pegasus/TB/nMP (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1714848) may be of interest.
And someone realised that he can make his new MP double up as a cat feeder..
(http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=464374&thumb=1&d=1394508890)
.....a use I hadn't thought of but maybe should consider as I have a bit of an infestation problem. :-\
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That last picture reminds me of this one
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Hell & Tarnation. Thread has been cat-jacked!!
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That last picture reminds me of this one
My cats are obviously smarter. - not a phrase I use often it has to be said.
Hell & Tarnation. Thread has been cat-jacked!!
Sssh! Don't tell Michael.
Though I'm surprised they aren't used more by the pixel peepers. Because cat fur and eyes are really good tests of image quality.
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Cats on Monitors: lol.
Though I'm surprised they aren't used more by the pixel peepers. Because cat fur and eyes are really good tests of image quality.
Uh-oh.
:)
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Don't miss this point though, which may have been overlooked with the cat stuff.
This thread on Pegasus/TB/nMP (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1714848) may be of interest.
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...This thread on Pegasus/TB/nMP (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1714848) may be of interest.
So far I have not experienced any sleep problems with the Pegasus2.
It seems most obedient to the MBP settings.
That being said, when I am working, I never check the the Energy Saver setting: 'Put hard disks to sleep when possible'. Honestly I cannot imagine why anyone would want to since the power required to spin up the disks is considerably more than that used to keep them spinning; + spin-up is noisy + you sit and wait...
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Also, spin up and down is physically hardest on the disk drives.
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Yes, I purchased one of those but did not look at the specs carefully enough. I thought 'Dual Link' meant that there were two DVI ports - thus allowing what I wanted: a single TB port/connector that would drive two monitors via DVI connections. Alas, that is not the case, the duality is: one DVI port and one paltry USB2 port :'(
didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was clarified.
Dual link has to do with the bandwidth of the connection, not a dvi link and a usb link. The usb connector is to power the circuitry in the converter. A dual link converter is required for resolution differences of larger monitors.
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Thank-you for that Wayne - just helped me solve the problem of my old 30" Cinema Display not 'showing' the correct available resolutions is System Preferences/ Display on my new MacPro which arrived yesterday.
With a standard MiniDisplay to DVI adapter, the available screen resolutions were way too small - as soon as I switched that adapter out for the Dual Link variety, the screen resolutions all came back...
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Honestly I cannot imagine why anyone would want to since the power required to spin up the disks is considerably more than that used to keep them spinning; + spin-up is noisy + you sit and wait...
Can't be any noisier that my IcyBox eSATA enclosure. Makes a terrible racket, so I only keep stuff not accessed very often on there.